Chinese in Vancouver 2002 - 2006

[canucklehead]

Went to Sea Harbour (no. 3 road in Richmond) last week for dinner.

Right now - I think this place is the best for cantonese food. The service is very good, and flavors are very clean the preparation simple. In the middle of summer - the cantonese style of cooking really shines as it particularly ingredient based. It's all about the sourcing baby!

My brother and mother also went to Fisherman's Terrace in Aberdeen Mall and I had high hopes for it. But the food was sub-par (watery and tasteless crab) and the service was soooo poor that everyone was sure that they were on a hidden camera show.

Anyway - here are some pic's

Kim Il Jung bunker on the outside (I mean check out the fascist rising sun logo) and very pricey Versace on the inside.

But the important thing is the food:

Everything was very good - but the above items where the highlights for me (if I posted everything we ate - it would be revealing just how piggy my family is - it was almost more courses then the wedding banquet).

The fish maw soup was superb. It is basically fish float bladder in a thickened broth - so really it is all about the broth and here it was excellent. Clean and sweet - very good.

The chicken is a hand shredded (the restaurant describes it as 'hand-ripped) roasted chicken. Lots of five-spice powder flavour - this is one of their signiture dishes. The chicken meat is shredded off the bone and placed on top of the bones (cantonese people love cleaning the bones) and the skin - in one whole peice - is placed on top of the pile. Gooooood!

We had a three pound crab cooked in a black bean sauce and sweet pumpkin. The crab was spectacular - fresh briney sweet meat and soft roasted pumpkin (that is much closer to a butternut squash).

Sweet and sour pork - want can I say, I love the stuff when it is done right. Here they use the same cut of pork as for bbq pork (char sui) so it has a great balace of fat and meat. Excellently fried with a thin but crispy crust, and a sauce that is more tart than sweet. Perfect with a bowl of steamed rice.

For dessert - almond milk with egg whites. Tasted like a really great steamed almond milk - but egg whites reminded you that you were in a Chinese restaurant. If you were Chinese - the egg whites are 'smooth' - if you are not they probably would seem more 'bodily fluid' then anything else. Well I liked it and I am not ashamed to say so.

There were a number of courses (vegtable focused) that I did not take pictures of - but 10 people were fed for about $180 before tax and tip. A very good deal I think (they comped the dessert).

I think that they would love to see non-Chinese people in the place. It was all Chinese the night that I was there. The margins at these places must be pretty thin - nobody drinks and there is a lot of staff in these places. We had a waiter, server, and busser working our table.

[Ling]

^Fish maw soup is my absolute favourite Chinese soup!

[shelora]

Does anyone know of a place on No.3 rd. called Shiang? Anyone been? Any good?

[Ling]

^Is it Shiang Garden?

[shelora]

Yes. Thankyou Ling! Shiang Garden. If you've eaten there, how does it compare to Sun Sui Wah?

s

[BCinBC]

I think that they would love to see non-Chinese people in the place.  It was all Chinese the night that I was there.

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Here is the problem:

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The storefront screams Silly Happy Blue Cat Anime, and the sign might as well say Do Not Enter (Unless You Can Read This). This is a common problem in Richmond (the non-English signs), one that has even gone to city council.

People have a right to put just about anything up on their own establishment. However, being a born-here Chinese person who cannot read Chinese, I don't find that type of establishment particularly inviting. What do non-Chinese people think? Same or no?

Some free, if somewhat obvious advice: if restauranteurs truly do want more non-Chinese people in these places, make an effort with the language barrier. Draw people in to sample the food; once they've tried it and enjoyed it, they will return.

[sanrensho]

People have a right to put just about anything up on their own establishment. However, being a born-here Chinese person who cannot read Chinese, I don't find that type of establishment particularly inviting. What do non-Chinese people think? Same or no?

I'm not Chinese, but I can read Chinese characters. I wouldn't hesitate for a second to go there.

