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Sous Vide: Recipes, Techniques & Equipment, 2011


Qwerty
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Hi Doug,

Nonetheless, what we do is science-based and well justified in the literature.

[snip]

I coded up some numerical methods back in 2009 and they seemed like they worked great until I actually compared them with experiments.

:laugh: :laugh:

Isn't it irritating how real life experiments have this habit of biting your backside when you're not looking!

(I say this in sympathy, as a (well retired) ex chemist). As this is my first post on this topic, can I quickly say how much I appreciate all the hard work you and others have put into this fascinating cooking method.

Passim... I cooked 3 duck foie gras today sous vide at 66°C, one was in a terrine, and the other two in (4) vac packs each cut in half after marinating and before packing. If I had to restrict SV cookery to just one single thing, it would be this. The results are uniformly fantastic.

All the best

Ian (yes in France)

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Today I made Char Siu Take Two. (Actually it's the 4th time, but take two rhymes with char siu!) This was probably the best batch I have made. It's not traditional in that it's very lean without the fat and gristle common in the char siu made with pork butt or shoulder, but that was the point!

char-siu-two.jpg

char-siu-two-sliced.jpg

Previously I had cooked it for 4 hours at 130F. Today was 4 hours at 140F. It was, of course, less pink, but still tender and juicy and we all liked the texture much better. So this is the way I will be doing it from now on.

To recap, I start with pork tenderloin. Rub it liberally with a packaged char siu powder (normally intended to be mixed with water to form a marinade) then vacuum seal it and refrigerate for about 12 hours. Then into the bath for 4-5 hours at 140F. Remove from bath and pat dry, then baste on all sides with honey. Char it on a very hot BBQ for a few minutes on each side (or you can do it under a broiler). Remove and rebaste with honey and allow to rest a while, then slice.

Mark

My eG Food Blog

www.markiscooking.com

My T shirt site: Guy Bling

My NEW Ribs site: BlasphemyRibs.com

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I've been having some trouble with my bagged items getting sucked towards the circulator and blocking the pump, so i decided to make a guard of sorts.

I have 1 question though. I got a decorative aluminum sheet made out of mill spec aluminum, apparently uncoated. Normally these sheets are used as decorative things on doors...i should be ok health wise right? I know we cook in aluminum pots, and i don't buy into the aluminum/Alzheimers connection...but want to make sure i'm not poisoning myself based on the aluminum grade or type.

got it at home depot. Cut it, and rolled it into a cylinder.

photo.JPG

How's this working out so far Jason? I have an IC of a very similar Lauda model and I need to do something to keep items away from the pump as well.

To kind of close the loop on this one...based on a picture that Vengroff posted upthread and a tip from him I ended up getting a rack from Sous Vide Supreme: Click to See and Buy.

This is perfect and I had no clue that they sell them seperately. It keeps the food away from the pump/heater and helps organizing it and keeping it submerged. Hope this helps.

E. Nassar
Houston, TX

My Blog
contact: enassar(AT)gmail(DOT)com

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I've been having some trouble with my bagged items getting sucked towards the circulator and blocking the pump, so i decided to make a guard of sorts.

I have 1 question though. I got a decorative aluminum sheet made out of mill spec aluminum, apparently uncoated. Normally these sheets are used as decorative things on doors...i should be ok health wise right? I know we cook in aluminum pots, and i don't buy into the aluminum/Alzheimers connection...but want to make sure i'm not poisoning myself based on the aluminum grade or type.

got it at home depot. Cut it, and rolled it into a cylinder.

photo.JPG

How's this working out so far Jason? I have an IC of a very similar Lauda model and I need to do something to keep items away from the pump as well.

To kind of close the loop on this one...based on a picture that Vengroff posted upthread and a tip from him I ended up getting a rack from Sous Vide Supreme: Click to See and Buy.

This is perfect and I had no clue that they sell them seperately. It keeps the food away from the pump/heater and helps organizing it and keeping it submerged. Hope this helps.

Looks pretty good. What are teh dimenions? I have a 12x18x9 cambro..wondering if the rack will fit in there.

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I've been having some trouble with my bagged items getting sucked towards the circulator and blocking the pump, so i decided to make a guard of sorts.

