Chinese in Vancouver 2002 - 2006

[ExtraMSG]

I have some acquaitances who go on a weeklong trip to Richmond/Vancouver regularly just for Chinese/Dim Sum. They recently made a guide that I got a copy of. Some of them are rated, so I thought I'd just list the 3 and 4 stars in alphabetical order:

Fortune Restaurant

650 W 41st Ave, Vanc.

****

Imperial Chinese Seafood

355 Burrand St., Vanc.

***

Kingford Seafood Restaurant

200-5890 No. 3 Road, Richmond

****

Kirin Seafood

http://www.kirinrestaurant.com

200-7900 Westminister Hwy, Richmond

****

Richmond Mandarin Restaurant

(formerly President Chinese Seafood)

2200 President Plaza, 8181 Cambie St, Richmond

***

Shanghai Chinese Bistro

1124 Alberni St, Vanc.

***

Shiang Garden Seafood Restaurant

Unit 2200 Empire Ctr, 4540 No. 3 Road, Richmond

****

They have 34 Dim Sum restaurants on their list, but there are some they haven't been to yet.

Hope this helps.

[ilovelivarot]

I'm going to be up in Vancouver soon, and I've heard that the chinatown up there is great. Wondering if I could get some recomendations of good places to go, thanks!

[Sam Salmon]

Vancouver + suburbs must equal 2 million people-and something like 20% of those are from the Chinese homeland or somewhere in the diaspora-that equals a lot of restaurants.

Chinatown in the older part of Vancouver is OK for a visit but the thriving mall culture in Richmond is closer to life in present day Asia.

You'll need to be somewhat more specific in terms of what kind of cuisine interests you and a search through the old posts will give you an idea of the volume of choice of offer.

[ilovelivarot]

WOW I didn't realize it was that big, I have only briefly been there, and never to the Chinatown, so I don't have much of an idea. I'll look through some older posts though, and if anybody has a favorite place, post it. thanks.

[Lois]

I was just there, and one highlight was Legendary Noodle, at 4191 Main. The guy hand-pulls the noodles while you eat, and the lamb soup with noodles was fantastic (and cheap). I also got pea shoots with garlic, which were delicious.

In Chinatown, try Phnom Penh, which is actually Cambodian but very good. There is also a Hong Kong-style bakery/teahouse called The Boss, which I heard very good things about, but it was too crowded (and I had already eaten too much) the day I stopped in.

I have Richmond recommendations too, as I got to spend a couple of days there, but will wait and see what you want specifically.

[Derek Diggler]

pho van

flotah dimsum resteraunt

[ilovelivarot]

hmm, well since it sounds like there are a lot of places, I'll narrow it down to shellfish, I think that's pretty specific. I'm a big oyster fan so anywhere that has good oysters would be good for me.

[canucklehead]

Instead of hijacking Appreciator's chinese take out conversation - I thought I would revive this thread just to talk about Chinese food that people have had lately.

I went to Sea Harbour restaurant on No.3 in Richmond. If you want to see how Kim Il Jung lives - go to this place. The exterior looks like a bunker and they have a security guard, patrolling the parking lot against break-ins. The signage is so ugly - it seems like a cruel prank.

But when you get inside - it's like opening a present (a gag gift really). Apparently - the entire room's decor, dishes, and furniture was designed and made in China, boxed in a container, and shipped over to Richmond for assembly -and it shows. It's like Versace meets Night Market.

The food though is very very good.

Started with the homemade broth of the night - which was watercress with pork and conch meat. Sweet, clean, and clear - it was warming start to the meal. The dishes to share where a boneless pulled roasted chicken, steamed meat w/preserved vegatable served with mustard greens, and.... sweet and sour pork. Okay - it is impossible to translate Chinese food dishes without making them sound terrible - and I mean I think my english is not bad.

