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Sous Vide: Recipes, Techniques & Equipment, 2011


Qwerty
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Its not roast turkey:

SV turkey breast @ 140 for 3 hours:

...

it might be good with a light creamy mushroom sauce etc with something else crunchy on the plate.

Did you do anything with the skin? You could crisp it separately either on the stovetop or in the oven then serve it with the breast meat. Crispy fried turkey skin strips sprinkled over the top maybe?

Chief Scientist / Amateur Cook

MadVal, Seattle, WA

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I didnt have the time nor space to crisp up the skin using the double cookie sheet method.

In thinking about my dinner, that would be one way to go to add 'roast turkey' flavor, turkey cracklings.

in the future I might pack the skin in a SV bag and freeze it then use it for the cracklings as the turkey would be all ready to go.

i was very surprised that the turkey was still slightly pink (in a good sense) but very tender and moist. turkey itself is not a powerfully flavored meat, and this meat would benefit from a subtle gravy over traditional 'roast' gravy. each piece has a different seasoning on it pre SV. the piece I had tonight has Sauer's Mesquite on it. delicious but next time Ill add less as its quite smoky

I have the dark meat in the SV now: Im using 160 for 24 hours as thats all I could find for a ref.

it will make a very interesting dinner tomorrow. but what I really like about this technique: Ill have two 22 lbs turkeys white and dark meat all set to go for the future, where i can work harder on what complements each. the dark meat I left on the bone: thighs and legs. I used a trick I saw Jullia Child use on her 'deconstructed' turkey: chop off about 1 - 2 " of the end of the leg: the meat then has the tendons exposed and you just pull them out after cooling. we will see if that works with SV at 160.

Edited by rotuts (log)
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i tried the dark meat:

160 F 224 hours. i have skinned thighs and skinned legs. on the legs I chopped off 1-2" of the distal bone. learned this from Julia Child: makes it easy to pull out the tendons.

I was a little concerned when the meat was done and in the ice bath: it had a lot of 'jus' which makes sense both on the temp and timing.

I reaheated the meat at 150 in a small bath. i snipped just the corner of the bag and poured the liquid in the saucier I was using for a little gravy.

one problem with SV meat is that its not piping hot and cools very quickly especially in a cold kitchen while you finish all the other stuff up:

I curled the snipped bag and stapled it shut and put it back in the water bath that was now off keeping the sniped end out of the water: worked well

the meat itself was especially moist and very tender. not over SV'd at all. it was delicious. the 'jus' was exceptional too:

I used Sauer's Prime Rib rub a favorite of mine:

http://www.cfsauer.com/products.asp?id=24

this worked very well on both the white meat and dark especially. it has sage and rosemary in the mix.

just in terms of the meat on the turkey, I cant imagine cooking it any other way in the future: the work is done and all you have to do it "reconstuct" it in a way that gives you the "trimmings"

hope some one else tries this and reports:

for me: white 140 F 3 hours, all tendon/silverskiin removed; dark 160 F 24 hours. seasonings of your choice.

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I agree... SV turkey is the way to go...

One way to get more of the roasted flavor is to take some trimmings and brown in a fry pan and add to the bag prior to cooking... not the same as a true roasted turkey, but adds roasted smell...

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Ditto on SV turkey. I did mine yesterday. I bought a 20lb bird from a local turkey farm in my area, brined for 24 hours and cooked the breasts at 150F (2h), thighs at 150F (2.5h) and legs/wings at 140F (8hs). I finished the breasts in the oven for 30 minutes, legs/wings deep fried and tights pan fried. The result was crunchy in the outside and very moist on the inside. Stuffing was done meatloaf stile with breadcrumbs, onion, celery, eggs and turkey liver and stock. I sliced it and grilled just before serving.

DSCN0787.JPG

DSCN0789.JPG

DSCN0807.JPG

Edited by Xilimmns (log)
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We also did a sous vide turkey. We managed to time it right so that we went from the circulator to a quick trip under the broiler, a short rest and then to the table just as all the sides were ready.

The first step was to break down the turkey, and 18 pounder from Rain Shadow Meats.

breakdown.jpg

The wings, neck, and scraps of meat from the carcass went into the pressure cooker with some aromatics to make stock, some of which would later be reduced to become the base of the gravy.

