Rick Bayless and Burger King - Part 2

[Dave the Cook]

No, you haven't had mineral water that is 1200 mg of sodium per serving.

According to mineralwaters.org, a number of East European brands have sodium in the 1000+ mg/l range. Admittedly, a liter would be a large serving.

[tommy]

  Admittedly, a liter would be a large serving.

i'm good for a liter over the course of a meal. of course, i need a glass of water afterwards as i'm so thirsty from the sodium.

Edited November 3, 2003 by tommy (log)

[Jason Perlow]

Yes I'm going strictly by the marketing. In what other fashion can Burger King communicate to its customers? With fast food the marketing is everything.

well jason, you said "nothing about that sandwich says diet to me." you can understand that i might take this as your (educated) opinion of the actual sandwich, rather than the marketing campaign (which may or may not have completed its life-cycle yet).

and the sodium still doesn't matter.

The Bayless commecial has mentions the fat content, haven't seen the other two. I've been on the fence about this whole thing but after seeing the commercial a few times, it's pretty embarrassing for Bayless if you ask me.

Okay, so maybe I am completely jaded and didnt notice it. I'm probably too distracted by Bayless' disingenousness that it went thru one ear and out the other.

[jbraynolds]

Okay, sorry for the smart-ass comment about sodium in mineral waters. But, the BK sandwiches that RB is pimping are flat-out SALTY. And I love salt, adore it and crave it, and there's a limit to all things good, even salt. These things hurt. If RB put something as sodium-riddled out at Frontera/Topo it would be sent back in a flash and replaced with an apology from RB, himself. I guess "real diners" shouldn't worry as he did imply in his lame-ass letter that those (unwashed) who would be buying these pieces of garbage were lucky that they weren't getting the usual crap that BK usually trafficks in. So BK is now on the right track...somehow? I'd love to sit across from RB, mano a mano, and watch him eat one of these things and explain, in detail, the worthiness of it. Any bets on how often HE picks some BK Baguette Sandwiches up for the kids on his way home from a rough day of getting his knees and palms scraped and bloody from servicing The Man?

[tommy]

Okay, sorry for the smart-ass comment about sodium in mineral waters. But,  the BK sandwiches that RB is pimping are flat-out SALTY.

if you look at some of the numbers i posted earlier about sodium content, you'll probably see that they're really not all that salty when compared to other sandwiches. perception is certainly reality, but the numbers don't lie.

[jbraynolds]

You're right - numbers don't lie. The accepted daily maximum sodium intake for a normal adult is 2400 mg of sodium a day and the BK baguettes, at 1200 mg, give you half that, in one neat little package. I think that a reasonable person would look at that and say "hmm, that sounds a little bit salty".

[bourdain]

650,000 is what I heard.

[Kim WB]

650,000 is what I heard.

whew, that's tuition for two and a half kids, K-college.

[Jinmyo]

650,000 is what I heard.

Of sodium?

[mamster]

The issue with the saltiness of the sandwich (I agree--it does taste like a murderous salt-bomb) may have to do with the way the ingredients are processed, or it might just be the lack of fat. Fat rounds out flavors, and dishes that are too low in fat often taste unpleasantly salty or sweet. Think of Snackwell's cookies, for example.

[tommy]

I think that a reasonable person would look at that and say "hmm, that sounds a little bit salty".

and other reasonable people don't think it's salty.

[tanabutler]

I was just about to unsubscribe to this thread, because I really thought this horse was deader than Seabiscuit, and then I read that brilliant Bourdain rant (brilliant for offering a creative solution rather than merely dumping bile and lynching Bayless). Sorry if this sounds up-suckish, but I am going to e-mail that to a few food folks I know who will appreciate it.

I think I will pass it along, with all due respect, to the Chefs Collaborative folks and see if I can get a response about how their meeting went last month. That would be after October 10, when Peter Hoffman (National Chair for CC) wrote his letter explaining their policy on personal endorsements by its members.

Presumably not much has changed, as Bayless's name is still listed on the Board of Overseers (that has a rather plantionesque ring to it, doesn't it?).

[Jinmyo]

I was just about to unsubscribe to this thread,  because I really thought this horse was deader than Seabiscuit, and then I read that brilliant Bourdain rant (brilliant for offering a creative solution rather than merely dumping bile and lynching Bayless). Sorry if this sounds up-suckish, but I am going to e-mail that to a few food folks I know who will appreciate it.

I agree. Tony B not only ranted outrageously but neatly summarized all of the issues, including what to do about them.

It's not that he doesn't deserve up-sucking. It's just that seeing it happen in public is a bit uncomfortable because it is often just a "Tonytonytony, you're so sexy and great and wonderful and the best chef and..." that no one should see anyone else do.

Tana, do see what CC says.

[jbraynolds]

A reasonable person would think that getting 50% of your daily sodium from a single sandwich is okay? Your definition of "reasonable" is different than mine, then.