The roasted chicken had a five spice powder flavor to it - really delicous. The steamed meat and veggie was very homestyle and perfectly executed. The sweet and sour pork was very very good - nice sharp sauce napping crisp pork that was a good mix of lean and fatty meat. Good - trust me! Total cost was $78 before tip. We did not eat alot of rice (even Asians are embracing low carbs) and there was not need as there was alot of food.

Now they had lots of stuff on their menu that were really luxury items, goose liver, abalone, sharks fin soup - but I never really like that stuff for some reason. I sawy other tables having really plump and meaty dungeness crabs - this really is a good crab season.

Dessert was a almond hot cream with coddled egg whites - again it was good - trust me!

I can see why going to these kinds of places can seem intimating - I mean I needed my Aunt with me.

[Peter Rodgers]

No one who is watching the Vancouver real estate scene would believe that the Asian money is out of the market. That said, the last year or two has been less than exciting in terms of new openings and there have been a few notable losses of very good restaurants -- particularly the Fook Yuen Palace in Richmond, which just might have been the best restaurant in the region.

Nevertheless, there is plenty to try. All of the Kirin restaurants are well worth a visit, although the best are the outlet on Cambie downtown and the location in Richmond. Try the fresh crab hot pot in black bean sauce and the superb Peking Duck -- each memorable. There are also worthy additions like the Jade in Richmond (especially for dim sum) and the recently relocated Fisherman's Terrace in the new Aberdeen Center in Richmond (but avoid from the fresh seafood). Sun Sui Wah continues to excel for dim sum and seafood. But stay away from everything in Chinatown.

[Ling]

Dessert was a almond hot cream with coddled egg whites - again it was good - trust me! 

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Do you mean "dun dan"? Do they have ginger-flavoured ones? Those are one of my favourite Chinese desserts.

[canucklehead]

Dessert was a almond hot cream with coddled egg whites - again it was good - trust me! 

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Do you mean "dun dan"? Do they have ginger-flavoured ones? Those are one of my favourite Chinese desserts.

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No - it was 'dun dan' or steamed eggs - it was what they called 'almond tea w/ egg whites'. It was nice and soothing and good. Gosh - I wish that Chinese food had nice romantic sound names - even when the food is good - the translations always sound like a science project.

[Keith Talent]

Uhhh, it's not the names that are offputting with chinese deserts. As you know, I have nothing but respect and admiration for the chinese. Your culture is 6000 years old. You still haven't made a good desert. Maybe time to give up. Your culture has had untold triumphs, technological and artistic, sweets are not among them. They don't sound like science projects, they are science projects. No one with a clue about desert creation would think to themselves "yeah, this custard is pretty good. But it still needs something. Hmmm. I know! Beans! Yeah, if I throw some red beans in here, people will soon forget about the cakes of Vienna and the pastries of Paris, the Chinese will agian be triumphant!"

Two words. Bubble Tea. Stop it. Now.

[Keith Talent]

Anyone try the imaginatevly named new place on Saba Road "Szechwan Restaurant"? We've gone twice, once for dim sum and again tonight, but haven't actually eaten there yet. The dim sum line was too long. (It's hell to be a dim sum fan, yet also to refuse to stand in line. It pretty much ensures a lifetime of mediocre dim sum.) And tonight we didn't stay becuase the menu was too pricey for somewhere to take the kids. (The amount they eat is inversely proportional to the price. They could bankrupt me at Lumiere or Tojo's.)

The interior is gorgeous, all chinese antiques and private rooms. Prices are very expensive, ranging between 15 and 30 bucks, much higher for seafood (Xiandu Abalone & Turtle $688!)

I'm very interested in trying it, and would love to hear if anyone else has.

[canucklehead]

Anyone try the imaginatevly named new place on Saba Road "Szechwan Restaurant"? We've gone twice, once for dim sum and again tonight, but haven't actually eaten there yet. The dim sum line was too long. (It's hell to be a dim sum fan, yet also to refuse to stand in line. It pretty much ensures a lifetime of mediocre dim sum.) And tonight we didn't stay becuase the menu was too pricey for somewhere to take the kids. (The amount they eat is inversely proportional to the price. They could bankrupt me at Lumiere or Tojo's.)

