Food &Wine vs. Gourmet?

[Dave the Cook]

Perhaps they're not audited.

[Fat Guy]

Yes, that may be the case. Kind of like when Web sites boast of hundreds of thousands of users that can't possibly be documented. Or maybe there's another reason why they wouldn't want to be audited. Who knows?

[swissmiss]

I can't figure out why Taste of Home never shows up on the lists of top-100 circulation magazines, for example:

http://www.infoplease.com/ipea/A0301522.html

What could be going on there?

Steven, Taste of Home doesn't have any ads, which is probably why it's not audited. They don't have to report to anyone really. The top circulation is mainly for advertisers to know where to put their money, as you most likely know!

Ms. Ramsey, you can find Taste of Home at Barnes & Noble for example. I don't find the look of the magazine appealing, but it is easy to see why it appeals to such a vast audience. A lot of the recipes are sent in by the readers as well. They also go to food-related trade shows.

[JAZ]

I don't find the look of the magazine appealing, but it is easy to see why it appeals to such a vast audience. A lot of the recipes are sent in by the readers as well. They also go to food-related trade shows.

The mother-in-law of a friend of mine used to be one of the editors of Taste of Home, so my friend got it for free for several years. I borrowed some of the issues to see if it might be a possible market for some articles. Turns out they only accept submissions from subscribers, and even then I think you have to be on what they call their editorial board, which seemd to be a group of women who like to cook at home but have no professional background. They have columns on subjects like theme parties (I recall one such column describing the author's "dairy party" complete with a picture of the hostesses dressed up in black and white cow costumes, uddrs and all).

Think church fundraiser cook book with photos and a test kitchen.

[joiei]

Gourmet, Food and Wine, and the rest, I pick up at the local B&N on occasion if it has anything interesting inside. I do subscribe to Art Culinaire, Food Arts, and Sante. I find magazines directed to the industry a little more challenging. And the recipes in AC that I have

done were worth the effort. Especially the desserts. By the time I finished, there would be several new ideas running through my head. Mostly changes to the dish I was making.

I do not think there is a best, basically it is what is appealing to you at that moment. Right now, I am liking Eating Well a lot and also, The Art of Eating, which does not involve recipes in the first place.

Good Food, Good friends, Good Health. That is living.

[Steve Klc]

Nick, I'd gladly part with my early "Art Culinaire" issues, I've never been that much of a fan, least of all of the desserts. (Sorry joiei, not meant as a direct reply.) If you'd value them, PM me. #15, 17, 18, 23, 27, 31, 32, 33, and 35 could be yours. Of course you'd have to cook for them, I'm not interested in a monetary exchange.

[Fat Guy]

I'm mostly interested in Art Culinaire for the photography. It's the gold standard for food photography as far as I'm concerned. I've found that if you aren't familiar with the way Art Culinaire displays food you can't even have a conversation about food photography with a professional. Whenever I do a magazine piece for a general interest publication that doesn't have a lot of experience with photographing food, I show the art director the photos in Art Culinaire and ask to have the style emulated: The wide apertures, the backlighting, and the general sex appeal. If they come even close, we're in good shape.

[jaybee]

Although I read pretty much every food magazine and website I can sink my teeth into, I'm still waiting for the ultimate food magazine, for true fanatics like us...

If someone came up with the money, we'd create such a magazine.

Aha. Ambitions revealed. What in your opinion, would the ultimate food magazine have that is not present in a food magazine now? Or in what aspects would it be so far superior? What magzines of any subject do you consider to be good role models.

[helenas]

my perception is that Gourmet pitches to a higher-income, more urban demographic than Food & Wine.

According to the following table (Median Household Income), F&W has a pretty high-income audience.

[Fat Guy]

Correct, but Gourmet's readers have around 10% more household income to dispose of -- and that's a lot of food, wine, and travel. Look at the ads in the two magazines to see how differently they're perceived by the luxury goods and services providers.

[Fat Guy]

What in your opinion, would the ultimate food magazine have that is not present in a food magazine now?  Or in what aspects would it be so far superior?  What magzines of any subject do you consider to be good role models.

Atlantic Monthly about food with photos.

[helenas]

Correct, but Gourmet's readers have around 10% more household income to dispose of...

Did i somehow miss this information?