[tommy]

A reasonable person would think that getting 50% of your daily sodium from a single sandwich is okay? Your definition of "reasonable" is different than mine, then.

some people look at the numbers in a vacuum. i look at them in comparison to other food.

[ronnie_suburban]

A reasonable person would think that getting 50% of your daily sodium from a single sandwich is okay? Your definition of "reasonable" is different than mine, then.

Some reasonable people might believe that what the FDA recommends in the way of daily allowances is irrelevant. Other reasonable people may understand that if one doesn't already suffer from high blood pressure, sodium intake may pose no health risk whatsoever.

=R=

[Jinmyo]

Other reasonable people may understand that if one doesn't already suffer from high blood pressure, sodium intake may pose no health risk whatsoever.

Other reasonable people would have read the University of Maine 15 year study of over around a 1,000 people that showed no relationship between salt consumption and blood pressure that contradicted the 6 month studies done of around 70 people and said

"Studies are like opinions but with numbers"

as they crumbled fleur de sel onto the sweet butter on their baguette.

[tommy]

Other reasonable people would have read the University of Maine 15 year study

too many words.

[Jinmyo]

Other reasonable people would have read the University of Maine 15 year study

too many words.

Reasonable.

[tanabutler]

It's not that he doesn't deserve up-sucking. It's just that seeing it happen in public is a bit uncomfortable because it is often just a "Tonytonytony, you're so sexy and great and wonderful and the best chef and..." that no one should see anyone else do.

Tana, do see what CC says.

Okay, you got it. I'll let you know what/when I hear back.

650,000, huh? Did that all go to the Frontera Foundation, or did Baby Gotta Have New Shoes?

Note to self: "Upsuck privately, so as not to revolt Jinmyo."

[jbraynolds]

No offense to the minds at the U of Maine's Medical School (I assume that it was a med school that conducted their study) but here's a fairly recent release from Johns Hopkins, which has an, ahem, reasonably (couldn't resist) well-regarded med school:

http://www.lifescan.com/care/living/nutrition/salt/

[tommy]

No offense to the minds at the U of Maine's Medical School (I assume that it was a med school that conducted their study) but here's a fairly recent release from Johns Hopkins, which has an, ahem, reasonably (couldn't resist) well-regarded med school:

http://www.lifescan.com/care/living/nutrition/salt/

ah yes. it sites a "reasonable body of evidence".

although i'm sure they have a point: americans should probably reduce their daily intake by 20% or so. from 5000mg down to 4000mg.

[hillbill]

No offense to the minds at the U of Maine's Medical School (I assume that it was a med school that conducted their study) but here's a fairly recent release from Johns Hopkins, which has an, ahem, reasonably (couldn't resist) well-regarded med school:

http://www.lifescan.com/care/living/nutrition/salt/

I am confused. There's no statement or even implication as far as I can see that there's any problem for people who are not hypertensive with salt consumption. So then why is there a suggestion that everyone should reduce their salt intake? It sorta says this will be beneficial and it also sorta doesn't say that there's any correlation between salt intake and non-hypertensives becoming hypertensive.

[Tess]

With the sodium, I don't think it's so much the numbers that are a problem, unless you are watching them for health reasons. The problem is with chicken that's been injected with salt solution. Why do they do this? To prevent freezer burn or shrinkage, or as a cheap way of increasing weight? Anyway it sounds (from Bayless's own description of the chicken as being "more processed than I'd like" vel sim.) as if that's what's going on here, and it makes for lousy texture and taste.

[mags]

Yes, the new BK sandwich is relatively high in salt. So are all processed foods. By way of comparison, one table I saw indicated that both a cup of cottage cheese and a can of salmon have more than 1800 mg of sodium, and a cup of prepared macaroni and cheese has more than 1300.

All of which is to say that there are any number of ways to designate a given food as healthy or otherwise. Angelfood cake, that darling of the low-fat era, is a sugar bomb. Likewise raisins and orange juice.

All of which is further to say that it seems to me that people here are looking for reasons to blast Bayless. This sandwich he's shilling IS in fact lower in fat than competing products? Yeah, well, it's high in sodium, so he's still evil for promoting it. He's giving the money away to promote sustainable agriculture? Yeah, well, he must have decided to do that after he figured out that people were pissed, so it's just a sleazy PR move. He's even evil-er for promoting the damn thing. Mario Batalli slaps his name on commercial tomato sauce that -- according to at least one poster here -- taste like crap? Shut up, it's Bayless we're interested in pilloring. HIS sandwich tastes REALLY lousy, and did we mention it's high in sodium?

Without meaning to open a political can of worms, this kind of non-logic reminds me rather strongly of ...nope, let's not go there. Let's say it reminds me of 1984. Bayless is our enemy. Bayless has always been our enemy. Bayless is wholly evil and nothing he does or says is un-evil in any way.

The combination of self-righteousness and blood-lust is just a little daunting.