Vacuum packing as a food processing technique: Chamber or not.

[rotuts]

Ive been meaning to ask about using a vacuum as a food 'processing' technique

I now have a chamber vac, and would like to learn how to make quick pickles, infusions etc

Im hoping that folks w a chamber vac might add their thoughts here

or any other techniques that use a vacuum to add to food prep

many thanks

Edited February 16, 2014 by rotuts (log)

[Kerry Beal]

I would be interested in the same thing - there are a few threads that mention the techniques but I haven't been able to find a lot of detail on the how to.

[Kerry Beal]

I did french toast last week using the chamber vac - cobbled together from several sites and ideas. I put the custard in a polycarbonate food saver container (not covered) - put the bread in with it - cycled a few times until I thought I saw the bubbles come up through the bread. I had turned the bread over and that led me to believe that the custard was actually coming through from the bottom - I think I should have done it a few more cycles (and not turned it over) as there were spots in the middle of the bread that were not custard infused.

[rotuts]

also re: vacuum: can you reduce wine, red or white, in a chamber vac 'beneficially'

ie remove water and EtOH and leave more flavor than a heated reduction?

[Kerry Beal]

Not sure you can - I can do that in my vacuum microwave but it applies heat - in the chamber vac stuff just boils over.

[rotuts]

indeed. but Im wondering if the room temp boil some how does not denature those 'flavor packets' which might stay in the residual liquid.

shame i don't now have the access I once had to high end Organic Chemistry Labs.

a long long time before 'Breaking Bad'

I might try 'freezer fractionation'

Edited February 16, 2014 by rotuts (log)

[Chris Amirault]

I use my chamber vacuum to do this sort of thing very often. The three procedures I use regularly are:

-- pickling: make your favorite quick pickle brine (I use a more vinegary version of the Momofuku pickle brine), add the vegetable or fruit you want to pickle, and vacuum seal it at max pressure. I do this to cucumbers once or twice a week; you can toss in chiles, ginger, onions, etc.

-- infusions: now that grapefruit are in season, I vacuum seal the peel w/o pith of a whole grapefruit with some strong (overproof if you have it) white rum and then use that in cocktails. You can do the same with just about anything you'd infuse into booze, but citrus peels are particularly terrific.

-- french toast: I use an old FoodSaver jar and tube, put sliced bread into the jar, pour the french toast mixture over the top, cover it, and then pull it using the side vacuum "jack" three or four times.

I've also fiddled around with other things -- infusing watermelon with Campari and then freezing it for adult popsicles was a hit last summer -- but those are my go-to basics. I'll be very interested to read what others are doing.

[Kerry Beal]

Chris - when you do these things - what sort of vessel are you putting them in? Lid, no lid?

[rotuts]

very interesting and thanks for your comtributions

" vacuum seal it at max pressure "

do you actually seal the bag or abort and do the vacuum a few times ?

[Chris Amirault]

I use either standard VacMaster pouches (especially if I want to chill pickles in an ice bath or the fridge after sealing them) or a FoodSaver vacuum storage canister.

ETA: for the pickles, I just set the vacuum to 45 or 50 and then hit "stop" to seal it when the brine is boiling.

Edited February 17, 2014 by Chris Amirault (log)

[MelissaH]

I did french toast last week using the chamber vac - cobbled together from several sites and ideas. I put the custard in a polycarbonate food saver container (not covered) - put the bread in with it - cycled a few times until I thought I saw the bubbles come up through the bread. I had turned the bread over and that led me to believe that the custard was actually coming through from the bottom - I think I should have done it a few more cycles (and not turned it over) as there were spots in the middle of the bread that were not custard infused.

Casey also did fantastic french toast this way: bread and custard in an uncovered pan, and run a couple of cycles. Way faster than my usual technique of an overnight soak.

[JoNorvelleWalker]

I use my chamber vacuum to do this sort of thing very often. The three procedures I use regularly are: 

 

-- pickling: make your favorite quick pickle brine (I use a more vinegary version of the Momofuku pickle brine), add the vegetable or fruit you want to pickle, and vacuum seal it at max pressure. I do this to cucumbers once or twice a week; you can toss in chiles, ginger, onions, etc. 

 

-- infusions: now that grapefruit are in season, I vacuum seal the peel w/o pith of a whole grapefruit with some strong (overproof if you have it) white rum and then use that in cocktails. You can do the same with just about anything you'd infuse into booze, but citrus peels are particularly terrific. 

 

-- french toast: I use an old FoodSaver jar and tube, put sliced bread into the jar, pour the french toast mixture over the top, cover it, and then pull it using the side vacuum "jack" three or four times. 

