Chinese in Vancouver 2002 - 2006

[Ling]

I also drove by Bao Yu Guo and Shanghai Wind and asked my Aunt if they were good.  All she could say was - 'Ech!  So dirty!'

←

My mom is of the same opinion. I didn't notice either to be particularly dirty when I went...although I didn't sneak a peek in the kitchen.

[canucklehead]

After all this heavy duty Chinese food - I decided to have a simply bowl of won ton noodles. And in Vancouver - we are extremely lucky to have the just about the best won ton noodles that you can get. And I do NOT mean Hon's.

Mak's Noodles in the Fairchild Plaza in Vancouver and in Richmond and McKim's Noodle Saga in Richmond (what an OTT name eh?) spring from the orginal Mak's in Hong Kong - which is definitely the best won ton house in HK. In HK it is very old school and has been around for decades.

The owners of Mak's in HK - came over here and with partners opened up Mak's locally. As happens sometimes - the partners had a dispute and the HK owners left the Canadian venture and opened McKim's (which phonetically is closer to the Chinese name of the orginal in HK). So - the true orginal is McKim's - which was really opened just to spite the old partners - but all of the permutations are good.

I had lunch at the Broadway and Cambie location in Vancouver.

Classic wonton noodles. Bowl of Wonton only.

Beef brisket LoMein. LoMein with Pork in Spicy Brown Sauce

Why are these wonton noodles soo much better than Hon's? First off the portion sizes are civilized - they do not try to choke you with noodles. Each of these portions cost about $5 - so it is still good value for money (think of some of the double digits you pay for 'small plates' at other restaurants). And most importantly - the noodles are sooo MUCH better. They aree perfectly cooked to a real al dente. A real bite to the noodles and a liveliness in the mouth and have a clean freshness about them. They should be just translucent when cooked well - not the overboiled twine that some other places serve.

The wonton themselves are also exemplary - the skins so thin and delicate and a filling that really tastes of shrimp. In HK - if you were a special old school Tai Tai (that is the wife of a really important and respected dude) you could order just a bowl of the wonton wrappers cooked as though they were noodles. Insane!! Don't even think of asking for it here.

Now - I do have some issues with the soup. Nice and clear - it seems fine, but my post lunch afternoon daze confirms that it is packed with MSG.

Still - this is best example of true classic HK Wonton Noodles. McKim's in Richmond also serves small dishes - but I have no first hand experience with those.

Edited July 16, 2005 by canucklehead (log)

[Ling]

Did McKim's in Richmond used to be called Mak's (phonetically "muck ung gay")? You are revealing all my favourite places to eat with my family.... The congee at Mak's is also very good--my favourite is the one with the fresh, sliced pieces of fish (sole, maybe?)

The portions are indeed "civilized" (i.e. small enough for me to order 2 bowls of whatever I'm having...so it can get a bit pricey.) You can also get extra noodles for a small charge, correct?

[*Deborah*]

Last night was a weird confluence of events: having a wretched head cold AND having money in my wallet, I ordered in spicy stuff for dinner last night, from New Grand View (yes, thank God, they still deliver to my neighbourhood despite their recent move).

I ordered Hot and Sour soup, extra-spicy General Tso's chicken, and Shanghai Noodles, which are my new staple instead of fried rice, although I really should get something with vegetables in... I guess I broke the threshold as I got free eggrolls with that, total including tax was $24.45. The Hot and Sour I didn't want by the time the food came (very hot, in exactly 45 minutes as promised), so I can't really say anything about that (hope it heats up well!), but the chicken was just great, spicy enough that I had some tingle in my mouth afterward (and could taste through my poor dead tastebuds). Extra garlic in there and peppers, with broccoli and celery, sprinkled with sesame seeds. I expect it to be even spicier today

The Shanghai noodles are nice and thick in their sauce, but not overdone and mushy, with a few shredded veggies and some thin shreds of (I think) beef, all fried up. I have some good leftovers to carry me through a few days!

Apologies for the lack of pictures, blame it on the cold.

[Silvermink]

I'm partial to Hon's, and while I've only been to Sun Sui Wah once (dim sum), it was good enough that I'd put it up there too.

Prawn Garden out in Mission is actually quite good (love their ginger beef, though Austin Heights Diner in Coquitlam does it pretty well too), but apparently they had a fire recently so they're closed.

[jamiemaw]

After all this heavy duty Chinese food - I decided to have a simply bowl of won ton noodles.  And in Vancouver - we are extremely lucky to have the just about the best won ton noodles that you can get.  And I do NOT mean Hon's.

Mak's Noodles in the Fairchild Plaza in Vancouver and in Richmond and McKim's Noodle Saga in Richmond (what an OTT name eh?) spring from the orginal Mak's in Hong Kong - which is definitely the best won ton house in HK.  In HK it is very old school and has been around for decades.

