Baking with Myhrvold's "Modernist Bread: The Art and Science"

[teonzo]

On 24/11/2017 at 1:39 AM, Chris Hennes said:

The S'Mores additions have been added to the last dough:

 

 

This sems like another case where simply scaling the recipe from big to small is not the best thing. If my memory serves right you studied engineering so you are good at math. Think about 2 spheres where you want to keep constant the difference in radius: the volume ratio is not costant if you change the radius. This is not the perfect analogy, just to point out that there is a limit on how thin you can (have sense to do) stretch a dough, so when you go very small you need to reduce the inclusion/dough ratio.

To avoid the explosion you need to pick a rolling pin and roll/stretch the exterior sides (the uncovered dough) as thin as possible, until you are able to close them without extending the covered dough. Bit of a PITA to do.

 

 

 

Teo

 

[teonzo]

1 hour ago, Anna N said:

I am becoming quite enamored of the cold proofing method except for the issue of refrigerator space.

 

Since you live in Canada I suppose you don't have much troubles on finding a cold place that is not a refrigerator... If you have double windows then try to check the temperature between them.

 

 

 

Teo

 

[Anna N]

24 minutes ago, teonzo said:

 

Since you live in Canada I suppose you don't have much troubles on finding a cold place that is not a refrigerator... If you have double windows then try to check the temperature between them.

 

 

 

Teo

 

 It’s not always cold here you know!   But I do take advantage of a window for my levains. As the temperature drops outside there will be more places inside that are conducive to lower temperatures. At the moment though I live in a very tiny house that is very well insulated and finding a cooler spot is challenging. 

[Anna N]

@teonzo

 

 For the most part the book offers 4 methods of mixing most doughs:

By hand

By spiral mixer

By stand mixer

By planetary mixer 

 

With a detailed explanation for each with each recipe. 

 

The books do stress the need to watch

and control temperature so as not to break the emulsion of a brioche.   They recommend cold liquids but soft butter. 

 

Sometimes I expect it is a matter of opinion how on executes certain steps.  For instance, your way of adding butter and salt and sugar together and their way may not be a case of right or wrong but just different. 

 

 Your suggestion to use the paddle attachment versus the dough hook is one I think makes sense. It is possible that this is covered in the books and I’ve simply missed it. 

 

 Your input continues to be appreciated. 

[Chris Hennes]

2 hours ago, teonzo said:

 

To get a good distribution of the inclusions I would suggest to add a fraction of them (say 1/5), make a simple fold, add another fraction, make another fold and so on.

 

 

 

Teo

 

Distribution isn’t a problem, though the technique they suggest is almost the opposite of the gentle approach of folding them in! Believe me, when I was done there the inclusions were included! I’ll try to take a video today to show it more clearly.

[Chris Hennes]

3 hours ago, teonzo said:

This sems like another case where simply scaling the recipe from big to small is not the best thing

I think that is a problem for sure. But as we ate the loaf I also questioned the end goal of a single layer of filling running through the loaf. I prefer the swirl approach, I think.

[Anna N]

So every day I find something new in the set of books and somebody will be happy to hear this little tidbit. 

 

This is about the Cuisinart steam oven and its use in baking.

 

I  quote directly:

The steam feature can help make a nice crust. Good for sourdough (or similar) boules. 

Shape an 850 g boule.

Preheat the oven to 450°F on the bake steam setting for about one hour.

Bake for 20 minutes.

Turn the boule 

around in the oven ( this will help it brown evenly). 

Bake for another 10 minutes.

 

This is NOT the way I have been using it.

 

 I shall mend my ways. 

[Raamo]

This morning I made the modernist hamburger buns.

 

This is what they looked like before baking, they sure sprung up a lot in the oven - I baked them in a normal oven on convection mode at 350 for 15 mins for 5 of them and 2 more for 2 to all get to about 200F.

 

Here's a picture right before they went into the oven.

 

And the first 2 cut (we had turkey confit on them, I'll post that in the lunch thread)

 

Next time I'll egg wash all the way down the sides of the top half, but this was the first time I've ever made hamburger buns.

 

Tonight I'm making homemade sloppy joes, so I'll be toasting the surface of the cut side to help with the liquid.  But these were very tasty

[Chris Hennes]

@Anna N, did you see the gorgeous photo spread on 2•423 showing the cereal swirls? It's not how the recipe for the cinnamon raisin bread says to do it, but I bet arranging things like they show there would give a lovely finished loaf.

[Anna N]

1 hour ago, Chris Hennes said:

@Anna N, did you see the gorgeous photo spread on 2•423 showing the cereal swirls? It's not how the recipe for the cinnamon raisin bread says to do it, but I bet arranging things like they show there would give a lovely finished loaf.

No I had not seen it. Or if I had it was very quickly and it hadn’t registered. Very beautiful indeed. There is so much in these books to admire.