 

I've also fiddled around with other things -- infusing watermelon with Campari and then freezing it for adult popsicles was a hit last summer -- but those are my go-to basics. I'll be very interested to read what others are doing. 

 

Now that I have a sealer on order I'd like to learn more about these techniques.  Is there a good reference (more than MC)?  I'd also like to know how the results of vacuum infusing compares with pressure infusing in an iSi.

[nickrey]

I can say it's much easier and less messy. You can pull a vacuum multiple times with the infusing liquid to gain the benefit.

 

We're pushing the boundary a bit here as it is vacuum infusing. You may need to experiment for yourself.

[dcarch]

I have a laboratory vacuum machine. I had plans to try vacuum drying at room temperature to concentrate stock and to make bouillon cubes. Haven't done it yet.

 

I am not sure about vacuum infusion for non porous food. I don't know if you can force anything into solids (food with no voids or bubbles, for instance, it is impossible to compress water). Certainly not atmospheric pressure at about 14 lbs/sq. in., which is the maximum you can get with vacuum, regardless of horse power of the motor. Even a pressure cooker can give you 15 lbs/sq. in. of force.

 

As a matter of fact, after vacuuming all the air out and you seal the bag, there will be no pressure inside the bag, it will only be airless. You are mostly marinating, not infusing. 

 

If you can in fact force infusion, than it would be much more effective and easier using pressure. A cheap $20.00 tire air pump can give you 100 lbs/sq. in. of pressure.

 

dcarch

Edited March 14, 2014 by dcarch (log)

[nickrey]

Vacuum pickling works best with vegetables that have vesicles that can be crushed when atmospheric pressure hits the food after a vacuum has been applied. A prime example is watermelon which looks like raw salmon after it is vacuum sealed. If there is liquid around the vegetable it seems that this is forced into the vacuumed object when air pressure returns to the chamber. I'm not convinced that this is the same as marinating because the pressure markedly changes the texture of the object being vacuum pickled/infused. Marinating does not do this.

[rotuts]

thanks

[dcarch]

Vacuum pickling works best with vegetables that have vesicles that can be crushed when atmospheric pressure hits the food after a vacuum has been applied. A prime example is watermelon which looks like raw salmon after it is vacuum sealed. If there is liquid around the vegetable it seems that this is forced into the vacuumed object when air pressure returns to the chamber. I'm not convinced that this is the same as marinating because the pressure markedly changes the texture of the object being vacuum pickled/infused. Marinating does not do this.

 

I totally agree with you. For food that has a structure that is some what porous, the vacuum method will work very well.

 

dcarch

[Edward J]

You might want to look into "Vacuum tumbling", a method that, at first, large meat producers were using in the early '80's and now every butcher shop is using.

 

Items are placed in s/s drum with the marinade, the drum has baffles in the inside.  The lid is placed on, and the contents are placed under vacuum.The drum is placed on rollers and rotated for a prescribed length of time--very much like a rock polishing/tumbling kit.

 

Since meat can absorb up 80% of it's volume in liquids with this method, the butchers looooove it.  I hasten to add that there is an unofficial industry standard of about 17% marinade added.  You usually see this on the packaging as "flavor enhanced" or "added protein".  The ubiquitous IQF  b'less, skinless chicken breast is done with this method as well.

 

I have used this method at a local poultry producer to do some custom chicken satays --highly flavoured chicken strips on bamboo skewers.  Worked well. 

[rotuts]

""  IQF ""

 

Ill ask for a little help w this.

 

seems interesting.  so when you are buying this prep you are buying 17 % added 'water?'

[Edward J]

IQF = individually quick frozen

 

Just look at the labeling when you shop.  You will come across pork chops and pork loin roasts that are vacuum packed and boast "flavour enhanced" or some such.  Look at the nutritional chart and you will see the sodium content ( as much as 33% of your daily intake) on there.

 

the $9.00 chicken beast burger available at every diner and bar is vacuum tumbled, usually some kind of a  soy protein with some kind of flavouring.  Not only does the marinade ( called "pump" in the meat biz) add extra weight, but it also has the advantage of ensuring the meat stays moist--even if the living (deleted) has been cooked out of that poor chix brst, it still stays moist. 

 

If you look in the freezer section of your supermarket, I guarantee you will find 5 lb bags of iqf skinless, boneless breasts ideal for summer bbq's and such.  If you look on the bottom of the breasts, you will see a grid mark imprinted in the meat.  After the breasts are vacuum tumbled they are layed out on a grid and flash frozen, hence the grid marks. 

[rotuts]

Wow.  Ill take a peek.   I get skinless/boneless  but they are fresh.