The interior is gorgeous, all chinese antiques and private rooms. Prices are very expensive, ranging between 15 and 30 bucks, much higher for seafood (Xiandu Abalone & Turtle $688!)

I'm very interested in trying it, and would love to hear if anyone else has.

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I have spoken to my Richmond contacts who tell me that KT, you have good taste. My contacts were just speaking of it today and said that the restaurant is very good and quite authentic. What 'authentic' means is that the food is very spicy. In fact it is "numbingly hot" - the kind where your lips get swollen and turn a dark shade of black.

So - I am off to try it with a favored Aunt this coming Wednesday (very Asian thing - you always have an older eating companion who will guide you through the menu and -hopefully pay).

When I mentioned to her someone on this website was curious about it - she said that she was not sure if the "Canadian Palate" could handle it. Well - if that is'nt some sort of challenge - I don't know what is.

KT - I hope we are referring to the same place, smallish (about 10 tables) but very nice. Since I have not been yet - I cannot say what is good.

>>> edited to add - why don't you call ahead and make a reservation? Only mediocre places would not accept reservations.

Edited June 10, 2005 by canucklehead (log)

[Feedbag]

"... a dark shade of black."

Huh?

Would love to see a light shade of black :)

In any case, do tell all about this lip-swelling,

teeth-cracking, ear-steaming, eyeball-melting spicy food!

I used to go to Szechuan Chongqing on Kingsway and

Willingdon in Burnaby - until the health board shut it down.

I even kept going after finding a mothball in a dish, it was so good.

The one on Commercial and Broadway doesn't seem to be

doing as well, but I get there as often as I can for the

fried green beans alone. Not exactly tongue-splittingly spicy, but

good all the same.

Agree the Chinese here in Vancouver is the best in North America.

Even better in China, although I didn't sample from all regions; I

would have loved to have tried Szechuan and Hunan provinces to

see if the source of the spice was just as good as here and Hong Kong.

In fact, anyone know why there are so few Hunan Chinese restaurants

here in Vancouver? I've only heard of one but never tried it. It's

even spicier than Szechuan, so I'd love to find a local outlet.

[nondual1]

Anyone try the imaginatevly named new place on Saba Road "Szechwan Restaurant"?

←

I have spoken to my Richmond contacts who tell me that KT, you have good taste. My contacts were just speaking of it today and said that the restaurant is very good and quite authentic. What 'authentic' means is that the food is very spicy. In fact it is "numbingly hot" - the kind where your lips get swollen and turn a dark shade of black.

←

Been there. I like some of the dishes but find the whole experience a little too contrived -- faux antiques (reportedly the owners spent $600K on the decor, quite a sum for a Chinese restaurant) that aren't comfortable to sit on; tea brewed with "mineral water" that, unfortunately, is not hot enough to bring out the flavour; too many flashy dishes that, again unfortunately, are not done all that well, but merely offered for show; hoakily-dressed servers (Are those guys servers or kung-fu fighters, anyway? ) who have yet to learn how to serve. In other words, you go there to "eat the house" instead of the food. I suppose some people do like to do that, just not me. And definitely not at these prices.

Some native Sichuan folks reported that, having eaten there, the food is not really as authentic as they'd like. Non-Sichuan natives, on the other hand, might appreciate the adapted taste it offers. It's more worthwhile to go for lunch, as it has two options for sets of "xiao chi" or "little dishes," which are Chengdu-style dim sum. That way, you get to try a lot of different flavours without having to pay $688.

I would particularly recommend its "shui zhu rou pian" or "pork slices cooked in water," which, despite its name, is quite spicy yet refreshing. It has a variation done with fish as well. Some of the spciy chicken dishes are fine too. See, the thing is, Sichuan cuisine has more than just spicy dishes ("ma la"), yet this place clearly has not mastered the "bai wei" or "plain-tasting" aspect of the cuisine.