[canucklehead]

Went back to Sea Harbour again because my mother wanted the Crab with Japanese Pumpkin - the waiter said it was their best seller with 70% of the tables ordering it.

Word of warning - the seafood at these places are not cheap - a 3lb+ Crab dish cost us $51 dollars. You've got to be careful in how you order - we were quoted $30/lb for rock cod - which we did NOT order. We generally limit our seafood to one item.

Anyways - went back and had the Squab and Braised Pork Belly (Dong Buo Ro):

The squab was pretty scrawny - we were told that it was because they were 'babies' with tender meat and crispy skin. Well the skin was good - but a $15 a pop - would have liked more meat.

The pork belly was divine. Soft, succulent, deeply flavored - the perfect thing for a big bowl of rice.... This is a cantonese take on a Northern China dish - so it was less vinigery and perhaps more 'refined' - but damn it was good. I think it was about $15 for the dish - good deal.

The general rule of thumb on the number of dishes is to get one less than the number of diners (for at least 4 diners). For the most part you will always order three dishes. We had 5 dishes for 6 people (dishes were the Squab, Pork Belly, Crab w/ Japanese Pumpkin, Stir Fried Pork and Chayote, Hand Shredded Chicken) and dinner was about $160 before tips. Not bad really. Then again - no one ever drinks at these places.

Saw 3 white people! And 2 of them were dining alone (and they looked like they were serious experts - they ate sea cucumber (yechhh!)). I felt rush of world harmony wash over me as I reached out to my bretheren of all colours.

[canucklehead]

Does anyone know of any good halal/muslim chinese places in Vancouver?  I keep hearing that they exist but I haven't been able to find one and since I don't get down to LA very often anymore I am really craving.  There are none to be found in Seattle.

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May I recommend a close (-enough) replacement called Kedah? It's Malaysian and very much halal/muslim. One of the best and authentic Malaysian restaurants in town. And the prices are *INCREDIBLE*!

5750 Fraser Street: 604 325-9771

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I went a couple of nights ago and Kedah House is excellent indeed. Very authentic and delicous - also they recreated the tropics by turning off their a/c and leaving me to sweat profusely through my dress shirt - it looked like one of those see through Philipino shirts by the end of dinner.

Everything was deeply spiced and you could taste whole spices. The satays tasted wonderful - not overly marinated as at Mui Garden. Meat is generally cooked on the bone - which adds alot of flavor. The Lamb Briyani had whole cumin seeds, aged basmati rice and star anise.

The real capper was dessert - Iced Kacang. This is a devisive dessert - as I think only those was a real love of Asian food can like it - and it was fantastic.

Soft shaved ice (I mean the ice was like snow flakes) dressed with a pink fruity syrup, condensed milk - and here are the kickers - red beans and bits of agar jelly. It was so good it made my head swim - I was burning up and it was like a cool salvation in a little bowl. The consistency is like when ice cream is prefectly soft. Sweet, cold, and refreshing without being cloying or too filling. AAAAAH - I am not kidding when I say it was the best summer dessert I have had this year.

Just thinking about the Ice Kacang makes me smile to myself....

[BCinBC]

People have a right to put just about anything up on their own establishment. However, being a born-here Chinese person who cannot read Chinese, I don't find that type of establishment particularly inviting. What do non-Chinese people think? Same or no?

I'm not Chinese, but I can read Chinese characters. I wouldn't hesitate for a second to go there.

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You have obviously made an effort on the language barrier, except in the opposite direction. This is great. Not everyone is able to do so. Also you seem quite enthusiastic about the place, so I'm curious what the sign says. "Incredible Treasures Await Your Mouth, Step Inside"? "Meaning Of Life Found Through These Doors"?

[BCinBC]

The real capper was dessert - Iced Kacang.  This is a devisive dessert - as I think only those was a real love of Asian food can like it - and it was fantastic. 