[Fat Guy]

No. Gourmet just wasn't on that list. You need to look at the Mendelsohn survey.

[Fat Guy]

Actually I just got PMd by someone with the 2002 statistics (I only have 1998 here) and the gap has closed to more like a 3% income spread. Still that combined with other factors seems to put the two magazines in different perceived categories among the advertisers.

[helenas]

No. Gourmet just wasn't on that list. You need to look at the Mendelsohn survey.

This list IS the Mendelsohn survey of 2001.

[Fat Guy]

Maybe the source material came from there, but the list you're looking at is a piece of advertising for the Harvard Business Review that's just attempting to show how the journal's demographic compares to some other publications. It's not all-inclusive.

[Jinmyo]

What in your opinion, would the ultimate food magazine have that is not present in a food magazine now?  Or in what aspects would it be so far superior?  What magzines of any subject do you consider to be good role models.

Atlantic Monthly about food with photos.

Yes.

[helenas]

I don't think they had any particular reason to yank out Gourmet for whatever reason, so i'll try to ask my friend from HBR about this. And maybe somebody can PM me the data for 2001...

[Fat Guy]

Ah, here it is online, after all that:

http://www.mmrsurveys.com/ppcmedin01.htm

[ChocoKitty]

What in your opinion, would the ultimate food magazine have that is not present in a food magazine now?  Or in what aspects would it be so far superior?  What magzines of any subject do you consider to be good role models.

Atlantic Monthly about food with photos.

This is really intriguing. Please elaborate? I'm curious about the details of your thoughts on this....

[Fat Guy]

Smart like the Atlantic or New Republic or New Yorker but not pseudo-intellectual, pretentious, or irrelevant like Gastronomica. Long features that really get into a subject, like in Ed Behr's newsletter but less geeky. Outrageous and young like Salon, Slate, or Wired, but not self-consciously hip or committed to shock for the sake of shock. No compromises made for the Middle-American palate, but by no means an urban journal. Studio photography like in Art Culinaire and photojournalism like in Life. Dining, travel, cooking, news, people, issues, opinions, humor, debates. A food magazine for smart, interesting people who love and care about food -- and love to read.

[nerissa]

I am pretty interested in this discussion as I have been subscribing to Gourmet for the last 3 years, I recently discontinued Martha Stewart Living, and I occasionally read Gastronomica. I was really disappointed to see that Gourmet did a dec. cookies issue. Please! I detest Bon Appetit for similiar reasons-- trying to appeal to the lowest common denominator. All right, I will be fair-- I don't crave sweets, I crave the salty, bitter, and sour. I have found MSL recipes to be poorly written and trying too hard, sometimes.

Last night, I was flipping through my F&W cookbook of 2000 recipes trying to come up with a menu for a dinner party, and I reminded of how good F&W can be. But, I will agree with people here- sometimes not very many recipes.

Steve's ideas about a food oriented Atlantic Monthly/New Yorker are marvelous. Did anyone see the New Yorker's food issue they did this summer with an interview with Mario Batali and an article about NYC health inspectors. Fantastic writing.

[srhcb]

I can't figure out why Taste of Home never shows up on the lists of top-100 circulation magazines, for example:

http://www.infoplease.com/ipea/A0301522.html

What could be going on there?

WOW! Is that an eye-opening list or what?

How much of a future does the hard-copy magazine have anyway. looking ten years out? At what point will the spill over effect of traditional paper magazines vs captive web site publications start to favor the e-versions with all their attendent updating and linking advantages?

SB (loves and save magazines, but ........

[Jinmyo]

Steve, that sounds like the magazine I'm looking for.

Gastronomica can be interesting but also tedious. I don't read it from cover to cover as I do the Atlantic (except for fiction) and even the New Yorker (except for fiction).

[srhcb]

Smart like the Atlantic or New Republic or New Yorker but not pseudo-intellectual, pretentious, or irrelevant like Gastronomica.

A food magazine for smart, interesting people who love and care about food -- and love to read.

As a Gastronomica subscriber who considers himself quite unpseudo, unpretentious and relevant, I might characterize your depiction of the magazine in that light as perhaps a case of the "pot calling the kettle black".

Otherwise, I agree 100%, and you have my offer of any relevant support for such a venture, under whatever pretense, intellectual or otherwise.

Best Wishes, SB