The "Best" Dry Martini

[paulraphael]

2 hours ago, weinoo said:

 

I'm pretty wed to Beefeater or Plymouth for Martinis. 

 

I like Plymouth too. Haven't tried the Navy Strength recommended in the article. Which version do you prefer?

[weinoo]

1 hour ago, paulraphael said:

 

I like Plymouth too. Haven't tried the Navy Strength recommended in the article. Which version do you prefer?

 

While I have both, I generally reach for the non-Navy for Martinis.

[gfweb]

I like gin to taste like gin. So Beefeater, Gordon's , Tanqueray.

 

I'm sure that there are others.

[JAZ]

We recently ordered martinis at a restaurant that had Boodles as their well gin. It'd been ages since I'd had it, but it makes a nice martini.

[Dave the Cook]

6 hours ago, weinoo said:

 

While I have both, I generally reach for the non-Navy for Martinis.

 

It stretches the definition of "martini" a tiny bit, but we liked a cocktail served at Holeman & Finch: Royal Dock (a Navy-strength gin mentioned in the article that started off this discussion) mixed 2:1 with Lillet blanc, a dash of orange bitters and an orange-twist garnish. Since Royal Dock is exceptionally hard to come by here, we've been substituting the high-proof Plymouth. The Royal Dock is a more strictly London gin, so it's a bit sharper than Plymouth, but the latter works just fine. 

[Duvel]

4 minutes ago, Dave the Cook said:

 

It stretches the definition of "martini" a tiny bit, but we liked a cocktail served at Holeman & Finch: Royal Dock (a Navy-strength gin mentioned in the article that started off this discussion) mixed 2:1 with Lillet blanc, a dash of orange bitters and an orange-twist garnish. Since Royal Dock is exceptionally hard to come by here, we've been substituting the high-proof Plymouth. The Royal Dock is a more strictly London gin, so it's a bit sharper than Plymouth, but the latter works just fine. 

I was just wondering (as they have Lillet blanc on offer this week at my supermarket): does a “Martini” with Lillet qualify as a Martini (skip the bitters for this question) ?

 

I prefer a straight dirty gin-only Martini, but I have to admit that the sake-infused variety I made recently worked very, very well. It can’t be called a Martini, though …

 

Where is the borderline on what vermouth-like liquid you may add to still earn the “Martini” designation ?

[Dave the Cook]

I suppose it depends on what qualifies as (dry) vermouth, doesn't it? Lillet (blanc) doesn't qualify; at best it's vermouth-adjacent, which makes it no more qualified than Dubonnet as a Martini ingredient. In our house, we get around this by adding a qualifying adjective; the Lillet-Plymouth cocktail is called a Fancy Martini. 🙂

 

(I can argue the other side of this question,  if you like.)

[weinoo]

13 hours ago, Duvel said:

I was just wondering (as they have Lillet blanc on offer this week at my supermarket): does a “Martini” with Lillet qualify as a Martini (skip the bitters for this question) ?

 

I think you should pick it (the Lillet) up; next thing you know, you'll be making Vespers!  Or maybe even a Corpse Reviver #2.

 

13 hours ago, Duvel said:

Where is the borderline on what vermouth-like liquid you may add to still earn the “Martini” designation

 

I don't believe there is a borderline; once you're not adding vermouth, is the drink still a Martini at all?

[paulraphael]

Just play it like all the chefs in the 2000s and put "martini" in scare quotes.

 

[AAQuesada]

On 2/11/2022 at 2:22 PM, Dave the Cook said:

Royal Dock (a Navy-strength gin mentioned in the article that started off this discussion) mixed 2:1 with Lillet blanc, a dash of orange bitters

They've been doing a similar Martini at Father's Office here in LA for quite a while. It really is quite good. If you scroll way way down past the beers you'll see it listed. 

 

Menu - Father's Office Culver City - See Current Menu (fathersoffice.com)

[haresfur]

We went to a local cocktail bar/restaurant for a couple of drinks for a bit of a celebration with partial success. We started with gin cocktails of their menu and then I started going through other classic cocktails I wanted to have someone make for me. No success. They had quite a few gins on the shelf so I thought maybe a martini. They didn't have any dry vermouth. Sigh, didn't even get to the specifying ratios part.

 

I wish them success, and I suppose I understand given the cost of Noilly Prat here if no one orders it, but really? 

[weinoo]

5 hours ago, haresfur said:

We went to a local cocktail bar/restaurant for a couple of drinks for a bit of a celebration with partial success. We started with gin cocktails of their menu and then I started going through other classic cocktails I wanted to have someone make for me. No success. They had quite a few gins on the shelf so I thought maybe a martini. They didn't have any dry vermouth. Sigh, didn't even get to the specifying ratios part.

 

I wish them success, and I suppose I understand given the cost of Noilly Prat here if no one orders it, but really? 

 

Like how much does Noilly Prat cost there? I don't understand how a cocktail bar doesn't have dry vermouth in their well or on a shelf.

[haresfur]

2 hours ago, weinoo said:

 

Like how much does Noilly Prat cost there? I don't understand how a cocktail bar doesn't have dry vermouth in their well or on a shelf.

 

$35/750 mL retail. I've never seen small bottles, which is one reason I don't generally keep it around - don't drink it fast enough.