I would most likely check the place out from time to time, but personally I think Golden Szechuan on Broadway and Burrard offers much better food and service at more reasonable prices. More sincere and authentic too.

And if anyone is really really really into hot and spicy, try the Sichuan-hotpot (or "Fondue Chinoise") at Mountain-City Hotpot on Alexandra Road. Be warned: Brace yourself for the morning after... if you know what I mean!

[nondual1]

As I scrolled back to read the old posts on this thread, I found this:

Sichuan cuisine isn't necessarily what I'd seek in Vancouver. The serious action in my opinion is at the Hong-Kong-style seafood and dim sum places.

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How things changed...! I would quite safely say that non-HK-style Chinese food, including Shanghai, Sichuan and Hunan, have since gone neck-to-neck with HK-style Chinese food. This is in tandem with the shift in the origins of immigrants. Some non-HK-style Chinese food is almost as good as "back home" in quality and definitely ahead in terms of the concentration of variety.

Good HK-style and Cantonese places abound still: the Harbour that Lee mentioned, Hoi Tong on the other side of No. 3 Road, Mandarin (or whatever the name is for the one in Radisson Richmond), the various Kirin's, and so on.

As for Chinese desserts:

Uhhh, it's not the names that are offputting with chinese deserts. As you know, I have nothing but respect and admiration for the chinese. Your culture is 6000 years old. You still haven't made a good desert. Maybe time to give up. Your culture has had untold triumphs, technological and artistic, sweets are not among them.

←

Whereas I would concede that desserts are not Chinese cuisine's forte -- open any Chinese cook-book and it is self-evident -- and that French, Viennese, Italian and so on do have the upper-hand, it's not THAT miserable. The many sweet-soups are often the perfect way to wrap up a heavy, can't-take-another-bite meal; "double-skinned milk" is a wonder worth beholding on its own; sweet dumplings with sesame filling is love trans-substantiated; "ba xi" or "pulling silk" banana or apple is any child's favorite; tapioca pudding (with lotus-seed paste) is so heart-warming in the winter; lotus-seed buns; sesame rolls; thousand-layer cake ("Qian Chen Gao"); "gao li dou sa"; pan-cake with date-paste filling...

... and my favorites from Chiu Chow: "Lu Dou Qing Xing Yuan" paired with "Wu Ni Shui Jing Bao"!

Keith, perhaps the jury has not heard all the evidence yet??

[BCinBC]

There is definitely a discrepancy here on whether the Sichuan we have in Vancouver (including Richmond) is "authentic" or not. I recently discussed this with a Chinese fellow who splits his time between Vancouver and China (his hometown is Tianjin just east of Beijing), and he said that in his opinion, although the Cantonese style of Chinese food has been mastered here (to this we can all agree), Sichuan is still not quite the same as in China.

Going back to what Feedbag said, Sichuan is not really the spiciest region for China - that honour goes to the Hunan province. What we have is actually a misconception; Sichuan is more about clever heat (if that makes any sense), as opposed to burn-your-face-off heat (again, that would be Hunan). Cantonese, of course, is all about no heat. When we were young, my parents never really cooked with chilis, but I saw the light around age 18 (that moment of streaming tears, runny nose, face sweats, and a huge smile). The regionalization of Chinese food goes further, to subtleties such as Shanghai-ese, subtleties that are lost on me.

A word about desserts. Keith, I agree with you that for the most part the Chinese dessert is a mysterious conglomeration of seemingly non-related ingredients. I'll not rant about red bean here. But I will say that for all those strikes, they've also hit a few singles and doubles - tapioca, steamed sponge cake, these fantastic little donut-type items with condensed sweetened milk, caramel taro (read my accounts of the last two here if you wish)… Okay that taro one did seem like a science experiment to me too, but it did work. Chinese desserts will never be slam-your-face-in-chocolate terrines or anything like that, the good ones just very subtle all around.

