Chinese Vegetables Illustrated

[Anna N]

1 minute ago, liuzhou said:

 

The main trouble with term 'bok choy' is that, in Chinese, it simply means 'cabbage' which covers hundreds of different varieties.  It's a family, not a type.

Indeed. Here (Ontario) of course it is still considered by some an exotic vegetable!  But it is definitely gaining in popularity and is much more readily available in regular grocery stores these days.
I find the taste of the various types I have tried to be very similar so if you like one chances are you will like them all. But the dark green curly babies just seem tastier and are much more attractive on the plate. 

[heidih]

Whatever the name I know I'd put it in my cart. Beautifully vibrant. I don't think I've seen it before but the big Chinese market here (99 Ranch) tends to put the various choys in plastic bags with several in a bag. I think it keeps the ladies who dig through piles looking for "perfection" from bruising up the whole bin. 

[JoNorvelleWalker]

This morning I had an organic baby bok choy delivery from Whole Foods.  The specimens are huge:  14 inches/0.36 meters long, whereas the baby bok choy I typically buy are more like 4-5 inches in length.  One choy would have been quite enough.  I thought at first the amazon shopper had substituted bok choy for what I ordered.  However these brassica indeed look like baby bok choy -- baby bok choy grown up and on steroids.

 

And it's not like I didn't already have a cabbage in the hydrator.  Fortunately my new rice cooker is supposed to arrive tomorrow.

 

 

[Midlife]

23 hours ago, heidih said:

Whatever the name I know I'd put it in my cart. Beautifully vibrant. I don't think I've seen it before but the big Chinese market here (99 Ranch) tends to put the various choys in plastic bags with several in a bag. I think it keeps the ladies who dig through piles looking for "perfection" from bruising up the whole bin. 

That’s the one thing that I find to be a problem at 99 Ranch. I love the place but need just a few bok choi or gai lan for a stir fry or such. They do only sell them packaged, with enough for us for 3-4 meals. Luckily they’re pretty cheap so I buy them anyway. 

[liuzhou]

On 6/28/2022 at 10:50 PM, Midlife said:

That’s the one thing that I find to be a problem at 99 Ranch. I love the place but need just a few bok choi or gai lan for a stir fry or such. They do only sell them packaged, with enough for us for 3-4 meals. Luckily they’re pretty cheap so I buy them anyway. 

 

That is one of the reasons I seldom buy veg in supermarkets. I live alone and don't need 18 tomatoes, thank you!

 

Instead, I use the local wet market where I can buy one tomato if need be (I never have!) or just enough of what I need. They all know me and happily oblige. I've been going there 25 years. The supermarket staff changes every day and they don't know me from Adam and don't care, either. (Not blaming them as people!)

[liuzhou]

OK. Update.

Here is a picture hopefully showing the cup nature of this veg. You don't, I think, ever get that with Shanghai Greens.

 

And here it is cooked.


 

It would be good to stuff, I guess! Otherwise, it just tastes like a minerally cabbage.

 

Edited June 30, 2022 by liuzhou (log)

[Katie Meadow]

On 6/26/2022 at 9:19 PM, liuzhou said:

Here is a brassica variety I don't recall seeing before. In Chinese, it is 鹤斗白 (hè dǒu bái, which is untranslatable into anything sensible*), but I have been unable to find a proper English name or a more specific scientific name. Each head is about the same size as what many of you call baby bok choy**.

 

鹤斗白

 

The leaves of this one are darker and curled and the whole head forms a sort of cup shape (which is the meaning of the second character.

 

I'll be having it with my dinner later and shall report on the  taste.

 

* The name translates literally as 'crane (the bird) cup-shaped white)

** but the Chinese don't - it's called Shanghai greens here. Baby bok choy here is something different. See up thread.

This looks like what I buy once a week and use primarily for stir fry. Usually we can get it baby size, like baby bok choi, but sometimes it is bigger. The market typically has it next to or in close proximity to bok choi and they label this dark curly one choi sum, or choy sum hue. I  prefer it to what I think of as baby bok choi, which is of a similar shape but a pale green and not curly, at least in these parts.  

[liuzhou]

My problem with 'bok choy' or 'bok choi', however you spell it, is that it's almost meaningless in Chinese. My problem; not yours.

Bok Choy is Cantonese, a language spoken by 4.5% of Chinese people. The majority language is what you probably know as Mandarin Chinese, another unknown term in China.

 

In Mandarin, it is 白菜 (bái cài) which literally means 'white vegetable', but more pragmatically just means 'brassica'. It covers literally scores of vegetables.

So when you tell me something is bok choy, I have no idea what you are talking about. But one thing I do know. What most Americans and British etc call 'baby bok choy' is never called that in China!

