Cooking Dried Beans

[BarbaraY]

As a child, I lived in a town with a large Mexican population. No one ever soaked their beans so I have rarely soaked.

I have used the pressure cooker and one of my daughters uses nothing else but I prefer the long stove time over the pressure cooker. Just seems to have a better texture.

[rancho_gordo]

I am all over the map on this subject. I normally soak in the a.m. and cook beans in the afternoon. Fresh, normal beans really don't need soaking. You can just cook them and plan on them taking more time.

All the old world beans seem to need a good soak. And runner beans and limas, too. How long depends on your source.

andiesenji describes the "quick soak" method but I never understood this technique. If the beans are "soaking" in warm water, aren't you really cooking them? Why not just bring them to a boil and then simmer then until done, the normal way? They'll still be done in your 1 1/2 to 2 1/2 hours.

I think beans should really be eaten within 2 years of harvest, if you can. I've had luck with much older beans, but they did take some time.

Pallee, I think 4-6 hours is plenty for fresh beans. the only time I've ever had problems with fresh beans (under 2 years old) was when they were soaked over 24 hours. It was as if they extra soak toughened them!

BarbaraY, I think you're right about the texture. They are dense and fudgey. Not bad, but different.

Now the next thread needs to be: do you change the water after soaking?

[Wolfert]

Rancho Gordo,

Thank you for writing that your runners need some soaking!

I had trouble getting t hem to cook to perfect tenderness when I skipped the soak. On a second try, I did my usual overnight soak and they tasted fabulous. In fact, I would call your white runners "best of breed." I'm not surprised that Thomas Keller uses them at his restaurant.

Another problem with bean cookery not mentioned upthread is soft versus hard water. I use mineral-rich well (hard) water and it makes a difference in bringing out the flavor of many foods, but it inhibits proper bean cookery. Perhaps soft, distilled water is the way to go if you want to soak beans.

Has anyone tried adding a pinch of baking soda to the soak? I've seen many recipes in Italian suggesting its use. I was always under the impression it makes the beans taste soapy. Any comments on this?

As for throwing out the soaking water: I think you lose some nutrients. On the other hand you do gain some comfort.

Has anyone else read Vogue this month? There is an innovative 'non soak' method for beans byJeffrey Steingarten.

Edited February 27, 2006 by Wolfert (log)

[rancho_gordo]

Thanks, Wolfert. I'm blushing!

I have well water, too. We have some kind of filter gizmo on the whole system but it's still hard. I use the Brita filtered water for cooking, just in case.

I can't remember where I read it but a chemist gave a big NAY to the baking soda thing and I can't recall why except it does something negative to the nutrients.

After cooking beans twice a week (at least) for five or so years, I think it's still key to keep an open mind and remember there are few absolutes except that beans taste great.

[slbunge]

I soaked some Rancho Gordo runner beans (Cellini) this past friday for about six hours prior to cooking and they turned out fantastic. The water used is right from the tap here in Madison and it is quite hard compared to most municipal water systems. My method was to soak and cook in the same water.

An interesting thing that I noticed was after the soak, many of the bean skins were puckered or wrinkled. Perhaps an indication that the flesh was not expanding at the same rate as the skin? Not sure.

After about, er, 2.5 to 3 hours (?) in an enameled cast iron pot on the stove, the beans had plumped very nicely and there was no more wrinkled skin.

Sure, for dinner that evening I made some elaborate recipe with these wonderful beans, but I took great pleasure the next morning in a simple meal of beans sauteed in a bit of olive oil, basted eggs and toast.

One other question for the group. For leftover beans, do you leave the beans in their cooking liquor? I did, but just curious what others do.

[little ms foodie]

We have been eating this yummy soup for lunches but I also wondered about freezing cooked cannellinis or great northerns? would they get mushy and fall apart?

[mrbigjas]

We have been eating this yummy soup for lunches but I also wondered about freezing cooked cannellinis or great northerns? would they get mushy and fall apart?

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i have frozen cooked beans many times with very little loss in texture. go for it.

[A Patric]

Has anyone else read Vogue this month? There is an innovative  'non soak' method for  beans byJeffrey Steingarten.