The boneless breasts and whole legs were then bagged with some herbs and a little butter, in place of the duck fat I ended up not having on hand.

breastandbutter.jpg

breasttop.jpg

legbutter.jpg

Once bagged, all four quarters were 50mm thick. By my calculations with SousVide Dash they would come to 60°C in 61°C water in just over three hours. So 3:30 before we planned to sit down at the table they went into the water.

incirculator.jpg

I rotated and rearranged the four bags halfway through just in case there were any hot or cold spots. Three hours later they came out of the bath feeling fulling cooked. The core temperature of both had reached 60°C as I planned. When I cut open the bags, there was an intense aroma from the herbs. Just two sage leaves and a sprig of marjoram had been enough for each bag. Here are the quarters right out of the bags.

outofbath.jpg

From there they went under the broiler to crisp up the skin.

crispskin.jpg

A short rest, and then they were sliced and brought to the table.

platter.jpg

And served with traditional sides and gravy made from the stock and juices from the sous vide bags.

plate.jpg

The turkey was a big hit, especially for those accustomed to the standard sawdust-dry breasts on most roasted Thanksgiving turkeys. I think I'll be hard pressed to ever do a turkey any other way.

Chief Scientist / Amateur Cook

MadVal, Seattle, WA

Proud signatory to the eG Ethics code

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thanks for those delicious pics. Ill try my next bird this way!

SV Turks seems so versatile and easy to prepare "in bulk" to be used for other dishes later.

many thanks for those who SV'd there turk for the extra pointers re that brown skin!

Edited by rotuts (log)
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Question, i was doing some research so to how big a roast i could sous vide, based on the fact that the core temp has to get to 130 in a certain amount of time. I was under the impression that the meat had to get to 130 within 4 hrs.

Then i read this on Douglas' site:

"Moreover, the center of the food should reach 130°F (54.4°C) within 6 hours to prevent the toxin producing pathogen Clostridium perfringens from multiplying to dangerous levels"

In the paragraph below it,it then says:

"With this in mind, the US Food Code requires that such food can only be between 41°F (5°C) and 130°F (54.4°C) for less than 4 hours (FDA, 2009, 3-501.19.B)."

Those 2 statements seem contradictory..any thoughts? Is it 130 in 6 or 130 in 4? The size of sous vidable meat would be quite different between the two.

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Those 2 statements seem contradictory..any thoughts? Is it 130 in 6 or 130 in 4? The size of sous vidable meat would be quite different between the two.

I would assume that the FDA code is more strict to allow for a greater margin of error (like an interruption in the cold chain that went unnoticed).

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Those 2 statements seem contradictory..any thoughts? Is it 130 in 6 or 130 in 4? The size of sous vidable meat would be quite different between the two.

I would assume that the FDA code is more strict to allow for a greater margin of error (like an interruption in the cold chain that went unnoticed).

Could be, but wouldnt' that be applicable to sous vide food?

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Those 2 statements seem contradictory..any thoughts? Is it 130 in 6 or 130 in 4? The size of sous vidable meat would be quite different between the two.

I would assume that the FDA code is more strict to allow for a greater margin of error (like an interruption in the cold chain that went unnoticed).

Could be, but wouldnt' that be applicable to sous vide food?

If you're very sure about your supply chain (or just cooking for yourself) ...

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Question, i was doing some research so to how big a roast i could sous vide, based on the fact that the core temp has to get to 130 in a certain amount of time. I was under the impression that the meat had to get to 130 within 4 hrs.

Then i read this on Douglas' site:

"Moreover, the center of the food should reach 130°F (54.4°C) within 6 hours to prevent the toxin producing pathogen Clostridium perfringens from multiplying to dangerous levels"

In the paragraph below it,it then says:

"With this in mind, the US Food Code requires that such food can only be between 41°F (5°C) and 130°F (54.4°C) for less than 4 hours (FDA, 2009, 3-501.19.B)."

Those 2 statements seem contradictory..any thoughts? Is it 130 in 6 or 130 in 4? The size of sous vidable meat would be quite different between the two.

I discussed this in some detail upthread.

The 4-hour rule doesn't assume that you'll be pasteurizing the food and so vegetative (or active) pathogens are the main concern. Suppose you're heating a piece of fish to a rare-doneness (e.g., 42°C/108°F) then any pathogenic microorganisms in or on the fish will multiply rapidly at this temperature and you have to limit the time to keep these pathogens from reaching a level that'll make a healthy person ill. Indeed, FDA (2011) Table A-2 recommends less than 2 hours above 21°C/70°F and 1 hour above 30°C/86°F to keep these vegetative pathogens from reaching dangerous levels. [Most healthy people have an estimated illness dose of more than 105 microorganisms of the Salmonella species and the pathogenic strains of E. coli; most purchasers require that the raw ingredients have less than 10 Salmonella or E. coli per gram; these times correspond to less than five to ten generations (25=32 and 210=1,024) generations (depending on the pathogen) so a 100 g serving would have less than 102+1.5+1 = 104.5 to 102+3+1 = 106 vegetative pathogens.]