The owners of Mak's in HK - came over here and with partners opened up Mak's locally.  As happens sometimes - the partners had a dispute and the HK owners left the Canadian venture and opened McKim's (which phonetically is closer to the Chinese name of the orginal in HK).  So - the true orginal is McKim's - which was really opened just to spite the old partners - but all of the permutations are good.

I had lunch at the Broadway and Cambie location in Vancouver.

Why are these wonton noodles soo much better than Hon's?  First off the portion sizes are civilized - they do not try to choke you with noodles.  Each of these portions cost about $5 - so it is still good value for money (think of some of the double digits you pay for 'small plates' at other restaurants).  And most importantly - the noodles are sooo MUCH better.  They aree perfectly cooked to a real al dente.  A real bite to the noodles and a liveliness in the mouth and have a clean freshness about them.  They should be just translucent when cooked well - not the overboiled twine that some other places serve.

The wonton themselves are also exemplary - the skins so thin and delicate and a filling that really tastes of shrimp.  In HK - if you were a special old school Tai Tai (that is the wife of a really important and respected dude) you could order just a bowl of the wonton wrappers cooked as though they were noodles.  Insane!!  Don't even think of asking for it here.

Now - I do have some issues with the soup.  Nice and clear - it seems fine, but my post lunch afternoon daze confirms that it is packed with MSG.

Still - this is best example of true classic HK Wonton Noodles.  McKim's in Richmond also serves small dishes - but I have no first hand experience with those.

←

Terrific tip and backstory, canucklehead--many thanks. I'm interested in what symptoms you experienced from the MSG and if you experience same after eating other Asian foods.

Edited July 17, 2005 by jamiemaw (log)

[Ling]

^I'm not canucklehead, but I just get really thirsty after eating something loaded with MSG. Some people get headaches.

[Vancouver]

You might be interested int he truth in advertising campaign regarding MSG and its side effects: Adverse reactions to MSG

Cheers!

[canucklehead]

I'm interested in what symptoms you experienced from the MSG and if you experience same after eating other Asian foods.

←

For me - the symptons are a dazed out tiredness and a tightness in neck and head. Also - like Ling - I get a really parched thirstiness.

Ever since I lived in Asia for a few years - I've noticed my reaction to MSG becoming more and more adverse. When I lived in Shanghai - it was easier to buy MSG then salt - and I would feel sooo tired after eating out that it was hard to function.

It always seems like dim sum, won ton noodle houses, and Shanghainese food are the biggest perpetrators of MSG overdoses. As I've posted elsewhere - a good fizzy coke seems to help alot in mitigating the worse of the effects (God knows why - but in this instance, two wrongs do make a right).

[jamiemaw]

If MSG is so bad for you, why doesn't everyone in Asia have a headache?

Here's the discussion thread on MSG, which has now clinically proven not to cause the symptoms associated with Chinese Restaurant Syndrome. And let me put it another way: those lobby groups, such as so-called 'Truth in Advertising', have certainly never come close to proving the reverse.

And here’s an essay from the Guardian that summarizes its occurence in nature and history, as well as some other interesting data retrieval, including the fact that human mother’s milk is the richest known product in free-ranging glutamates (Grumpy Baby Syndrome?), followed by parmesan cheese, and of course, soy and nori. It’s amusing that CRS malingerers report no complaints after eating Japanese food, even though that cuisine can easily rival Chinese in glutamates.

I’d be willing to bet dollars to a dozen Mr. Lee’s that the reason Canucklehead slowed down after lunch related to his intake of an admirably large mid-day meal, laden with carbohydrates. Now this is a fact, (carbo-loading at lunch = nap) called GLS (Glutton at Lunch Syndrome) that has been proven.

I demand extra lashings of MSG by name and studiously avoid those New-Age Chinese joints that advertise NO MSG on their menus. After all, I'm not about to tell the future Mrs. Maw, "Not tonight dear--I've just polished off a bucket of General Tso's chicken."

Edited July 18, 2005 by jamiemaw (log)

[canucklehead]

Interesting points Jamie. BTW - I did not consume all of the food by myself in my wonton nooodle posting, it was lunch for two. But I see what you are saying.

But I do not feel the same effects after say - a huge plate of pasta. Dim sum, if anything, is fairly low are carbs - with lots of bites of pork and chicken. Korean food - which is also meat rich - also tires me out.

I am not however - an anti-MSG zealot. I figure it is the price you pay to enjoy certain food.

Why ask for extra MSG? I've noticed that one of the symptoms of MSG overdosing that the link to Vancouver postings cited was genital swelling. I don't know what to say.

[jamiemaw]

Interesting points Jamie.  BTW - I did not consume all of the food by myself in my wonton nooodle posting, it was lunch for two.  But I see what you are saying. 