Soft shaved ice (I mean the ice was like snow flakes) dressed with a pink fruity syrup, condensed milk - and here are the kickers - red beans and bits of agar jelly. It was so good it made my head swim - I was burning up and it was like a cool salvation in a little bowl.  The consistency is like when ice cream is prefectly soft. Sweet, cold, and refreshing without being cloying or too filling.  AAAAAH - I am not kidding when I say it was the best summer dessert I have had this year. 

Just thinking about the Ice Kacang makes me smile to myself....

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Lee, this sounds very much like the halo halo Joie made, complete with red beans (I left all mine in the bottom of my cup - a trick I learned by watching my dog eat something with peas in it). So are iced kacang and halo halo the same, similar or totally different?

[sanrensho]

You have obviously made an effort on the language barrier, except in the opposite direction. This is great. Not everyone is able to do so. Also you seem quite enthusiastic about the place, so I'm curious what the sign says.

My point was actually twofold:

1. Some non-Chinese people have a grasp of the (written) language, generalizations aside. In my case, I happen to be Japanese-Canadian. And I don't know a single native Japanese speaker (every one of them non-Chinese) who would hesitate for a second to walk into that establishment.

2. It doesn't matter whether the sign is in Farsi, Chinese or Vietnamese--if I the food is promising, I'm going in.

[snacky_cat]

The Cat family has been making weekly pilgrimages for Chinese food for the better part of a decade - call us Occidental Tourists, if you will - and have never been frightened off by Chinese-only signs. Indeed, it is the opinion of this humble clan of bohunks that generally the less English and the less white clientele, the better.

We are, with the exception of the sole Briton in the group, quite gastronomically adventurous, and PapaCat is always up for authenticity. So the same spirit that takes us to BBQ joints on the wrong side of the wrong side of the tracks in inner city America and makes us wander San Francisco for 3 hours on foot looking for a Beatnik-era cafe that Dad last saw 30 years ago often brings us to Chinese restaurants that don't see a lot of white clientele. We find the food is much more interesting (no Kung Pao Chicken or General Tso Beef) and we're more inclined to try novel foodstuffs. Tripe, for instance, is something that, were it properly translated on a whitey-friendly menu, we would probably skip over. On the other hand, when we're at a restaurant with little English and we point to a dish arriving at a nearby table (which is tripe, unbeknownst to us) and say "Give us one of those" (or, more accurately, we point wildy and gesticulate and say "one! one!"), we end up trying - and LOVING - something we would have shied away from.

There's also the novelty factor involved - we have had great luck wandering into packed Asian-oriented establishments in the middle of dinner and managing to score a table, just because the front of house guy is so amused that a family of loud, crazy-looking white folk showed up for soup buns.

So we're pro-non-English. In fact, the Crazy Sun Blue Moon Mega Gold Food Palace, or whatever it was that Lee visited, is now on our list. We're even bringing our Jewish friend from Texas on our next outing.

[sanrensho]

There's also the novelty factor involved - we have had great luck wandering into packed Asian-oriented establishments in the middle of dinner and managing to score a table, just because the front of house guy is so amused that a family of loud, crazy-looking white folk showed up for soup buns.

I totally agree with this. In the situations you described, you're actually much more likely to get extra attentive service.

[canucklehead]

Lee, this sounds very much like the halo halo Joie made, complete with red beans (I left all mine in the bottom of my cup - a trick I learned by watching my dog eat something with peas in it). So are iced kacang and halo halo the same, similar or totally different?

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The Ice Kacang and Halo Halo are a variation on a theme. The Ice Kacang at Kedah had way less 'stuff' than Joie's version. So it was more like smooth ice cream - but lighter and less sweet.

Go for the curries, roti's, gado gado - and try one of the kacangs - maybe you will be suprised.

[BCinBC]

Indeed, it is the opinion of this humble clan of bohunks that generally the less English and the less white clientele, the better.

You are right, I absolutely agree with the latter part as a general rule. (Well, the flip side - that the more [ethnicity of restaurant] people I see in there, the better.)