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Hmmm. No, I haven't read it, but I think I will have to. I love good bean dishes and so any innovative method used by Steingarten interests me. In fact, I just made a favorite recipe of frijoles refritos from Rick Bayless' Authentic Mexican using black turtle beans, and they were delicious. He does recommend the quick soak method if you run out of time, but it does seem on second thought, as some point out above, that simply cooking them would be even faster.

Alan

Edited February 27, 2006 by A Patric (log)

[russ parsons]

i did try the baking soda trick when i was doing my first reporting on the subject and i found that it didn't work at all for me. the skins slipped terribly. but then i've also seen recipes that call for adding a pinch of baking soda to vegetables while cooking, and that didn't work either.

[A Patric]

I finally finished Steingarten's Vogue article on beans. He does experiments on bean cooking using everything we've talked about, from overnight soaks to quick soaks to no soak. He cooks with and without both baking soda and salt. He tries a pressure cooker, normal boiling, and even cooking in a double boiler. It is quite interesting what he discovers.

I'd say it is worth a read for any who want whole tender-skinned beans with creamy interiors. Of course for refried beans or bean dips, it wouldn't really matter.

Alan

[chefzadi]

I orderd a bunch of beans from Rancho Gordo recently. I tried the flageolets first!!! Unbelieveble flavor and texture!!! Yes, it doesn't surprise me either at that Chef Keller uses Rancho's beans. They are definately top quality. Very distinctive products that help preserve biodiversity too.

I made a spicy Algerian/Tunisian style lamb and bean stew with his flageolets.

I soaked the flageolets overnight.

[lperry]

*Bump*

I've just read through this thread and am completely inspired. Recently I discovered a market selling different varieties of Central and South American beans (most of which I had never encountered), and I'm looking forward to trying the Parsons Oven Method to cook them. My recent purchases include canary beans, a yellow/brown largish bean from Peru, and Salvadoran red beans, tiny little guys that look almost like azuki beans.

In Belize, I had wonderful beans and rice that were cooked in coconut milk, and I'm curious. Has anyone has tried the oven method with a liquid other than water?

[Lynnette]

More beanery: I have a very good client who uses Runner Cannellini as part of his signature dish. He was happy with the taste but he told me too many of the beans were falling apart, making for a delicious soup but that's not what he was after. Runner Cannellini are even softer than regular cannellini ("bush" beans) and there is some breakage, but nothing like 50%. I cooked the beans again and couldn't replicate his problem. We talked and it turns out he salts right out the gate and I always wait until I can smell beans (which is almost completely cooked). <snip> A few notes from the laboratory. I cook beans almost daily, FWIW.

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I made Paula Wolfert's Cassoulet in the Style of Toulouse last week. I had ordered some Tarbais beans but did not get enough, so I added the Runner Cannellini beans that I recently bought from you. I did soak both beans overnight, and added them to the pork ragu with no extra salt added. I was amazed at the end product. The beans were rich and tender and unlike ANY I have cooked from scratch. The cassoulet was thick, so it was difficult to determine if any fell apart, but all the beans I noticed were intact and plump.

I was thinking of using the Rio Zape beans for red beans and rice; Rancho do you think this be a good pairing?

Lynnette, in MN

[KitchenQueen]

Not being a professional, I don't know a danged thing about beans.

But being born in the South I ate them constantly. All kinds.

Louisiana Red Beans and rice? I grew up in New Orleans.

I don't know why but there is NO bean that compares to Camellia brand. Period.

And I've tried them all.

And my ALL TIME comfort food is dried limas.Cooked to almost a mushy thick

soup.

Salt and ham hocks. No ham hocks? Bacon grease will suffice.

Yeah, I know it's not gourmet, but it's what many southern kids yearn for sometimes.

I used to be able to (and still would if I could) eat them daily.

Now that I'm much older I can only eat them from Friday to Saturday night, when no company is expected.

I need 24 hours. Get my drift?

Why does that not happen till you hit late adulthood,before, it's no

no problem at all?

I love lima bean soup.

The more I can't eat them, the more I crave them.