[Keith Talent]

modula1- Thanks alot for your thoughts on Szechuan Restaurant. I'm still eager to try it, sans kids of course, whiny little crybabies complain at a little japaleno, never mind numbing sichuan peppercorns. (For those without their hyberbole meter on, I'm kidding. Kids not liking spicy foods doesn't make them crybabies, it makes them normal. They are still whiny though.)

It looks like a set from Crouching Dargon Hiddden Tiger or whatever the hell that film was named. (Hero would make an excellent post-meal DVD selection, BTW.)

And take my comments re. Chinese desert with a grain of salt, especially that super delicious sichuan peppercorn flavoured salt that makes chicken taste so good.

Thanks for the reply.

[canucklehead]

BCinBC Posted Today, 09:43 AM

A word about desserts. Keith, I agree with you that for the most part the Chinese dessert is a mysterious conglomeration of seemingly non-related ingredients. I'll not rant about red bean here. But I will say that for all those strikes, they've also hit a few singles and doubles - tapioca, steamed sponge cake, these fantastic little donut-type items with condensed sweetened milk, caramel taro (read my accounts of the last two here if you wish)… Okay that taro one did seem like a science experiment to me too, but it did work. Chinese desserts will never be slam-your-face-in-chocolate terrines or anything like that, the good ones just very subtle all around.

nondual1 Posted Today, 01:47 AM

Whereas I would concede that desserts are not Chinese cuisine's forte -- open any Chinese cook-book and it is self-evident -- and that French, Viennese, Italian and so on do have the upper-hand, it's not THAT miserable. The many sweet-soups are often the perfect way to wrap up a heavy, can't-take-another-bite meal; "double-skinned milk" is a wonder worth beholding on its own; sweet dumplings with sesame filling is love trans-substantiated; "ba xi" or "pulling silk" banana or apple is any child's favorite; tapioca pudding (with lotus-seed paste) is so heart-warming in the winter; lotus-seed buns; sesame rolls; thousand-layer cake ("Qian Chen Gao"); "gao li dou sa"; pan-cake with date-paste filling...

... and my favorites from Chiu Chow: "Lu Dou Qing Xing Yuan" paired with "Wu Ni Shui Jing Bao"!

Keith, perhaps the jury has not heard all the evidence yet?? 

I am not sure if these wonderful descriptions are really convincing - so I am not sure if you are dispproving Keith or merely driving the point home.

'Seed', 'Lentils', and 'Doubled Boiled' are not in the usual vocabulary of good desserts. It is an up hill fight.

I also love the upthread arguments about 'authenticity'. You get a few Chinese people in a room and war can break out over what food is more 'authentic'. In this case, it sounds like an issue of degrees rather than out and out disconnect. So - there is'nt anything stopping me from going out there and eating it all.

Daddy-A and BCinBC were exposed to 'authentic' HK Style Western food and did not seem impressed - hmm, so much for the 'real deal'.

[Peter Rodgers]

Now that the issue of Shanghai cuisine is on the table, what is the consensus on the best of breed both in Vancouver and Richmond. I keep passing a Shanghai place on Alexandra Road between Jade and Sun Sui Wah (cannot remember the name), which always seems busy. If anyone knows the one I mean, any comments on this particular venue?

[nondual1]

I am not sure if these wonderful descriptions are really convincing - so I am not sure if you are dispproving Keith or merely driving the point home.     

'Seed', 'Lentils', and 'Doubled Boiled' are not in the usual vocabulary of good desserts.  It is an up hill fight.

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Why, that's only because they are in English; try them in French or Italian and they would be just delicious!

"Tiramisu" is much more appetizing than "pick me up," isn't it? And "crepe suzette" is less "science-experiment-sounding" than "pan-cake drenched in a sauce of orange and orange liqueur, after being processed through an open-flame of lit-liquor," no?

