Help with Cedric Grolet's Apple Tatin - Relatively Urgent for Christmas!

[jimb0]

On 12/27/2020 at 2:57 AM, dhardy123 said:

I'm sorry to see this late but I do have Cedric Grolet's recipe for this (in French) if you are still interested.

 

EDIT:

 

Oops I tried to delete this message. I do not have the recipe for his Pomme Tatin. The recipe is for the Pommes Aneth:

https://www.academiedugout.fr/recettes/tartelettes-pomme-aneth_11704_2

 

i’ve read through this recipe several times now, and i think they’ve used a different picture. the picture on that page clearly shows a hard, transparent coating (there’s a shard visible on the lower left), so it’s not a mirror glaze. in the finishing steps, though, the recipe only references the white chocolate coating. i even snagged a copy of the cookbook to look it up and the recipe and picture are the same, so i’m calling foul.

 

i will note, however, that even in this recipe the core is basically frozen solid before being dipped in the chocolate coating (which is 1:1 white chocolate and pure cocoa butter, with colourings and vanilla powder, so it could get very hard indeed) so i think both actually do use a hot syrup / caramel of some kind, issues with temperature stability and production aside. 

Edited January 1, 2021 by jimb0 (log)

[pastrygirl]

Well, once you guys figure out how Cedric Grolet manages to circumvent the laws of thermodynamics and bend the properties of cocoa butter to his will, do let me know, it'll be handy in summer when I'm trying to temper chocolate in my 90F kitchen.

[jimb0]

24 minutes ago, pastrygirl said:

Well, once you guys figure out how Cedric Grolet manages to circumvent the laws of thermodynamics and bend the properties of cocoa butter to his will, do let me know, it'll be handy in summer when I'm trying to temper chocolate in my 90F kitchen.

 

🙄 oh come on.

 

i think you guys are overestimating how quickly a ball of chocolate that's been in the freezer for hours is going to melt, to be frank. my guess is that if this uses the hot sugar dip, some of it very quickly hardens on contact. it's not a sustained exposure.

 

i don't know what else it could be unless he's doing something like glazing it with a transparent glaze and pouring ln2 over it.

Edited January 1, 2021 by jimb0 (log)

[jimb0]

to be clear i still think you can do a candy-coated chocolate dish at home like this. and without "circumventing the laws of thermodynamics." there are certainly references to dipping chocolates in sugar on the internet.

 

however, i've been pouring over his fruits book, from which the dill apple recipe posted earlier is found. nowhere in the recipe itself does it mention anything about the exterior clear glaze; it finishes it with a dip into a glaçage that has stuff like sweetened condensed milk and white chocolate in it; imo pretty clearly it's the second light green layer just under the surface.

 

with that said, i did find a potential clue in an illustration he'd left behind.

 

note that he explicitly points to a "glaçage kappa" (kappa frosting) in the drawing. this reference to kappa isn't found anywhere in the recipe or in the back of the book which covers directions for making the base coatings for some of these dishes. i haven't used kappa carrageenan much, but it's my understanding that it's one of the more brittle gel formers. 

 

i went back and looked at the tatin video more closely and this time i noticed that his chocolate stem is pressed into the top. it's possible that this is a hard shell and there's been a hole poked into the top; we can't see the surface into which the chocolate stick is pressed. but chances are good that it just pokes through because this is a carrageenan glaze. probably sweetened and/or flavoured, and there's probably some addition of a calcium salt or maybe he just has really hard water.

Edited January 1, 2021 by jimb0 (log)

[pastrygirl]

5 minutes ago, jimb0 said:

there are certainly references to dipping chocolates in sugar on the internet

 

do share ... I guess m&ms are sugar-coated chocolate but don't know what temps sugar panning happens at. 

 

I'll find some scraps to play with while I'm doing inventory this weekend, will see how hot sugar has to be to stay liquid and what happens when a cold piece of chocolate hits it.  I have a lot of experience with these two materials, really don't anticipate them playing together well but maybe I'll be surprised.

[jimb0]

25 minutes ago, pastrygirl said:

 

do share ... I guess m&ms are sugar-coated chocolate but don't know what temps sugar panning happens at. 

 

I'll find some scraps to play with while I'm doing inventory this weekend, will see how hot sugar has to be to stay liquid and what happens when a cold piece of chocolate hits it.  I have a lot of experience with these two materials, really don't anticipate them playing together well but maybe I'll be surprised.

 

sorry, it was just some stuff i came across while searching for ideas about this; i didn’t keep any references at hand, though you’re right, i should have. 

 

i thought of m&ms, too, but i suspect they get some kind of spray coating and drying that isn’t as feasible at home? or is it just coarse coating and a bunch of industrial panners?  i don’t actually know, though. 

 

most of you guys are way more experienced than i am with respect to chocolates, i just don’t think it’s completely impossible. 

 

admittedly though i assume you’d have to let the sugar cool more than it would if it were sugar bubbling away in his video. i would guess the biggest issue is just preventing the two from completely mixing; i don’t think the chocolate would need to remain tempered so it’d be fine to melt it if you can let it cool and resolidify later. 

[AAQuesada]

7 hours ago, jimb0 said:

a "glaçage kappa"

 

And with that clue i found..

 

https://youtu.be/Xigj_1fX9VI

 

Couldn't figure out how to embed this?

Edited January 2, 2021 by AAQuesada
Nb (log)

[jimb0]

11 hours ago, AAQuesada said:

 

And with that clue i found..

 

https://youtu.be/Xigj_1fX9VI

 

Couldn't figure out how to embed this?

nice. so a 1.5% concentration in that video (actually quite high imo) leading to a set point of likely around 60°C, with a calcium adjuvant or really hard water, etc. 

[AAQuesada]

Why calcium? I don't think Kappa carrageenan requires calcium to set? Liquid just needs to be about 200 to dissolve. 

[jimb0]

the higher the concentration the more brittle the gel it forms, is all, and in the case of the topic, the videos seem to make it look extremely brittle. just something to keep in mind if someone were using softened or distilled water, perhaps. 

[Jonathan]

It’s been a while but turns out he WAS using toffee: Here. You can see the steam/crack afterwards, sorcery!

[Rajala]

4 hours ago, Jonathan said:

It’s been a while but turns out he WAS using toffee: Here. You can see the steam/crack afterwards, sorcery!

 

Haha nice update. Yeah, it's something hot there, that's for sure.

[pastrygirl]

From his ‘fruit’ book:

 

 

 

the ‘coating mixture’ is a base of white choc & cocoa butter

 

sorry, posting from my phone, I’ll see if I can rotate the pics later. 

[Jonathan]

On 7/9/2021 at 9:14 AM, pastrygirl said:

From his ‘fruit’ book:

 

 

 

the ‘coating mixture’ is a base of white choc & cocoa butter

 

sorry, posting from my phone, I’ll see if I can rotate the pics later. 

Thanks for that! I think he has a few different “Apple” Recipes, I haven’t found the Tatin one in any of the books yet, hopefully soon