I have 1 question though. I got a decorative aluminum sheet made out of mill spec aluminum, apparently uncoated. Normally these sheets are used as decorative things on doors...i should be ok health wise right? I know we cook in aluminum pots, and i don't buy into the aluminum/Alzheimers connection...but want to make sure i'm not poisoning myself based on the aluminum grade or type.

got it at home depot. Cut it, and rolled it into a cylinder.

photo.JPG

How's this working out so far Jason? I have an IC of a very similar Lauda model and I need to do something to keep items away from the pump as well.

To kind of close the loop on this one...based on a picture that Vengroff posted upthread and a tip from him I ended up getting a rack from Sous Vide Supreme: Click to See and Buy.

This is perfect and I had no clue that they sell them seperately. It keeps the food away from the pump/heater and helps organizing it and keeping it submerged. Hope this helps.

Looks pretty good. What are teh dimenions? I have a 12x18x9 cambro..wondering if the rack will fit in there.

It will certainly fit. I use the same Cambro container. You can almost fit two of them in there actually.

E. Nassar
Houston, TX

My Blog
contact: enassar(AT)gmail(DOT)com

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Today I made Char Siu Take Two.

Awesome looking pork loin. I'm definitely going to have to try your technique.

Thanks vengroff!

Just remember that I use pork tenderloin (the little skinny ones that usually come vacuum packed) which I assume is different cut than just a loin.

Any thoughts on my suggestion for the program?

Mark

My eG Food Blog

www.markiscooking.com

My T shirt site: Guy Bling

My NEW Ribs site: BlasphemyRibs.com

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Hi,

Just remember that I use pork tenderloin (the little skinny ones that usually come vacuum packed) which I assume is different cut than just a loin.

It certainly is. It comes from the other side of the T bone. Think beef. As tenderloin is to the fillet so loin of pork is to sirloin.

Given that it's already normally very tender, I'm unconvinced as to whether it's a prime candidate for sous videry. I just marinate mine, and then blast 'em. Because the meat is tender to start with and marinated, it ends up succulent and delicious.

All the best

Ian (yes in France)

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I'd just like to point out that sous vide cooking is not only for tenderising tough cuts of meat.

No one can say chicken breast, fish, turkey breast, or even pork loin are not tender.

The prime use of sous vide for these meats is to produce a much more succulent cooked piece of meat that cannot easily be reproduced using conventional cooking techniques.

Nick Reynolds, aka "nickrey"

"The Internet is full of false information." Plato
My eG Foodblog

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I'd just like to point out that sous vide cooking is not only for tenderising tough cuts of meat.

No one can say chicken breast, fish, turkey breast, or even pork loin are not tender.

The prime use of sous vide for these meats is to produce a much more succulent cooked piece of meat that cannot easily be reproduced using conventional cooking techniques.

I completely agree. Indeed this is the kind of sous vide cooking I do far more often than 48-hour short ribs or similar.

Chief Scientist / Amateur Cook

MadVal, Seattle, WA

Proud signatory to the eG Ethics code

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vengroff, i understand exactly what you're doing, and makes perfect sense.

Question: will there be an option to choose what pathogen to pasteurize for? For example, for beef we'd want to do it for e.coli if we're doing it for anything, but for chicken it would be salmonella....

very looking forward to the update. Did you also increase the allowable thicknesses on the items that were limited?

Thanks!

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vengroff, i understand exactly what you're doing, and makes perfect sense.

Question: will there be an option to choose what pathogen to pasteurize for? For example, for beef we'd want to do it for e.coli if we're doing it for anything, but for chicken it would be salmonella....

In the first release with pasteurization I put in data for common pathogens in the foods in which they commonly occur. So, for example, in beef that means E. Coli, Listeria, and Salmonella. For chicken it means Listeria and Salmonella. I suspect I will add more as I gather more data. You can't turn individual pathogens on and off; or any given food the app simply reports on everything I could find data for. It's one more setting to add some flexibility, but there are a lot of settings already, so I want to slow down a little and not make the UI that much more complex by adding more unless I really need them. Aside from the graphs like the ones I showed above, each pathogen has a little summary like this:

Screen shot 2011-12-05 at 9.51.11 PM.png

You can flick your finger in that little area to scroll through the pathogens and look at the ones that interest you most. For me, the graph is actually the more interesting way to look at it, but I did want to provide the numbers too.

Although the app started out as something simple to augment the existing published tables for my own personal hobby use, it has now kind of taken on a life of its own with the various new features added since the initial release. The pre-release QA script, for example, is now close to fifty steps and I'm sure it doesn't test everything and hasn't uncovered every last bug.