But I do not feel the same effects after say - a huge plate of pasta.  Dim sum, if anything, is fairly low are carbs - with lots of bites of pork and chicken.  Korean food - which is also meat rich - also tires me out.

I am not however - an anti-MSG zealot.  I figure it is the price you pay to enjoy certain food. 

Why ask for extra MSG?  I've noticed that one of the symptoms of MSG overdosing that the link to Vancouver postings cited was genital swelling.  I don't know what to say.

←

Don't say a word. Limp.

Edited July 18, 2005 by jamiemaw (log)

[~cayenne~]

For me - the symptons are a dazed out tiredness and a tightness in neck and head. Also - like Ling - I get a really parched thirstiness.

For me, much the same, definite sharp pains in my lower neck and upper back, and down my upper arms, probably about 15 to 30 minutes after eating food with M.S.G., especially strong with prepackaged Asian type snacks.

Does anyone know if it's a reasonable or acceptable request to ask for no M.S.G. at some of these favoured restaurants mentioned here, and do they use it at Shanghai Wind? (ps., do they have take out menu's at S.W. yet, went there a week or so ago, and they had run out, must be really popular, perhaps because of the recommendations here?

(haven't checked yet, does S.W. have a website per chance?)

[Keith Talent]

Website? They're still contemplating making the leap to an electronic cash register rather than the reliable mechanical kind they use now, they're a few years out from the web. I swear the takeout menus are printed using woodcut blocks. High tech an operation it's not.

Besides, the menu is basiclly useless there. The good stuff is all written in Mandarin on the posters on the walls. Ask the waiterss to translate, maybe they'll eventually make a concession to those of us that barely read english. Look what others are eating. Ask the waitress what's good today, they've yet to steer me wrong.

And Jeffery Steingarten pretty throughly debunks the whole MSG as an allergen thing.

[canucklehead]

Jeffery Steingarten pretty throughly debunks the whole MSG as an allergen thing.

←

I don't think that I am allergic to MSG - but I do think that it has caused my severe lower body acne, over active nose hair growth, sweaty palms, pangs of loneliness and panic, overactive thyroid, mommy separation anxiety, lack of real social contact with others, swelling of eyelids, toenail inflamation, chakra displacement, inappropriate intimacy with Skytrain Drivers, and severe delusions of grandeur.

Thank goodness for egullet for helping me work through my issues.

[*Deborah*]

You have to watch out with those SkyTrain drivers, Lee.

*worried about you*

[peppyre]

Jeffery Steingarten pretty throughly debunks the whole MSG as an allergen thing.

←

I don't think that I am allergic to MSG - but I do think that it has caused my severe lower body acne, over active nose hair growth, sweaty palms, pangs of loneliness and panic, overactive thyroid, mommy separation anxiety, lack of real social contact with others, swelling of eyelids, toenail inflamation, chakra displacement, inappropriate intimacy with Skytrain Drivers, and severe delusions of grandeur.

Thank goodness for egullet for helping me work through my issues.

←

(Under my desk I'm laughing so hard)

[~cayenne~]

Website? They're still contemplating making the leap to an electronic cash register rather than the reliable mechanical kind they use now, they're a few years out from the web. I swear the takeout menus are printed using woodcut blocks. High tech an operation it's not.

Besides, the menu is basiclly useless there. The good stuff is all written in Mandarin on the posters on the walls. Ask the waiterss to translate, maybe they'll eventually make a concession to those of us that barely read english. Look what others are eating. Ask the waitress what's good today, they've yet to steer me wrong.

And Jeffery Steingarten pretty throughly debunks the whole MSG as an allergen thing.

←

Haha! I love the way you write Keith, you've got wicked humour!

When I went by it was packed and as I was toting the wee one, there was no way I'd have been able to get in. The lady who answered my query as to the availability of menu's answered very well in my mother tongue, so I didn't feel as alienated as I have at some of the other prolific establishments in Richmond, which still doesn't deter me from wandering through the many, many Asian malls and stores! Maybe I should go to S.W. in the late afternoon, before dinner rush? Are they open all day or do they close in the afternoon like some Asian restaurants?

As far as the MSG reaction, I have still to read up on Jeffery's comments. I agree it may not necessarily be an allergen, but there definitely is some sort of effect, possibily a type of stimulant, in some people? Maybe those who consume it more frequently develop some sort of immunity to it over time...just musing .

[Daddy-A]

Okay gang ... time to get back to discussing Chinese food in Vancouver. Canucklehead's reactions (real or imagined ... last time I checked Skytrain was driver-less) to MSG belong in the General forum.

editted because I apparently don't know the difference between Chinese food & a butcher shop.

A.

[canucklehead]

I went to a Chinese wedding banquet (my cousin's) at Sun Sui Wah in Richmond. The whole point of the evening is extravagance and celebration. At the same time guests are expected to contribute "lucky money" to help defer costs. The going rate seems to be about $75-$100 per head.