As I already said, and before the wicked witch berates me again, I repeat - call it what you will, but please try to understand my confusion.

[Anna N]

35 minutes ago, liuzhou said:

As I already said, and before the wicked witch berates me again, I repeat - call it what you will, but please try to understand my confusion.

I don’t think any of us are trying to confound you. We are equally at a loss for a way to distinguish various greens, especially Asian greens. But we’re not all that much better with our “own” vegetables. Ask three people what they mean by “chicory” and you will likely get three different answers. Is it “rapini” or “broccoli rabe”. The list goes on. 

[liuzhou]

12 minutes ago, Anna N said:

I don’t think any of us are trying to confound you. We are equally at a loss for a way to distinguish various greens, especially Asian greens. But we’re not all that much better with our “own” vegetables. Ask three people what they mean by “chicory” and you will likely get three different answers. Is it “rapini” or “broccoli rabe”. The list goes on. 

 

I never thought that anyone was trying to confound me.

I remember the great swede / turnip debate in the UK, then we Scots threw  'neeps' into the argument just to screw with people's minds!

[weinoo]

37 minutes ago, Anna N said:

Ask three people what they mean by “chicory” and you will likely get three different answers. Is it “rapini” or “broccoli rabe”.

I think it means escarole.

[Katie Meadow]

1 hour ago, liuzhou said:

 

I never thought that anyone was trying to confound me.

I remember the great swede / turnip debate in the UK, then we Scots threw  'neeps' into the argument just to screw with people's minds!

 

2 hours ago, liuzhou said:

My problem with 'bok choy' or 'bok choi', however you spell it, is that it's almost meaningless in Chinese. My problem; not yours.

Bok Choy is Cantonese, a language spoken by 4.5% of Chinese people. The majority language is what you probably know as Mandarin Chinese, another unknown term in China.

 

In Mandarin, it is 白菜 (bái cài) which literally means 'white vegetable', but more pragmatically just means 'brassica'. It covers literally scores of vegetables.

So when you tell me something is bok choy, I have no idea what you are talking about. But one thing I do know. What most Americans and British etc call 'baby bok choy' is never called that in China!

As I already said, and before the wicked witch berates me again, I repeat - call it what you will, but please try to understand my confusion.

The confusion over the various greens seems ubiquitous. Several Asian or Chinese cookbooks that I have provide illustrations of all kinds of leafy greens, cabbages, etc. One book contradicts another, and so on seemingly endlessly. And the best I can do is let you know what my market (big and popular but not specifically Asian) calls my preferred "cabbage." Shopping in Oakland Chinatown, where the variety of leafy greens is enormous or course,  I just have to go by what I like and not worry about what it is called. If it is lovely and fresh it is worth a chance, since these greens never break the bank.    

[liuzhou]

@Katie Meadowexactly

[liuzhou]

Five years after starting this topic, I finally found something this morning that I've been looking for here all that time and longer. Eryngium foetidum.

 

Variously known as sawtooth coriander, culantro (not cilantro), Mexican coriander, Thai coriander, long leaf coriander and many other names. I first encountered it as ngò gai in Vietnam. With a similar but stronger taste than the well-known cilantro or coriander leaf, it also retains its flavour when dried, unlike its more famous near-namesake.

 

Here it is known as 广东香菜 (guǎng dōng xiāng cài) or Guangdong coriander, although it has no real connection with that province.

 

Edited May 5, 2023 by liuzhou (log)

[KennethT]

8 hours ago, liuzhou said:

Five years after starting this topic, I finally found something this morning that I've been looking for here all that time and longer. Eryngium foetidum.

 

Variously known as sawtooth coriander, culantro (not cilantro), Mexican coriander, Thai coriander, long leaf coriander and many other names. I first encountered it as ngò gai in Vietnam. With a similar but stronger taste then the well-known cilantro or coriander leaf, it also retains its flavour when dried, unlike it's more famous near-namesake.

 

Here it is known as 广东香菜 (guǎng dōng xiāng cài) or Guangdong coriander, although it has no real connection with that province.

 

Love sawtooth.  And you got it with the roots on!!!  You can plant the crowns (with the roots) and grow it forever. Just don't give it too much light or the leaves get tough and the saw teeth get really sharp!

[liuzhou]

2 hours ago, KennethT said:

Love sawtooth.  And you got it with the roots on!!!  You can plant the crowns (with the roots) and grow it forever. Just don't give it too much light or the leaves get tough and the saw teeth get really sharp!

 

Thanks. I was looking at the roots and wondering. 

[heidih]

@KennethT the cilantro roots are used pounded in some cuisiones. Have you seen the sawtooth being discussed used similarly?

[KennethT]

1 hour ago, heidih said:

@KennethT the cilantro roots are used pounded in some cuisiones. Have you seen the sawtooth being discussed used similarly?

