Ganache: Tips, Techniques & Troubleshooting

[Kerry Beal]

On 12/3/2020 at 5:19 PM, Rajala said:

So I was reading about invert sugar in ganaches. I also read that heating invert sugar above 70° will stop it from helping lowering the AW of the product. What happens above 70°? Does some sugar stuff melt?

Were you reading about it in Wybauw?

 

Above 70º invertase becomes in activated (it's an enzyme, a protein) however I don't believe that invert sugar suffers the same fate. I think there was some confusion. 

Edited December 4, 2020 by Kerry Beal (log)

[Rajala]

37 minutes ago, Kerry Beal said:

Were you reading about it in Wybauw?

 

Above 70º invertase becomes in activated (it's an enzyme, a protein) however I don't believe that invert sugar suffers the same fate. I think there was some confusion. 

 

Yep, that's the one I read it in.

 

 

[Muscadelle]

Staying on the same topic (invert sugar)

 

Has anyone of you ever tried using the syrup from your candied fruits (citrus peel, cherries etc) in a ganache to replace invert sugar?

I'm really trying to do something with all my syrups, it seems like such a waste otherwise.

 

Do you think that the resulting syrup of candying fruits is in fact invert sugar?  If not, is it possible to make it an invert sugar? (by adding acidity and boiling it to 114 maybe?

[Tri2Cook]

I may be way behind the curve with this question but I don't remember seeing information about it so... in a ganache where a liquid is involved and with the constant quest to reduce water activity, is there a reason we don't use glucose powder instead of liquid glucose which, even at it's best for the purpose, has fairly high water content? Or do we do that and I just haven't been paying attention in class? 😁

[jimb0]

would it be as smooth?

[Tri2Cook]

On 1/22/2021 at 4:51 PM, jimb0 said:

would it be as smooth?

I have no idea if it does good things, bad things, is commonly used and I just don't know it or summons demons from the seven levels of hell but I feel kinda like I may have accidentally stumbled upon Chocolate Fightclub… nobody seems to want to talk about it. 

[Jim D.]

On 1/21/2021 at 1:28 PM, Tri2Cook said:

I may be way behind the curve with this question but I don't remember seeing information about it so... in a ganache where a liquid is involved and with the constant quest to reduce water activity, is there a reason we don't use glucose powder instead of liquid glucose which, even at it's best for the purpose, has fairly high water content? Or do we do that and I just haven't been paying attention in class? 😁

 

I found this on Ecole Chocolat:

 

Quote

The benefit to using liquid glucose over solid is that it imparts a longer 'tooth' to your pieces - it adds an elasticity that is not present when you use powdered glucose. The downside to using liquid glucose over solid is that it has a higher water content, so there is less ability for it to manage your shelf life by controlling water content.

 

And this:

 

Quote

Powdered glucose, also called dextrose, is a key tool in the chocolatier’s belt. It helps to prevent premature crystallization of ganaches, caramels and hydrocolloids such as pâte de fruits and marshmallows. While it is not used in everything, it is worth adding to recipes to see if it enhances the stability of your creations.

     The one issue with powdered glucose is that it is not highly soluble, so you need to add it to hot liquids and stir vigourously to encourage it to dissolve. Once it is dissolved, however, it stays that way and helps your piece to stabilize with its environment by controlling the water balance.

     Pâte de fruits is a perfect application for powdered glucose – you are already heating your liquids to a high temperature, creating the perfect environment for the glucose to dissolve.

 

 

[Tri2Cook]

1 hour ago, Jim D. said:

I found this on Ecole Chocolat:

Thanks! That's interesting. So basically they're saying "most definitely maybe but possibly not." I've come to learn that's a common theme with chocolate and confection work. The rules tend to be whatever works for the person explaining the rules.

[Cahoot]

Apologies if this was brought up before in case I missed it earlier in the thread. 

 

I know that invert liquid sugars are used to increase shelf life of ganache in bonbons by lowering the AW and also increase the smoothness too. However, I've also seen many ganache recipes not for bonbons (e.g. ganache montée, Namelaka cream) but for cakes and pastries that also use invert sugars, and it's often times an equal amount of glucose and Trimoline (e.g. 20g glucose + 20g Trimoline). In these applications increased shelf life from using invert sugars wouldn't matter, so what's their purpose? Is it just for a slightly smoother mouthfeel, or do they also affect the consistency or structure in other aspects? An example is this recipe. 

 

To add on to that, why do these recipes usually call for an equal amount of glucose and Trimoline? As far as I understand they'd both be fulfilling basically the same purpose (though I know they're not identical products, e.g. different water contents for one), so I wonder why those recipes can't be slightly reformulated to be simpler and just use one invert sugar. And as someone in Canada where it's hard to get glucose syrup as a home baker and basically impossible to get Trimoline, I'm also interested in how important they actually are to the recipe and what the effects would be if they were omitted or substituted - I've seen people substitute honey for Trimoline and corn syrup for glucose. 