[blue_dolphin]

14 minutes ago, haresfur said:

 

$35/750 mL retail. I've never seen small bottles, which is one reason I don't generally keep it around - don't drink it fast enough.

 

Yikes!  Noilly Prat is under $10 for 750 ml at Total Wine.  I usually get Dolin which is $15.99 for 750 ml and $12.99 for 375.

[weinoo]

41 minutes ago, haresfur said:

 

$35/750 mL retail. I've never seen small bottles, which is one reason I don't generally keep it around - don't drink it fast enough.

 

I'm surprised bars don't keep some local stuff on their shelves...https://www.nicks.com.au/products/maidenii-dry-vermouth-750ml-34211

[brinza]

On 2/3/2022 at 11:25 AM, Katie Meadow said:

When I was young we went out to my mother's brother's house in NJ for once a year seder. My uncle prided himself on making a great martini, and everyone but the kids was sozzled by dinner time. But what would you expect from a man who called his wife "battle axe?" Us cousins had to make do with Manischewitz wine. That yearly celebration was the only time I heard my mother really belt out some tunes!

Applause for the word "sozzled." 🙂

[haresfur]

On 2/15/2022 at 3:04 AM, weinoo said:

 

I'm surprised bars don't keep some local stuff on their shelves...https://www.nicks.com.au/products/maidenii-dry-vermouth-750ml-34211

 

I discovered a bottle of the Maidenii I bought at the farmer's market during lockdown and then stashed away to be forgotten. It was better than their amaro but a bit citrusy. My second attempt at matching it worked pretty well. Used Four Pillars Gin and Castelvetrano olives. Four Pillars is the best Australian gin I've found so far.

[&roid]

I’ve spent a very enjoyable Sunday morning reading through this thread, thanks for the original article @weinoo 

 

I love a good martini, but have had/made some which have been transformative and some which have left me underwhelmed. The science behind why this might be is really appealing to my control freak nature. 
 

My current favourite gin is a Scottish one made on Islay - Botanist. This is 46% so similar to tanqueray, I’m quite a fan of stronger cocktails so will try one at 32-33% later (10am is a little early for a martini, right?). Very interesting about the different dilution with a tin vs a glass, I normally use the former so will measure what dilution I’m getting… 

[Duvel]

26 minutes ago, &roid said:

10am is a little early for a martini, right?

Not on a Sunday …

[&roid]

Here we go then...

 

60ml Botanist gin 46% abv

16ml Noilly Prat 18% abv

2 dashes angostura orange bitters

 

Stirred over ice in a metal vessel then strained into a chilled coupe.  Initial weight was 68g, after stirring 82g so just a 20% dilution.  Using the calculator from the OP this works out at 33.5% abv.  

 

Thoughts: nice balance though I'll try with a glass stirring vessel next time to see if it gets nearer the 25%, I like the orange bitter addition but it's possibly a bit much, will try just a single dash next time. 

 

I foresee some fun experiments! Though I do wonder how rigorous the scientific method will be after a couple of these...

[weinoo]

1 hour ago, &roid said:

Stirred over ice in a metal vessel then strained into a chilled coupe.  Initial weight was 68g, after stirring 82g so just a 20% dilution.  Using the calculator from the OP this works out at 33.5% abv.  

 

Thoughts: nice balance though I'll try with a glass stirring vessel next time to see if it gets nearer the 25%, I like the orange bitter addition but it's possibly a bit much, will try just a single dash next time. 

 

But...what's the temp of drink after the stirring is finished?

 

FWIW, when using orange bitters, I prefer a Fitty-Fitty.

[&roid]

Second try (good job I don't work on a Monday):

 

Same ratios as before (save for a single dash of bitters) but stirred in a glass vessel, this time we went from 68g to 88g so now have a dilution of 29%.  This gives a final abv of 31.1%.

 

I like this better.  Orange bitter flavour much less intrusive and the slightly less fiery mix is nicer too.  Fascinating how a small change like the material of the stirring vessel can impact on the end product.

 

@weinoo, I didn't check temps so maybe that's something for the next round of experiments!

[haresfur]

1 hour ago, &roid said:

Second try (good job I don't work on a Monday):

 

Same ratios as before (save for a single dash of bitters) but stirred in a glass vessel, this time we went from 68g to 88g so now have a dilution of 29%.  This gives a final abv of 31.1%.

 

I like this better.  Orange bitter flavour much less intrusive and the slightly less fiery mix is nicer too.  Fascinating how a small change like the material of the stirring vessel can impact on the end product.

 

@weinoo, I didn't check temps so maybe that's something for the next round of experiments!

 

Ah, but which orange bitters?

Edit: Oh I see in the previous post. Maybe try Regans or a dash of Regans and a dash of Fees.

Edited January 8, 2023 by haresfur
I'm dumb (log)

[&roid]

20 minutes ago, haresfur said:

Maybe try Regans or a dash of Regans and a dash of Fees.

 

I shall look at these, I've a couple of bottles of Fee bros bitters but not any orange... Regans I don't have an haven't seen over here yet but will try and find 👍

[weinoo]

I'm pretty sure the OG Fitty-Fitty, as made at Pegu Club, used Reagan's.