No - the only time I've seen it is in Thai food but that refers to normal cilantro, not sawtooth.

[liuzhou]

According to Wikinonsense, in Guangxi, sawtooth coriander is known as 假香荽 (jiǎ xiāng suī) or 'fake coriander'. Unfortunately, they seem to have forgotten to tell anyone in Guangxi. No one I've spoken to, including local chefs, has heard of it.

 

Now I just need to find rau răm.

 

It is so frustrating living right next to Vietnam but being so unable to source so many of its iconic ingredients.

Edited March 18, 2023 by liuzhou (log)

[KennethT]

6 hours ago, liuzhou said:

Now I just need to find rau răm.

 

It is so frustrating living right next to Vietnam but being so unable to source so many of its iconic ingredients.

I wish I could send you some of mine!  It grows like a weed.  I've been growing mine from a single stem I got in a restaurant for years now.  Maybe you could run over to Vietnam, put a stem in a damp/wet paper towel and then bring it back?  It'll probably start rooting by the time you get home!

[liuzhou]

Around this time of year for the last few years these have turned up in the local supermarket (never in the wet / farmer's market).

 

They are not maggots! These are Stachys affinis, a root vegetable called variously Chinese artichokes, Japanese artichokes or Crosnes. They also go under various names in Chinese: 甘露子 (gān lù zǐ), 甘露儿 (gān lù ér), 玉环菜 (yù huán cài) or 草石蚕 (cǎo shí cán).

 

 

The first two English names reflect some early confusion as to where they originated. They are native to China. The third name, Crosnes, refers to the home town, just south of Paris, of a French horticulturist named M. Pailleux who, in 1882, received a gift of the plant from the Russian Legation in Beijing and went on to successfully introduce it to Europe, naming it after his home town but adding du Japon - Crosnes du Japon. This addition was soon dropped.

 

It is unrelated to either the Globe Artichoke or the Jerusalem Artichoke, but visually vaguely resembles the later, while tasting more like the former. The tubers are about 5cm / 2 inches long and should be used quickly as they discolour rapidly after being disinterred. If cleaned well ( I use a soft toothbrush), there is no need to peel them (in fact, it's difficult due to the shape). They can be eaten raw in salads or boiled. Here, they are usually parboiled then fried.  Pickled Chinese artichokes are also available in some stores.

 

Pickled Chinese Artichokes

 

Edited February 20, 2023 by liuzhou (log)

[liuzhou]

Today, five year after mentioning this as here

 

Quote

 

This is known in English as lizard's tail, fish mint, fish leaf, rainbow plant, chameleon plant, heart leaf, fish wort, or bishop's weed.

 

In Chinese, it is usually 鱼腥草/魚腥草 (Mand: yú xīng cǎo; Cant: jyu4*2 sing1 cou2) which means “fish smell grass”, which sounds delightful.  Other names include 截儿根 (Mand: jié ér gēn; Cant: zit6 ji4 gan1), literally "stem young root", 猪鼻拱/豬鼻拱 (Mand: zhū bí gǒng; Cant: zyu1 bei6 gung2) literally "pig's nose snuffle" and 臭草 (Mand: chòu cǎo; Cant: cau3 cou2), literally "stinking grass". The latter name is confusingly also used for the unrelated herb, rue.

 

While I've aways been able to find the stems everywhere, I finally found someone selling the green leaves. This was from the same supplier who now stocks culantro, giving me hope that more ingresients featured in Vietnamese food may be coming my way.

 

 

[KennethT]

52 minutes ago, liuzhou said:

Today, five year after mentioning this as here

 

 

While I've aways been able to find the stems everywhere, I finally found someone selling the green leaves. This was from the same supplier who now stocks culantro, giving me hope that more ingresients featured in Vietnamese food may be coming my way.

 

 

I was surprised at the original post that you could get stems but not the leaves.  To be honest, those leaves look like they've seen better days!!  But I also understand that sometimes beggars can't be choosers and it's definitely better than nothing.

[liuzhou]

6 minutes ago, KennethT said:

I was surprised at the original post that you could get stems but not the leaves.  To be honest, those leaves look like they've seen better days!!  But I also understand that sometimes beggars can't be choosers and it's definitely better than nothing.

 

I've always been confused about that.

 

Yes, not the best I've ever seen. But I ordered them from the local delivery wallahs so didn't see them until they arrived. I'll try again in a few days and see what happens.

 

[liuzhou]

 

Thinking further about this, I think a big difference is that in Vietnam (my favourite culinary destination) most of these greens are served raw as salad items, whereas in China, they will always be cooked, so pristine samples aren't quite so important.

 

Edited May 15, 2023 by liuzhou (log)