I'm now in the mode of trying to simplify things a bit for the new or casual user. There is so much information on the main screen and settings now that it can be a little overwhelming for people just getting started. I'm kicking around some ideas to make it simpler without losing any of the functionality advanced users like you are clamoring for.

very looking forward to the update. Did you also increase the allowable thicknesses on the items that were limited?

I did make some changes there, especially since the app now allows six hours for pasteurization settings, vs. the original four hours without, which means bigger items can be accommodated. There is likely more of that to come in future updates as well.

Thanks!

Thanks to you and all the others here who have provided feedback to make the app that much better.

Chief Scientist / Amateur Cook

MadVal, Seattle, WA

Proud signatory to the eG Ethics code

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Any thoughts on my suggestion for the program?

You suggested the recommended cooking times for tenderization, correct? Pasteurization is rolling out soon and that will probably come next.

Tenderization and sometimes texture and overall effect. For example, you can cook chicken thighs just like breasts, and they'd technically be "done" and also tender, but people seem to prefer them cooked at a higher temperature and for a much longer time. Not sure what to call that.

Mark

My eG Food Blog

www.markiscooking.com

My T shirt site: Guy Bling

My NEW Ribs site: BlasphemyRibs.com

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Any thoughts on my suggestion for the program?

You suggested the recommended cooking times for tenderization, correct? Pasteurization is rolling out soon and that will probably come next.

Tenderization and sometimes texture and overall effect. For example, you can cook chicken thighs just like breasts, and they'd technically be "done" and also tender, but people seem to prefer them cooked at a higher temperature and for a much longer time. Not sure what to call that.

I think the problem with that is that that's no longer a science based calculation, it's completely subjective. What my preference or "tender"

Is might be different from yours.

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Somewhat shameful, but I thought I'd share tonight's dinner:

Sous Vide Ribwich

I didn't really have a recipe in mind when this one started, but I was at the market and found a package of beef back ribs for $2.29/lb. I figured I could almost certainly do something with that, so I scooped up $4 package. Bagged up with kosher salt and black pepper, dropped in the SV at 60C and promptly forgotten about for 3 days.

Top Left: Out of the bags, and briefly seared on the stovetop to get some extra flavor/texture. Still not entirely sure how I'm going to have these for dinner.

Bottom Left: Noted that the beef rib bones have some awkward angles that would make taking them straight to the face awkward. Opt to shred the meat off the bones with some forks

Right: I ponder trying to make a pan sauce with the drippings from the meat, but in the spirit of cheapness and laziness, I notice leftover buns from the previous night's short rib sandwiches, and a long forgotten bottle of KC Masterpiece BBQ sauce in the back of the fridge. Win.

Thoughts: Milder than the short ribs I've been doing, a bit firmer and less fatty. Perfect texture for a barbeque sandwich, but I feel like the sauce was cheating. Don't own a smoker for doing real barbeque, but I wonder how liquid smoke would do in the sous vide.

Beef Rib Sandwich.jpg

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I'd just like to point out that sous vide cooking is not only for tenderising tough cuts of meat.

No one can say chicken breast, fish, turkey breast, or even pork loin are not tender.

The prime use of sous vide for these meats is to produce a much more succulent cooked piece of meat that cannot easily be reproduced using conventional cooking techniques.

Yes, you're quite right and as vengroff said, I also use sous vide more with tender cuts to make them more succulent. I was careless in my language. I really intended to refer to the specific usage. Marinating to make Char siu. The marinating already makes for a result that is as juicy and tender as one could ask for. That said I've not tried it.

I may be in a minority, but if I'm going to use sous videry, then it is to solve a particular problem rather than out of general principles. For example, when buying a chicken, the breast and legs need cooking differently to both sow at their best IMO. So I joint my chicken and get the best out of both cuts by cooking them both sous vide.

But it has to be admitted that it's a bit of a fiddle, particularly with meat that's marinated. (I use a clamp vacuum sealer). When cooking char siu, I marinate my meat, roast/grill (using alternating surround and grill heat) for as long as it takes to get the meat surface nicely charred. It's beautifully juicy & tender in the middle. Now if someone can give me a proper recipe to follow with quantities and all, (don't need pics) I'd love to give it a try. And if I'm wrong and the results are better than I normally get I'll be the first to come back and say so.

Edited by ianinfrance (log)

All the best

Ian (yes in France)

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