Deep Fried Crab Claw wrapped in Crab Meat, Stir Fried Scallop, Prawns, and Broccolli,

Shark Fin Soup, Stir Fried Lobster

Roasted Squab, Abalone braised with Shitake and Gai Lan

Steamed Whole Rock Cod, Ying Yang (Honeymoon) Fried Rice

Braised Noodles, Traditional Malaysian Coconut Cake and Layered Cake

Red Bean Soup

Overall - it is hard to say whether the food was really good. So much of the time - it is 'Banquet Food' that follows a real script - so there are really no suprises.

Fish is always part of the meal because it symbolizes wealth and prosperity. In parts of China where fish is not available or if it is too expensive - carved wooden fish are placed on plates and 'served' to the table.

Noodles represent longevity (and is also a cheap filler). The honeymoon rice - well, that's obvious what it symbolizes right? Getting DOWN!!

The Deep Fried Claw is always so hard and rubbery - I don't know why people select it for wedding banquets. The restaurant was pretty cheap with some of the seafood (esp the scallops and abalone). I really dislike shark fin soup - it is a tasteless glop over thicked with cornstarch with a few strands of plasticy shark fin. The Bride and Groom boycotted their servings of shark fin soup in the name of sustainable fisheries.

On the plus side - the whole steamed fish was lovely and not over done. And the Malaysian Dessert where homemade by the Bride's mother and - well you could taste the love and care (no irony here). And if you like Red Bean Soup - this was an excellent example of it.

The service was excellent and the banquet was handled with millitary precision. These kind of events are a really money maker for the restaurant.

200 guests - I am guessing that dinner was $15k-20k. The important thing was everybody had fun - some relatives got inappropriately drunk - and the Bride and Groom got a great send off.

Edited August 11, 2005 by canucklehead (log)

[Ling]

^I've always liked the squab at Sun Sui Wah. But you're right--banquet food is always the same. I'm hungry now, after looking at those pictures.

[kontemporary]

Thanks, canucklehead, I'm never gonna look at honeymoon rice the same way ever again now..

Is the squab at Sun Sui Wah (or other Chinese restaurants) dusted with five spices? I can't really ever tell when five spice seasoning is used unless i'm eating BBQ pork..

75-100 per head seems quite steep at Sun Sui Wah.. but I'm thinking a lot of it is from the cost of the shark fin soup course. Heck I'd rather spend that money on a tasting menu at West.

The other day I had a dinner at Imperial downtown, and I had to say that a lot of courses were hit-and-miss. Our vegetable and noodle courses were done very poorly. Service was also.. a bit of a nuisance, because I was saying that we wanted multiple dishes for the table of different variety, but the server was adamant on changing the sizes of different orders on the menu to accompany our party of nine. On other occasions the servers forgot about certain requests.

But that is not to say everything went wrong - as one of the dishes, the taro-stuffed roast duck, was one of the best duck dishes I've had in a long time. That was yummy. And the soy-steamed prawns were done very well.

Dishes are a bit more expensive than Sun Sui Wah. I'd recommend Sun Sui Wah for better consistancy in its dishes, but Imperial has better location/view.

[canucklehead]

Usually the squab at SSW is excellent - but the ones served at the Wedding Banquet were a let down. They tasted very liver-y and were not succulent as usual (to be honest - almost freezer burned).

I also feel that Imperial can be hit or miss with the service. They are very 'driven' to do things their way. It can be helpful or intrusive depending on how you see things.

My mother is in town - so there is alot of Chinese eating. Ironically - it is her siblings taking her out, but the last thing she wants (coming in from HK) is HK style food in Vancouver. She is making me block off my calendar for non-Chinese eating.

Edited August 11, 2005 by canucklehead (log)

[chocomoo]

I think the squab at Sun Sui Wah is going downhill. My grandma went with my auntie & uncle a few months ago for dinner, & said the squab was really bad - small & dry. And they're supposed to be renowned for their squab too.

The squab at Koon Bo [Fraser & 41st, offshoot of Koon Lock on Fraser near 49th (long story short: 2 brothers used to own Koon Lock, but they went their separate ways & one brother went off & opened Koon Bo)] is really good (I think you have to pre-order them) - large, thick pieces, juicy meat, crispy skin (and really hot, the juices are bubbling). Spicy Court (?) near Oakridge also has pretty good squab, albeit not as flavourful or good as Koon Bo's squab. Lastly, Silver Palace (Fraser & 49th) also has quite good squab.

[Daddy-A]

[host]

I've relocated the discussion on tipping over in General Food Topics and given it its own thread. HERE.

Let's keep the discussion in this thread focussed on Chinese food in Vancouver.

Thanks!

[/host]

A.