 

And maybe the same answer to my first question will apply to this, but similarly many recipes for caramel also call for invert sugars too, added after the caramel is formed. To clarify, I don't mean invert sugars heated with the sugar to prevent it from crystallizing, but rather they're heated with the cream used for deglazing the caramel. An example is this recipe. 

[jimb0]

if you're doing it for home use, you can always just make your own invert sugars. personally i don't find glucose to be that difficult to source, though whether it's worth the slight premium compared to corn syrup for your own recipes, eh.

 

fwiw i keep ganaches pretty simple, and especially if they're not going in a bonbon (i.e., going on a plate, in a cake, etc.) i don't tend to use more than 2 or 3 ingredients and rarely bother with special sugars. as you say, the ganache in a cake is probably not worth worrying about shelf stability. 

[Rajala]

16 hours ago, Cahoot said:

Is it just for a slightly smoother mouthfeel, or do they also affect the consistency or structure in other aspects?

 

It will keep the product more moist.

[Kerry Beal]

16 hours ago, Cahoot said:

Apologies if this was brought up before in case I missed it earlier in the thread. 

 

I know that invert liquid sugars are used to increase shelf life of ganache in bonbons by lowering the AW and also increase the smoothness too. However, I've also seen many ganache recipes not for bonbons (e.g. ganache montée, Namelaka cream) but for cakes and pastries that also use invert sugars, and it's often times an equal amount of glucose and Trimoline (e.g. 20g glucose + 20g Trimoline). In these applications increased shelf life from using invert sugars wouldn't matter, so what's their purpose? Is it just for a slightly smoother mouthfeel, or do they also affect the consistency or structure in other aspects? An example is this recipe. 

 

To add on to that, why do these recipes usually call for an equal amount of glucose and Trimoline? As far as I understand they'd both be fulfilling basically the same purpose (though I know they're not identical products, e.g. different water contents for one), so I wonder why those recipes can't be slightly reformulated to be simpler and just use one invert sugar. And as someone in Canada where it's hard to get glucose syrup as a home baker and basically impossible to get Trimoline, I'm also interested in how important they actually are to the recipe and what the effects would be if they were omitted or substituted - I've seen people substitute honey for Trimoline and corn syrup for glucose. 

 

And maybe the same answer to my first question will apply to this, but similarly many recipes for caramel also call for invert sugars too, added after the caramel is formed. To clarify, I don't mean invert sugars heated with the sugar to prevent it from crystallizing, but rather they're heated with the cream used for deglazing the caramel. An example is this recipe. 

Where in Canada are you located - I’m sure we can find you some glucose fairly easily?

[Cahoot]

3 hours ago, Kerry Beal said:

Where in Canada are you located - I’m sure we can find you some glucose fairly easily?

I live in Ottawa. I'm surprised to hear you and @jimb0 mention that you can find it pretty easily. The only place that I can find it for a good price is McCall's which has it in 1kg, 5k, and 11kg, but I only order from there infrequently when I need a lot of items from there to minimize shipping costs. Everywhere else I've been able to find glucose online only sells it in the smaller 321ml containers which are much less cost efficient. 

[jimb0]

1 hour ago, Cahoot said:

I live in Ottawa. I'm surprised to hear you and @jimb0 mention that you can find it pretty easily. The only place that I can find it for a good price is McCall's which has it in 1kg, 5k, and 11kg, but I only order from there infrequently when I need a lot of items from there to minimize shipping costs. Everywhere else I've been able to find glucose online only sells it in the smaller 321ml containers which are much less cost efficient. 

 

how much are you looking to get at one time? i was assuming you didn't need a lot at a time as a home baker. bulk barn even sells the 8.5 oz tubs of it.

[Cahoot]

4 hours ago, jimb0 said:

 

how much are you looking to get at one time? i was assuming you didn't need a lot at a time as a home baker. bulk barn even sells the 8.5 oz tubs of it.

I was just looking for something in the 1-2 kg range to last a comfortable amount of time. The 8.5 oz tubs would actually be fine if I didn't have to pay shipping, but with that it ends up being not worth it unless there are other items I also need from the store. I did see that Bulk Barn has it, but none of the stores close to me have had it stocked; shame since it would've been very convenient otherwise. 

[jimb0]

21 minutes ago, Cahoot said:

I was just looking for something in the 1-2 kg range to last a comfortable amount of time. The 8.5 oz tubs would actually be fine if I didn't have to pay shipping, but with that it ends up being not worth it unless there are other items I also need from the store. I did see that Bulk Barn has it, but none of the stores close to me have had it stocked; shame since it would've been very convenient otherwise. 

you might want to consider talking to the managers of those bulk barns to see if they'll stock it for you.