Edited November 25, 2017 by Anna N
To delete dictation echo (log)

[Anna N]

 I have a question about the chocolate brioche — perhaps about all brioches. It is not a bread I am very familiar with at all. But I did get a text from my granddaughter which was not a complaint but just a comment that it is very crumbly. She said, “It’s still good but I have to be careful where I eat it,”.  I asked if it was equally crumbly yesterday when it was fresh and she said that it was. Is this the nature of the beast or is it a defect? Thanks. 

[Anna N]

1 hour ago, Raamo said:

This morning I made the modernist hamburger buns.

 I was very tempted to make hamburger buns this morning although not the modernist version. The whole wheat version called out to me as sandwich rolls rather than hamburger buns.  I don’t eat hamburgers.  Yours look very good as did @Chris Hennes‘s.  

[Wholemeal Crank]

And....wahoo!  I picked the right volumes when I put in my hold for MB at the library--for odd reasons I could only reserve 3 at once via a telephone hold.  I stopped by the central library to try to grab the other volumes, but the librarian and I couldn't find them even though they were listed as 'on the shelf'.

 

So.....I only have 3, and volume 3, techniques and equipment, has the section on pressure canning bread.  What to make, what to make, what to make....all those wide-mouth little canning jars would love to be filled with cheese rolls, or dried fruit sweet rolls, apple-pepper-cheddar bread, heh heh heh. 

[JoNorvelleWalker]

6 hours ago, Anna N said:

So every day I find something new in the set of books and somebody will be happy to hear this little tidbit. 

 

This is about the Cuisinart steam oven and its use in baking.

 

I  quote directly:

The steam feature can help make a nice crust. Good for sourdough (or similar) boules. 

Shape an 850 g boule.

Preheat the oven to 450°F on the bake steam setting for about one hour.

Bake for 20 minutes.

Turn the boule 

around in the oven ( this will help it brown evenly). 

Bake for another 10 minutes.

 

This is NOT the way I have been using it.

 

 I shall mend my ways. 

 

Page reference?

 

Thirty minutes of steam sounds like too much and I wonder what the boule is sitting on.  A 500 g boule barely fits for me, I can only wonder what an 850 g boule might do...but I want to find out.

 

If memory serves from the CSO thread someone a long time ago tested steam bake for bread and found it didn't work well.

 

[Anna N]

38 minutes ago, JoNorvelleWalker said:

 

Page reference?

 

Thirty minutes of steam sounds like too much and I wonder what the boule is sitting on.  A 500 g boule barely fits for me, I can only wonder what an 850 g boule might do...but I want to find out.

 

If memory serves from the CSO thread someone a long time ago tested steam bake for bread and found it didn't work well.

 

 The reference is page 5–297.  It appears to be baking in the baking pan that comes with the oven. 

 

 Edit to add

Cannot imagine why you would need to preheat a tiny oven like that for one hour. I wish the team was available to explain that. 

 

On the same page is a photograph of what I believe to be the Breville Smart Oven in which they are using a combi- cooker and they claim there  is room to put a lid on it. If it really works decently it would be far better for me because I can handle the weight at counter level but not bending over to use regular oven.  They are using a smaller 3 quart cast iron combination cooker. 

Edited November 25, 2017 by Anna N (log)

[Anna N]

One feature of the book which is very useful if you’re just starting out and are not sure where to begin is the section titled Choose Your Own Adventure. It begins in volume two on page 44 and offers you options as to how much time you want to take, how much flavor you want, whether you want to bake sourdough or rye breads. I could go on and on. It’s a fascinating section and includes charts for instance for Radical Recipes, another for Surprisingly Awesome Recipes, one that outlines New Techniques and one that lists Discoveries.    This section would make a perfect Quickstart brochure. 

[JoNorvelleWalker]

1 hour ago, Anna N said:

 The reference is page 5–297.  It appears to be baking in the baking pan that comes with the oven. 

 

 Edit to add

Cannot imagine why you would need to preheat a tiny oven like that for one hour. I wish the team was available to explain that. 

 

On the same page is a photograph of what I believe to be the Breville Smart Oven in which they are using a combi- cooker and they claim there  is room to put a lid on it. If it really works decently it would be far better for me because I can handle the weight at counter level but not bending over to use regular oven.  They are using a smaller 3 quart cast iron combination cooker. 

 

 

Thanks Anna!  ...though one might have expected this information in the chapter on "ovens".

 

I'm left with more questions than answers and I don't quite have the resources of The Cooking Lab.  I've been looking hard for the bread post where someone baked on steam bake rather than the bread setting and was left with soggy crust.  I don't believe I imagined it but so far google and my search skills fail me.

 

[Anna N]

Well I don’t know what to make of this. Is it possible that Nathan and his team are smarter than I am? 

 

 These two are the Walnut (and raisin) bread. Both were made as near as possible exactly the same. Both under went a very long cold proof in the refrigerator. 

 

 

The loaf in the the back was baked in my GE profile oven with ice cubes tossed in to produce steam. It baked for about 30 minutes. Initially at 500°F and then immediately dropped 470°F. 

 

 The loaf to the forefront in the photograph was baked in the Cuisinart steam oven.  I could not bring myself to preheat it for a full hour but it did get close to 30 minutes of preheat time at 450°F using the steam bake function. I had a cast aluminum plate also preheating in there. 