If anyone has a solution as to how I can have them anytime I want, I'll buy you a new car.

[snowangel]

BTW, Kitchenqueen, your new LC is the idea way to cook beans. Don't bother soaking them.

[KitchenQueen]

BTW, Kitchenqueen, your new LC is the idea way to cook beans.  Don't bother soaking them.

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And Snowangel comes through again..

Love Ya Lady!

You iz a prize, yes you iz!

[BarbaraY]

A few days ago there was a thread on Tuscan Bean Soup so I decided I wanted some. I had everything in the house to do this but my Canellini beans had been in the cupboard for at least three and possibly four years.

I figured if the beans didn't soften right I could just toss them. I covered them with water and slowly brought them to the boil for about 2 minutes and let them sit for two hours. They wrinkled terribly but only three didn't appear to have softened so I removed them.

I then brought them, again slowly, to a boil and let them simmer until the were nearly tender enough.

I was truly surprised to find that beans that old could become tender but they did and the soup was very good.

I think the very slow simmering may have been what saved them.

Aside from the above, neither of us experienced any flatulence.

Having lived my early years in a Mexican neighborhood, I usually do not soak beans.

My water is highly alkaline and doesn't cause any cooking problems that I am aware of.

Baking soda, IMHO, gives beans a very unpleasant texture.

[rancho_gordo]

Lynette wrote:

I was thinking of using the Rio Zape beans for red beans and rice; Rancho do you think this be a good pairing?

I don't think so. They're incredibly rich and I think they'd be almost too much (and I'm a pig!) We grow a beautiful cranberry style bean called Bayo (from Bayou) and I've been told it's an authentic bean for the dish. i sent almost all the seed I have to farmer in LA to help after Katrina hit and hopefully they'll be growing them out this Spring.

For me with the Rio Zape, I'd cook them with a touch of fat, onion and garlic and then serve them with some minced white onion and a squeeze of lime. You'll get a hint of chocolate with this one. Tortillas and salad and you're home free. it's an amazing bean and if you garden, try saving a few for string beans.

The cassoulet sounds SWELL, by the way.

KitchenQueen says:

I don't know why but there is NO bean that compares to Camellia brand. Period.

They must be popular for a reason! I wouldn't argue with a southerner about this dish any more than I'd tell a Yankee how to make baked beans (although I do hear the hardcore baked bean freaks prefer Vermont Cranberry or Jacobs Cattle, depending on the region.)

I hear the NYTimes is doing a piece on baked beans, by the way. Tomorrow in the magazine.

BarbaraY says:

I was truly surprised to find that beans that old could become tender but they did and the soup was very good.

You know, Babs, in modern terms, 3-4 years is not considered old! It's sad but true and some beans in the grocery store can be quite a bit older and stored improperly.

I agree with you about the baking soda. In a word: Yuck.

[Lynnette]

Lynette wrote:

I was thinking of using the Rio Zape beans for red beans and rice; Rancho do you think this be a good pairing?

I don't think so. They're incredibly rich and I think they'd be almost too much (and I'm a pig!) We grow a beautiful cranberry style bean called Bayo (from Bayou) and I've been told it's an authentic bean for the dish. i sent almost all the seed I have to farmer in LA to help after Katrina hit and hopefully they'll be growing them out this Spring.

For me with the Rio Zape, I'd cook them with a touch of fat, onion and garlic and then serve them with some minced white onion and a squeeze of lime. You'll get a hint of chocolate with this one. Tortillas and salad and you're home free. it's an amazing bean and if you garden, try saving a few for string beans.

The cassoulet sounds SWELL, by the way.

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Hi Rancho,

I did not see your reply before I jumped in to make Red Beans and Rice with the Rio Zape... while the cooked beans were not red, they were wonderfully rich. I used the trinity vegetables, with garlic and a ham hock in the recipe. Maybe it is just your fresh heirloom beans, or that I am using more natural, grass-fed fats, but again, the finished dish was simply awesome.

The cassoulet was indeed awesome, thanks! I am having errors uploading the images, but when I solve the problem, I will post them under Paula's Cooking of SW France forum.