However, having a Chinese-only sign will most likely foster a Chinese-only or let's say Chinese-mostly clientele. By default, would I assume that it's a place I want to patronise? No I wouldn't.

There is a disconnect in the food and the service at places like this, and this is where I'm more concerned when I step inside. I have had experiences where the people in the restaurant are talking about me in Chinese, and because I don't read Chinese, they've assumed that I also don't understand it. Regardless of what they say, I find this rude. If they happen to be saying something disparaging, well... Shit, meet fan.

I am not saying that every place with a Chinese-only sign is like this, or even that most of them are like this. But like I said, unless there is something that specifically pulls me in, I probably won't subject myself or my wife to potential discomfort just because.

Tripe, for instance, is something that, were it properly translated on a whitey-friendly menu, we would probably skip over. On the other hand, when we're at a restaurant with little English and we point to a dish arriving at a nearby table (which is tripe, unbeknownst to us) and say "Give us one of those" (or, more accurately, we point wildy and gesticulate and say "one! one!"), we end up trying - and LOVING - something we would have shied away from.

This is very adventurous of you. I most recently tried tripe again about 3 months ago, just to see if I like it yet. Still no.

I don't know if you've ever been to a Chinese banquet where one of the courses was this long stringy black fungus. It looks quite gross (IMO). When we were kids we called it "[my sister's name]'s hair", and proceed to not eat any (unless I wanted to gross out my sister, in which case I would eat some with a big smile). I have since tried it, again just to see if I like it. Nope. It doesn't taste bad, it just looks terrible.

What I'm wondering is, are things not aesthetically pleasing more likely to be pointed at and ordered? Does it add to the adventurousness? Question's open to anyone, I'm really curious.

In fact, the Crazy Sun Blue Moon Mega Gold Food Palace, or whatever it was that Lee visited, is now on our list. We're even bringing our Jewish friend from Texas on our next outing. 

Okay, I knew you were going to say something like this Snacky. Unfortunately I've seen you buying a Silly Happy Blue Cat Anime shower cap, while naming all the Hello Kitty and Pokemon characters that appeared on various stationary / mugs / inspirational school bags. So far, you are in the minority of white people I know. This is not a bad thing, it is in fact in a very odd way endearing. But definitely not common.

Edited to add: thanks for the reply! Let us know how it goes with your Jewish Texan friend, and take photos. At least a few people on here should be able to identify what you ate after the fact...

Edited August 18, 2005 by BCinBC (log)

[sanrensho]

However, having a Chinese-only sign will most likely foster a Chinese-only or let's say Chinese-mostly clientele. By default, would I assume that it's a place I want to patronise? No I wouldn't.

I'll go a step further. Someone please send me a list of all the places in Vancouver that have Chinese/Farsi/Japanese/Vietnamese/Turkish/Punjabi-only signs and menus. Those restaurants will be at the top of my list for places to find food that isn't watered down.

[BCinBC]

However, having a Chinese-only sign will most likely foster a Chinese-only or let's say Chinese-mostly clientele. By default, would I assume that it's a place I want to patronise? No I wouldn't.

I'll go a step further. Someone please send me a list of all the places in Vancouver that have Chinese/Farsi/Japanese/Vietnamese/Turkish/Punjabi-only signs and menus. Those restaurants will be at the top of my list for places to find food that isn't watered down.

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The next paragraph after the part you quoted actually contained my point (staff talking about you). Perhaps it's only because I could understand what they were saying that I had issue in the past.

But yes I agree with you that these places would offer a very good likelyhood of "authentic" food - (authentic assumes you know what type of restaurant you just walked into: Cantonese - mainland or Hong Kong, Sechuan, Shanghai-ese... or other).

When Mr and Mrs eGullet get a craving for Ukranian, they may seek out all the storefronts with Ukraininan-only signs (NOT Russian, Ukranian). But what about the other 99% of the general non-Ukranian population, how does the Ukranian-only restaurant pull them in?