I think we miss out a lot if we approach a cuisine or a dish with preconceptions, either of language or of cultural habit. A case in point is using meat in dessert. Yucky, right? Well, only until you've tried the famous "little chicken biscuit" of Hongkong (which, despite its name, is made with pork instead of chicken), "jia sa rou (steamed pork belly layered with lotus seed paste)" of Sichuan, and "bing tang dun hua jiao (rehydrated fish-bubble in a crystal-sugar soup). They all sounded terrible, but look and taste like heaven on earth.

I also love the upthread arguments about 'authenticity'.  You get a few Chinese people in a room and war can break out over what food is more 'authentic'.  In this case, it sounds like an issue of degrees rather than out and out disconnect. So - there is'nt anything stopping me from going out there and eating it all.

Daddy-A and BCinBC were exposed to 'authentic' HK Style Western food and did not seem impressed - hmm, so much for the 'real deal'.

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It was not my intention to start any war over authenticity or dissuade anyone from going to the new Sichuan place. Remember I said I would go back myself? Be sure to give me a hug if we bump into each other there, all right?

Authenticity is of course an issue of degree and POV. The hard truth is that, for many cuisines, we non-natives, despite our pine for the authentic, usually have a hard time appreciating the real deal. (Can't quite find it now, but there is a parallel thread on transplanting Italian and Greek food here, which has some similar points, especially that of "a slice of parma ham on bread"). So, from the POV of taste, 100% authenticity, which usually is only available in the place of origin (for Sichuan, it's typically Chengdu and Qongqing) because of terroir, availability of ingredients and so on, may not be preferred by everyone. But when it's down to only 20 or 30%, take for example the Chinatown-chopsuey-Chinese-cuisine, then hardly anyone could say it's real Chinese food, right?

To sum it up, like I said in my original post, Sichuan natives may not like the taste of this new Sichuan restaurant, but it might be quite acceptable for non-natives. Which is not a bad thing: it all depends on what you are after.

As for "HK Style Western food," it is a particular, and some might say peculiar, collection of food (which is not robust enough to be called a "cuisine" yet) that has grown out of a particular place and of a particular time. Hongkong folks, especially those who have grown up in a certain era, like it mainly to cure their home-sickness for a place lost to the passage of time; for all others, it is an acquired taste. Liking it is the exception, rather than the rule.

[nondual1]

modula1- Thanks alot for your thoughts on Szechuan Restaurant. I'm still eager to try it, sans kids of course, whiny little crybabies complain at a little japaleno, never mind numbing sichuan peppercorns. (For those without their hyberbole meter on, I'm kidding. Kids not liking spicy foods doesn't make them crybabies, it makes them normal. They are still whiny though.)

It looks like a set from Crouching Dargon Hiddden Tiger or whatever the hell that film was named. (Hero would make an excellent post-meal DVD selection, BTW.)

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Exactly!

And take my comments re. Chinese desert with a grain of salt, especially that super delicious sichuan peppercorn flavoured salt that makes chicken taste so good.

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I did but I did! Little fleur de sel from Brittany that I got from the Gourmet Warehouse...

I am saving those precious Sichuan peppercorns, they having come to me straight from Chengdu, though -- do you know they actually faintly resemble lavender in fragrance?

[PearL]

Uhhh, it's not the names that are offputting with chinese deserts. As you know, I have nothing but respect and admiration for the chinese. Your culture is 6000 years old. You still haven't made a good desert. Maybe time to give up.

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IMO, it all boils down to one thing: butter (or lack thereof).

[PearL]

I like the crystal-steamed sweet glutinous balls, filled with various pastes (red bean, sesame, peanut), Chiu Chow style. Speaking of which, where the heck is there any authentic Chiu-Chow restaurants around? The only one I knew of (that's long gone) was Cariana in Richmond.