The bottom line, is that I WILL be ordering more beans from you!!

Thanks,

Lynnette

[JaclynM]

If I am making a soup or stew in a crockpot/slow-cooker that calls for beans, and I decide to use dried beans, how much should they be cooked in advance? In one book, I read that you should just soak them (either soaking overnight, or a "quick soak" where you boil some water, turn off the heat, and let them soak for an hour), because if you fully cook them ahead of time, they will turn to mush. But in another book, it seemed to imply that the beans should be fully cooked before going in the crockpot. After all, if you use canned beans in a crockpot, then you are essentially using beans that have been fully cooked ahead of time, right?

(The reason I want to use dried beans instead of canned is because I'm trying to cut down on sodium. Also, my husband's blood pressure is a bit high, and I'm hoping that lower sodium meals will help.)

Edited August 16, 2006 by JaclynM (log)

[Dave Hatfield]

If I am making a soup or stew in a crockpot/slow-cooker that calls for beans, and I decide to use dried beans, how much should they be cooked in advance? In one book, I read that you should just soak them (either soaking overnight, or a "quick soak" where you boil some water, turn off the heat, and let them soak for an hour), because if you fully cook them ahead of time, they will turn to mush. But in another book, it seemed to imply that the beans should be fully cooked before going in the crockpot. After all, if you use canned beans in a crockpot, then you are essentially using beans that have been fully cooked ahead of time, right?

(The reason I want to use dried beans instead of canned is because I'm trying to cut down on sodium. Also, my husband's blood pressure is a bit high, and I'm hoping that lower sodium meals will help.)

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I'd definitly soak the dry beans by either method you mention THEN start the crockpot cooking.

I wouldn't use canned pre-cooked beans at all. In addition to the salt I can only worry about what else in in them to keep them from falling apart.

Then again I don't use pre-cooked anything & hardly any canned goods.

[jayt90]

If I am making a soup or stew in a crockpot/slow-cooker that calls for beans, and I decide to use dried beans, how much should they be cooked in advance? In one book, I read that you should just soak them (either soaking overnight, or a "quick soak" where you boil some water, turn off the heat, and let them soak for an hour), because if you fully cook them ahead of time, they will turn to mush. But in another book, it seemed to imply that the beans should be fully cooked before going in the crockpot. After all, if you use canned beans in a crockpot, then you are essentially using beans that have been fully cooked ahead of time, right?

(The reason I want to use dried beans instead of canned is because I'm trying to cut down on sodium. Also, my husband's blood pressure is a bit high, and I'm hoping that lower sodium meals will help.)

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Jacclyn, I had a BP problem for several years until the doc got the right level of pills (avalide) and I started to eliminate all trans fats. I don't worry about salt, cream or eggs now. And I read the nutritio labels when available.

Most beans will need some precooking before going into the crockpot. Bring them to a quick boil for 2-3 minutes, and let stand until cooled. Try to buy fresh dried beans as they will come around more quickly. At this time of year most of the U.S. will be selling last year's crop, but this year's should be available from Texas, Mexico, or California.

[rancho_gordo]

My second appearance on In Wine Country was on last week. Here's a somewhat simplistic guide to making beans. Link.

Remember, the camera adds about 50 pounds. Don't argue with me. It's a fact!

[melonpan]

yay for no soak! yay for presalting!

yay yay yay for beans!

[Lapin d'Argent]

yay for no soak!  yay for presalting!

yay yay yay for beans!

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I agree!

A beautiful pot of Rancho Gordo's perfect cannellini beans are on the stove right now, becoming tuscan bean soup, a la Cook's Illustrated .

The recipe is the best I've come across, and can be found in the Jan/Feb 2001 issue, for those of you who have bound annuals going back to 1993 and subscribe every year to the magazine and then still have to get the bound annual at the end of the year for more permanent storage. Not that we have a problem. We could stop any time we wanted to.

I'm sorry, what were we talking about -- oh yeah, beans! Love Rancho Gordo's beans! Nice video Steve; you look marvelous! And congratulations on all the wonderful food press coverage lately; well deserved.

- L.