Again I say put something into the signage that is in English, even if it is merely a phonetic spelling of what the other characters say. Better would be to state what type of cuisine you are offering. Doing this doesn't mean that you've caved and have to serve "watered down" cuisine.

1st Hunan Restaurant on Main and Marine. Simple name, menus A and B in Chinese and English, specials in Chinese only... But you get a craving for Hunan, and you think hey let's go to 1st Hunan. You can read a menu, even if it is menu B, or you can close the menu and ask them to make you something "authentic".

Or how about the Budapest on Main? It's named after a city with an English-language name already, how convenient. And you know it's Hungarian. I've got it on pretty good word that it's authentic.

Anyway, my original point way back when was that there are some Chinese places in Richmond that are not making any effort, so I question whether they are sincerely trying to attract non-Chinese people in.

[makanmakan]

Does anyone know of any good halal/muslim chinese places in Vancouver?  I keep hearing that they exist but I haven't been able to find one and since I don't get down to LA very often anymore I am really craving.  There are none to be found in Seattle.

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May I recommend a close (-enough) replacement called Kedah? It's Malaysian and very much halal/muslim. One of the best and authentic Malaysian restaurants in town. And the prices are *INCREDIBLE*!

5750 Fraser Street: 604 325-9771

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I went a couple of nights ago and Kedah House is excellent indeed. Very authentic and delicous - also they recreated the tropics by turning off their a/c and leaving me to sweat profusely through my dress shirt - it looked like one of those see through Philipino shirts by the end of dinner.

Everything was deeply spiced and you could taste whole spices. The satays tasted wonderful - not overly marinated as at Mui Garden. Meat is generally cooked on the bone - which adds alot of flavor. The Lamb Briyani had whole cumin seeds, aged basmati rice and star anise.

The real capper was dessert - Iced Kacang. This is a devisive dessert - as I think only those was a real love of Asian food can like it - and it was fantastic.

Soft shaved ice (I mean the ice was like snow flakes) dressed with a pink fruity syrup, condensed milk - and here are the kickers - red beans and bits of agar jelly. It was so good it made my head swim - I was burning up and it was like a cool salvation in a little bowl. The consistency is like when ice cream is prefectly soft. Sweet, cold, and refreshing without being cloying or too filling. AAAAAH - I am not kidding when I say it was the best summer dessert I have had this year.

Just thinking about the Ice Kacang makes me smile to myself....

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hello! my family and i think that kedah house has the most authentic malaysian food in town. we came over in the late 80's and missed the food the most. the banana leaf on broadway was always the choice until kedah house opened. the satay there is served exactly how it is served back home....with the cucumber and pineapple chunks and the rice cakes (ketupat). sigh.

now, i have a question for you, how was your service? i've found that the last few times i've been there, with both family and friends, the service from the dad was always great (just like back home, relaxed but casually friendly), but when the son is serving us, we get tremendous attitude. almost like it's a giant burden. leaves me kinda shellshocked, to tell you the truth. we've stopped going there because it makes us extremely uncomfortable. double sigh. we miss the food though.....

as for the food, other must tries are the lamb bryani, sambal kangkong (if it's in season...it's a malaysian water spinach), mee goreng, and grilled fish. if you liked the ais kacang, give the cendol a try! it's more like a drink, but oh, so coconut milky and lots of yummy pandan flavored jelly bits! speaking of drinks, the teh tarik is quite good too there....malaysian pulled tea. we have to have our gimmicks too!!

last sigh...i promise

[Keith Talent]

However, having a Chinese-only sign will most likely foster a Chinese-only or let's say Chinese-mostly clientele. By default, would I assume that it's a place I want to patronise? No I wouldn't.

There is a disconnect in the food and the service at places like this, and this is where I'm more concerned when I step inside. I have had experiences where the people in the restaurant are talking about me in Chinese, and because I don't read Chinese, they've assumed that I also don't understand it. Regardless of what they say, I find this rude. If they happen to be saying something disparaging, well... Shit, meet fan.

