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Making a Panade


Shel_B
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While I know what a panade is, and at least basically understand how to make one, the question of what a "good quality white bread" is eludes me. I'm thinking of a loaf bought at one of our local artisan or artisan-like bakeries, but that seems like an expensive proposition for a slice of bread. I suppose I could eat the bread, or freeze it for subsequent use, but a) I don't like white bread, and b) it could remain in the freezer for months, if not years. And yes, I could just give the sliced-into-loaf to someone ... however, my real question isn't about what to do with a leftover loaf of white bread, but what a "good quality white bread" should consist of - what makes one white bread good and the other dreck - especially supermarket white bread.

CI tested white bread, but the ones they recommended are, at least as far as I know, unavailable in my area. Can't use 'em, can't taste 'em to see what they consider good.

So, a little white bread help would be in order, please. Thanks!

 ... Shel


 

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Good quality white bread (supermarket version) has to me, usually ment Pepperidge Farm or Arnold's Brick Oven. Firm, not much crust, soft crust, tight crumb, moistish. HTH!

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Good quality white bread (supermarket version) has to me, usually ment Pepperidge Farm or Arnold's Brick Oven. Firm, not much crust, soft crust, tight crumb, moistish. HTH!

Those breads are unavailable here, AFAIK. Maybe someone knows an adequate substitute in the San Francisco area. I guess another question might be, "Could a cheapo 'Wonder Bread' clone, or any white bread, be used with good results?"

Edited by Shel_B (log)
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 ... Shel


 

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Could I check Shell, do you mean the baked croutons recipe or the soup?

Neither - in this case it's for a meat sauce (http://www.cooksillustrated.com/recipes/4126-simple-italian-style-meat-sauce?extcode=K00NCSW00), something I don't usually make, as I was gifted with several pounds of good, grass-fed ground beef from a friend's ranch yesterday.

 ... Shel


 

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Ah - in that case the bread will have dissolved into a paste anyway, so the original texture would not be that important. I would think you could just use a soft white roll if you can buy them singly from your baker and want to avoid waste, but yes, cheapo bread will be fine too (you can also use crackers or panko, as it is the action of the starch molecules in coating the protein in the beef, rather than the original form of the bread, that's important).

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Thanks for the suggestion to use panko or rolls and for the education. What you say makes sense.

Sometimes it's frustrating when a "expert source" suggests something very specific, and I don't know why they've made the recommendation. I've got panko aplenty, and can always get a nice roll from any of several good bakeries, scoop the insides, and use the rest for a sandwich. And I don't have to make a special trip to the local supermarket, which I detest.

 ... Shel


 

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Good quality white bread (supermarket version) has to me, usually ment Pepperidge Farm or Arnold's Brick Oven. Firm, not much crust, soft crust, tight crumb, moistish. HTH!

Those breads are unavailable here, AFAIK. Maybe someone knows an adequate substitute in the San Francisco area.

For future reference, closest would be Orowheat breads. I find a Thomas English muffin works well for this purpose, too
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You can use panko, but generally they're just slightly dried CBP bread - the cheapest, most basic loaf in the supermarket. You can make a panade with good white bread or with cheap white bread. But it would be a mistake to think that a panko panade equates to the former.

QUIET!  People are trying to pontificate.

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I don't mean to presume on my third post but... it's trivial to make your own "white bread". Flour, water, salt, yeast. No big deal and anyone making Italian recipes can easily use a small loaf in a week or two since it freezes perfectly.

Edited by William Colsher (log)
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I cannot read the whole recipe but what is Italian in this recipe? The fact that is served with pasta? Sorry, but sometimes I get very annoyed.

Looks like a pretty generic meat sauce. Olive oil, garlic, tomatoes and tomato paste, oregano. What would it take to make it Italian enough? It might not be terribly authentic, but it seems more Italian to me than anything else.

I can imagine that US Italian is laughable to a real Italian. What is it that is missing?

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I cannot read the whole recipe but what is Italian in this recipe? The fact that is served with pasta? Sorry, but sometimes I get very annoyed.

Please, Franci, try not to get annoyed - it's only a recipe. If the author wants to call it Italian, so what ... we reinvent things all the time. It really pissed me off when the Italians took as their own carciofi alla giudea - but what the hell, after years of therapy I was able to get past it. :wink:

 ... Shel


 

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I don't mean to presume on my third post but... it's trivial to make your own "white bread". Flour, water, salt, yeast. No big deal and anyone making Italian recipes can easily use a small loaf in a week or two since it freezes perfectly.

Perhaps for you it's trivial, but not for me. As noted in my original post, a) I don't like white bread, and b) it could remain in the freezer for months, if not years. I don't want to spend all the time required to make a loaf of bread when all I need, and want, is a single slice.

 ... Shel


 

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... So what's the difference? ...

What's the difference between Hershey's and Lindt 85% ? They're both chocolate.

I'd say the main difference here, as a panade ingredient, is flavour. Whether or not you see that as important to the recipe you have (and which I haven't looked at) is up to you. Whether it was actually important to the recipe writer or whether it was knee-jerk food-quality-ism, is for the writer to know.

You look much nicer in that red pinafore, by the way.

QUIET!  People are trying to pontificate.

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'Good quality' isn't particularly useful when deciding what to use in a panade, and neither is the specification of the bread as 'white' (although whole-grain breads tend to be pretty compact, I've often used bread that was somewhere between white and whole grain, with great results). The texture of the bread (and how much panade you use) seems to matter most.

I've found the fine-textured sandwich-type bread tends to break down and turns pasty in a panade, making for a denser end-product, whereas open-structured 'rustic' type breads, with a hard crust and a very resilient, chewy crumb retain their texture a lot more, and make for a less compact whatever-you're-using-your-panade-in.

Michaela, aka "Mjx"
Manager, eG Forums
mscioscia@egstaff.org

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Italian-Style I think it said.

that for CI means Italian American style. if it has Olive oil, tomatoes and tomato paste, you are 90 to "Italian-American" right there

think Chef Boy-R-Dee. in the can, and in the movie " Ratattouille "

:blink:

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I've found the fine-textured sandwich-type bread tends to break down and turns pasty in a panade, making for a denser end-product, whereas open-structured 'rustic' type breads, with a hard crust and a very resilient, chewy crumb retain their texture a lot more, and make for a less compact whatever-you're-using-your-panade-in.

It seems that you include the crust when making a panade with this type of bread, yes?

 ... Shel


 

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it doesnt matter. what matters is that the bread be of a fine texture so that the milk/cream is well absorbed.

if you have a food processor wizz it a bit in that.

its really the fats and proteins in the milk that give you the 'tenderness' that a panade adds to meat/balls.

the fine bread just keeps the milk fat and proteins close to the meat, rather than draining away while the meat cooks.

go find the Test Kitchen show where they talk about this. sorry, I cant remember which one it is. they probably have mentioned in

many shows.

Edited by rotuts (log)
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