 

you may also take a look at local baking supply and brewing shops. i did a quick search and found at least one ottawa brew shop that stocks liquid glucose for pretty cheap:

 

https://store.defalcowines.com/Liquid-Glucose.html

 

you can probably contact them to get the exact specs on it.

[Kerry Beal]

20 minutes ago, jimb0 said:

you might want to consider talking to the managers of those bulk barns to see if they'll stock it for you.

 

you may also take a look at local baking supply and brewing shops. i did a quick search and found at least one ottawa brew shop that stocks liquid glucose for pretty cheap:

 

https://store.defalcowines.com/Liquid-Glucose.html

 

you can probably contact them to get the exact specs on it.

Was just going to post exactly the same thing! 

 

I buy mine in 30 kg pails from a local bakery supply. And in the past I've found the bottles of Happy something brand in a local bulk food store - think they were around 1 kg and didn't cost too much.

 

Edited February 20, 2021 by Kerry Beal (log)

[Cahoot]

@jimb0 and @Kerry Beal thank you both for your suggestions! I didn't think about looking at brewing shops, but that is indeed very cheap. I also looked through my local bakery supply stores and found another store that I didn't know about which also sells it for a good price. No more being constrained by lack of availability of this ingredient anymore

[jimb0]

yay!  

 

if you don't want to make your own invert sugar syrups (e.g., trimoline), i know that at least createdistribution stocks some, but i bet other ottawa shops will have it, too:

 

https://createdistribution.com/product/liquid-medium-invert-sugar-32-oz/

[Jonathan]

Hi guys, thinking of doing a Baklava inspired filling for the next batch I’m thinking of using feuilletine as a filo substitute with a cardamom, honey and pistachio ganache. Would I be right in assuming so long as the water activity of the ganache is low the feuilletine should remain crisp for at least 2-3 weeks?

[jimb0]

9 minutes ago, Jonathan said:

Hi guys, thinking of doing a Baklava inspired filling for the next batch I’m thinking of using feuilletine as a filo substitute with a cardamom, honey and pistachio ganache. Would I be right in assuming so long as the water activity of the ganache is low the feuilletine should remain crisp for at least 2-3 weeks?

 

i have to assume. when i was living in montpellier, there was a chocolatier that sold a small rectangle of gianduja and feuilletine that was dipped, and it was perfectly crunchy (although i never waited 3 weeks to eat one). you could always coat it and break it up, or use something like one of those commercially made crisp pearls. i'd be surprised if you can't get it to work, though.

[pastrygirl]

2 hours ago, Jonathan said:

Would I be right in assuming so long as the water activity of the ganache is low the feuilletine should remain crisp for at least 2-3 weeks?

 

How low can you go?  I'm skeptical that feuilletine will stay crisp with any amount of available water.

[jimb0]

38 minutes ago, pastrygirl said:

 

How low can you go?  I'm skeptical that feuilletine will stay crisp with any amount of available water.

i know i’m addicted to using butter ganache for everything because it’s so easy but i wonder if it wouldn’t be appropriate here; the water would be pretty minute. 

 

you could infuse cardamom into the honey and then chill and layer ganache on top. 

 

if the pistachios aren’t ultra smooth tho i’m not sure how important it is to get a secondary crunch from something like a feuilletine

[Jim D.]

3 hours ago, pastrygirl said:

 

How low can you go?  I'm skeptical that feuilletine will stay crisp with any amount of available water.

 

I agree.  I wouldn't expect feuilletine to stay crisp when mixed with a ganache.  What I would try is to make pistachio gianduja instead of a ganache.  It has more flavor than a ganache can deliver.  What I do is to toast some pistachios (very slightly--I know some people disagree with the toasting, but a side-by-side test left me thinking toasted is better).  Then melt pistachio paste and white chocolate to make gianduja, plus some feulletine (if you want more crunch since pistachios aren't really very crunchy). Pipe a tiny amount of the gianduja into each cavity, sprinkle in the pistachios, then pipe more gianduja on top.  My thinking on this somewhat elaborate procedure is that is if you try to pipe pistachios mixed in with the gianduja, they will stick in the piping bag, and if you put the nuts in first, air bubbles will form (experience speaking), so they are enclosed in the gianduja.  Let that set. In keeping with Peter Greweling's thoughts on migration within bonbons, I would paint the gianduja layer with a thin layer of melted cocoa butter (obviously this step is optional).  Then you could make a ganache layer (getting the honey and cardamom flavor into that, maybe even some rosewater--some baklava has it) and pipe that on top of the gianduja.  In thinking about this whole idea, I am getting inspired to give it a try myself.

[Jim D.]

Another thought just popped into my head:  There is such a thing (I had to consult Google) as dried honey.  I have no idea what it tastes like, though I have some molasses powder that tastes fine, but it might even be possible to put all the flavors (not the rosewater) into the gianduja.  But I think I would go with the two layers for the sake of contrast.

Edited February 22, 2021 by Jim D. (log)