I don't get this either. I think it's one of those cases where a little communication and dialogue would go a long way. As an english speaker I can understand how the Chinese only signs seem kinda passive aggresive, but I suspect the intent is nothing of the sort. Whether the proprietor feels he doesn't want to make a cuacasian uncomfortable by serving food the customer may not like, or some other reason, I don't think it's intentionally "honky stay out" or some other negative conotation that the white/non Chinese speaking clientele assumes. I think that is an oversimplication of the restaurantuers intent.

Ask your Aunt that runs the restaurant, I'd be interested in her theroy.

[canucklehead]

now, i have a question for you, how was your service?  i've found that the last few times i've been there, with both family and friends, the service from the dad was always great (just like back home, relaxed but casually friendly), but when the son is serving us, we get tremendous attitude.  almost like it's a giant burden.  leaves me kinda shellshocked, to tell you the truth.  we've stopped going there because it makes us extremely uncomfortable.  double sigh.  we miss the food though.....

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The service was actually fine - the son was serving us and if anything, he seemed like he was trying to get on top of things and was working hard to keep up. I think the trick was our Chinese brusqeness - we ordered alot and kept him on his toes. The father cooking out back looked mean - but was in fact very nice. Perhaps this is a case of Hong Kong style of forwardness working - we were polite and nice, but we were there to eat - not to make friends with our waiter and that attitude conveys itself in all sorts of ways. My cousin has been a number of times and likes it alot - I don't she has ever noticed any real service issues.

As an english speaker I can understand how the Chinese only signs seem kinda passive aggresive, but I suspect the intent is nothing of the sort. Whether the proprietor feels he doesn't want to make a cuacasian uncomfortable by serving food the customer may not like, or some other reason, I don't think it's intentionally "honky stay out" or some other negative conotation that the white/non Chinese speaking clientele assumes. I think that is an oversimplication of the restaurantuers intent.

For Chinese restaurants, its all about quality food an efficient business model.

In Richmond - Chinese Restaurants have a monied and knowledgable clientele who are willing to spend money on good food. Everyone (the waiters, hosts, and customers) know their roles and what is expected of each party in the dining transaction. The Chinese are completely comfortable with brutal economic Darwinism with restaurants - if the food is not up to standards then they deserve to fail. Restauranteers know that they are dealing with fussy and knowledgable eaters - so if they falter, they will quickly have to work out a new business plan. Simple and it works in maintaining standards. If anything, the tougher economics in Vancouver have sharpended these realities even more. I have heard - the quality found in certain Cantonese restaurants in Vancouver is as good or better then in HK (Sea Harbour is in the category right now).

In many ways - waiters try not to be too helpful - in a funny way, it conveys that an assumption has been made that the diner knows what they are doing when they ordering. For a Chinese restaurant, these sublte social cues (that the diner is in control) are a part of 'good' service.

This does not mean that you cannot ask questions - but they are expected to intelligent questions. Show that you have food knowledge and are interested having good food.

What is the house speciality? What does the waiter recommend? It is okay to balk at pricey seafood - but also be comfortable when you are paying for quality (I think that a $50 dollar crab dish is pricey - but in the context the rest of what we ordered - it was alright). Look at what others are ordering. If you have one pricey dish - than stick to basic dishes for the rest of the menu. You should have a variety of foods (ie - different types of meat) and perparations (a deep fried dish, some stir fried items, maybe a braised dish). For cantonese restaurants - ordering a 'balanced' menu is conveys a good sense of food.

At the end of the day - in Chinese restaurants - you are in charge of the dining experience and you should take charge of what you would like to eat and how much you are going to spend. The restaurants are trying to efficient - even in the best restaurants, people tend to eat and leave. The margins are all in the food as Chinese people rarely drink with thier meals (my Aunt's glaze over with envy when I tell her about people having a wine paired with each of their courses at egullet events) so tables are turned quickly.

I know that it seems like such a maze - and I've got to admit that I like having my Aunt or another older relative with me when I first try a new place so that I can get the lay of the land. But I apply the same general principles to whatever new restaurant I am trying out. Regardless of the cultural barriers.