 

The bread was baked for 15 minutes before being  turned front to back and baked for another five minutes.

 

The internal temperature of both loaves reached ~ 200°F. 

 

There is some slight exaggeration in the photograph regarding the difference in the two sizes which I could not avoid no matter how many photos I took. But it is clear that there is more loft from the loaf that came out of the Cuisinart steam oven.

 

Hmmmm.......

[Raamo]

So finally - I made the bagels.

 

Here they are just after their overnight in the fridge, right before the dunk in lye + water:

 

The dough dries out really fast - so when you shape keep that in mind, Also the crust after 13+ hours in the fridge is hard so it's not really tested for proof in the same way it seems.

 

Anyway we baked them in an oven on a pizza stone and they turned out excellent for boring bagels (next time I'm adding in raisins and cinnamon):

 

Part of this bake is a test - how long they really last in the fridge (vs what the book says) since I'd like to make them on Sunday and eat them for breakfast during the week.  We keep our fridge colder then most so that might help.

 

[Chris Hennes]

38 minutes ago, Raamo said:

I'd like to make them on Sunday and eat them for breakfast during the week.

Any reason you don't want to freeze them? That seems to be the Modernist team's go-to storage solution.

[Raamo]

13 minutes ago, Chris Hennes said:

Any reason you don't want to freeze them? That seems to be the Modernist team's go-to storage solution.

 

Ease of access in the morning - I'm just curious how these will be come weds - other option is freeze a few and thaw them weds for rest of the week.

 

I toast them so if they dry out a bit it's not a big deal.

[Wholemeal Crank]

Before I go too far down the rabbit hole of canned bread.....wondering about the safety of it.  I've read the sections in volume 3 about pressure cooking loaves, and the section about canned breads, both baked in canning jars and pressure canned in the jars, but there is only one or two sentences about the safety of doing so, which describes how the anaerobic environment in the jar, if it properly vacuum seals during the process, keeps molds from growing. 

 

But:  what about botulism?   Thinking here about the meticulous care required when working with low-acid foods and canning safety--things cut to the exactly the right dimensions, not substituting things that might be denser/have different heat capacities, to make sure every bit of what is in the jar gets to 240 or 250 degrees to kill the botulism spores.  Bread is normally baked to much lower internal temperatures, and often with inclusions like fruit and nuts that would be verboten to just add to a recipe for soup or stew to be canned. Is any yeasted dough effectively acid enough to be protective?  What about nuts?

 

I will start as close to one of their recipes as I can stand, of course, milling the flour to match their recommended flours as best I can, but will be very cautious with the inclusions to start.

Edited November 26, 2017 by Wholemeal Crank (log)

[Anna N]

 If I were the type to cry over spilled milk I’d be drowning in tears about now. But I’m not.

 

Hamburger buns.  How difficult can that be? What could possibly go wrong? 

 

Well here it is. 

 

 I know how very long my GE profile oven takes to preheat. So long before I put my burger buns for their final proof I turned the oven to 375°F. I checked periodically and noted that it had reached 375. I keep a thermometer in there at all times. 

 

And so my buns are proofed and I open the oven door to slip the sheet pan in there with its eight lovely buns and stop dead in my tracks. If you’ve been baking bread as long as I have and especially if you’ve been baking every single day for the past couple of weeks you know the blast you get when you open a preheated oven. It was absent. The oven was barely warmer than room temperature.  I love this oven. Its Achilles’ heel is that it has a control pad which all too easily one can accidentally touch and turn off whatever was turned on. 

 

Now I had a tray full of perfectly proofed buns and nowhere to put them. I turned  the big oven back on and realized that it would take far too long to reach temperature so I stared for a minute at the Cuisinart steam oven. I turned it to 375°F convection bake and threw a thermometer in there.  I was now watching two ovens and praying to the kitchen god that one of them would eventually reach 375°F.

 

 The Cuisinart steam oven eventually did. I used scissors to cut around the parchment paper under each bun separating them from the whole shebang  and slipped three of them into the CSO on the cast aluminum plate .

 

 This was really only a partial solution because I still had five buns to cook and the Cuisinart seemed to accommodate only three at a time. 

 

 So I turned on the third oven—The Breville Smart oven. Now I was bobbing back-and-forth between three ovens checking the buns in one  and the thermometers in the other two.   All the while of course my buns are losing their perfect proof. 

 

 Eventually I was able to get them all cooked in the two small ovens. 

 

 

These five were cooked in two separate batches in the Cuisinart steam oven. 

 

 And these were baked in the Breville Smart oven. 

 

 All of them reached ~200-205°F.  

 

I think they will all be edible they are not the buns I set out to make when I got up this morning. 

 

 Apparently Nathan and his team forgot to promise me a rose garden. 

 

 

[Shelby]

They look beautiful, Anna!

[Anna N]

1 hour ago, Shelby said:

They look beautiful, Anna!

Thank you. You are always in my corner.