[sanrensho]

The next paragraph after the part you quoted actually contained my point (staff talking about you). Perhaps it's only because I could understand what they were saying that I had issue in the past.

Believe me, I have had the same experiences outside of Canada, so I understand where you are coming from. For that matter, since every Chinese restaurant I walk into assumes that I am Chinese, and since I (hopefully) do not look like a typical Japanese tourist/exchange student, they could very well be saying the same things about me. Of course, I have the distinct advantage of being oblivious to anything that might be said.

Again I say put something into the signage that is in English, even if it is merely a phonetic spelling of what the other characters say. Better would be to state what type of cuisine you are offering. Doing this doesn't mean that you've caved and have to serve "watered down" cuisine.

Anyway, my original point way back when was that there are some Chinese places in Richmond that are not making any effort, so I question whether they are sincerely trying to attract non-Chinese people in.

The fact is, these restaurants are NOT trying to attract non-Chinese clientele, because they don't need to. The reason is simple economics, rather than some nefarious plot to exclude Keith Talent from tonight's seating. It seems to me that you're real beef should be with the non-English speaking customer base that enables such a restaurant to survive.

I hope we never see Quebec-style language laws that require English or phoneticized signage, something that has come up before in certain city councils. What a waste of resources and taxpayer money that would be. Let the businesses decide what they want to do.

[Keith Talent]

Not like it matters, but I have no beef with anyone regarding the language the want to use for their signage. I just find it curious on an intellectual level as it seems to go against basic business principles.

Perhaps these places do want caucasian business, after all green is far more important than skin, but want a customer that is adventureous and appreciative, rather than those looking for a really good BBQ pork chow mein.

[BCinBC]

Interesting discussion.

At the end of the day yes I agree with Canucklehead and Sanrensho that the Chinese restauranteurs will do what they must in order to survive - whether that be upholding very high food standards (which most will do) or trying to open their door, so to speak, to a wider band of patrons (which some may try to do). And that they don't need to do the latter, if they're already doing the former.

Does a business owner have a right to post a Chinese-only sign? Absolutely, as I said before. Is it intentionally trying to keep out the White Wave? No, I suppose not. That is the completely opposite of what a successful business person would want - to exclude clientele. But yes Keith I do still think it is a passive demotivator, maybe not to you or anyone on eGullet, but to your average person. Then again, as you said, your average person may only be looking for BBQ Pork Chow Mein anyway, and not necessarily The Best $50 Crab.

So after all this, I vote for an eG outing to the Mega Happy But Misleading Rising Sun Cantonese place - led by Canucklehead. Personally I love the over-the-top crab / lobster / rock cod dishes, but really only eat them when I'm with my Mom or elder relative, who is doing the ordering (same reasons). By now I'm comfortable saying that Lee is like a big virtual brother, so why not exploit this relationship for some sweet-ass crab? (Figuratively; I don't usually eat crab ass. Lobster ass, though... [drool])

Cheers.

[BCinBC]

N and I went for a quick bowl of noodles last night at Daimo on Granville and 66th or so. It has: 1. the obligatory Cash Only sign, 2. surly-Auntie service, 3. an almost exclusive Chinese clientele. (4. It also has the English words "Daimo Noodle House" on the sign.) And I like it.

I had beef brisket in noodles, a childhood favourite; N had tomato chicken on rice (which IMO is being done too sweet everywhere, when I make it - not with chicken - I leave some tang in the tomatoes). Anyway, the rice was late coming out so I had to stumble through my broken Cantonese to get one of the surly-Auntie waitresses to check on it for us. She smiled knowlingly, relishing in me breaking into a sweat while running translations in my head before forcing the words out in a totally westernized accent. In a way, it was funny. But since I'm fairly regular here and the ladies know me (I think), I'm okay with this. I most likely would not try this in a place I just walked into though, I'd just switch to English.