Limiting heating time from fridge to 54.4°C/130°F to less than six hours and then pasteurizing is mainly concerned with toxin formation. The main toxin-forming pathogens are Bacillus cereus, the Clostridium species, and Staphylococcus aureus; FDA (2011) Table A-2 gives a maximum exposure time of 2 hours above 21°C/70°F for the Clostridium species and 3 hours above 21°C/70°F for Bacillus cereus and Staphylococcus aureus. From my mathematical models, this corresponds to a maximum heating time of six hours from fridge to 54.4°C/130°F.

Edited by DouglasBaldwin (log)

My Guide: A Practical Guide to Sous Vide Cooking, which Harold McGee described as "a wonderful contribution."

My Book: Sous Vide for the Home Cook US EU/UK

My YouTube channel — a new work in progress.

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Question, i was doing some research so to how big a roast i could sous vide, based on the fact that the core temp has to get to 130 in a certain amount of time. I was under the impression that the meat had to get to 130 within 4 hrs.

. . . .

Thanks, Douglas, for clarifying the 4h/6h question again.

The answer to "how big a roast i could sous vide" is given in table 2.2 of Douglas' practical guide:

Without pasteurization (4h-rule) the limits are: slab 55mm, cylinder 75mm, sphere 90mm.

With longtime-cooking (24-72h) there is pasteurization automatically included, so the limits (6h-rule) are: slab 65mm, cylinder 95mm, sphere 115mm.

When pasteurizing in short time cooking, Douglas' table 5.1 (meat) and table 4.1 (poultry) set the thickness limit at 70mm.

You see a synopsis of these limits in the thickness ruler.

BTW the 4h/6h-rule has already been addressed in the old SV topic in May 2010.

Peter F. Gruber aka Pedro

eG Ethics Signatory

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Goat ribs have been sprinkled with a BBQ rub and vac'd with some veg. oil and are currently going at 60C. Once done they'll be thrown on the grill for quick browning with or without a glaze...haven't decided.

I know pork ribs come recommended for 48hrs. Anyone have any ideas for goat? I was told by the butcher they took a little longer than pork ribs on the grill, so i'm thinking 48 should also work.

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Ivwe done goat ribs and shoulder on the low and slow bbq, and they took the same amount of time as my low and slow pork ribs.

if you have not had goat before, depending on their age, they have a much stonger flavor than pork

taste them out of the bag then decide what glaze or side sauce you might like.

something sharp and maybe citrus would be a consideration. lime hot and sour. ?

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Question, i was doing some research so to how big a roast i could sous vide, based on the fact that the core temp has to get to 130 in a certain amount of time. I was under the impression that the meat had to get to 130 within 4 hrs.

. . . .

Thanks, Douglas, for clarifying the 4h/6h question again.

The answer to "how big a roast i could sous vide" is given in table 2.2 of Douglas' practical guide:

Without pasteurization (4h-rule) the limits are: slab 55mm, cylinder 75mm, sphere 90mm.

With longtime-cooking (24-72h) there is pasteurization automatically included, so the limits (6h-rule) are: slab 65mm, cylinder 95mm, sphere 115mm.

When pasteurizing in short time cooking, Douglas' table 5.1 (meat) and table 4.1 (poultry) set the thickness limit at 70mm.

You see a synopsis of these limits in the thickness ruler.

BTW the 4h/6h-rule has already been addressed in the old SV topic in May 2010.

Wouldn't this only apply to rolled structures, or something that otherwise had the potential to be contaminated internally? Would whole muscles be exempted from this?

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Ivwe done goat ribs and shoulder on the low and slow bbq, and they took the same amount of time as my low and slow pork ribs.

if you have not had goat before, depending on their age, they have a much stonger flavor than pork

taste them out of the bag then decide what glaze or side sauce you might like.

something sharp and maybe citrus would be a consideration. lime hot and sour. ?

Thanks, i was thinking a tamarind glaze, so that hits the sharp sour note you mention...i'll cook them for 48 then like the pork and go from there.

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Question, i was doing some research so to how big a roast i could sous vide, based on the fact that the core temp has to get to 130 in a certain amount of time. I was under the impression that the meat had to get to 130 within 4 hrs.

. . . .

Thanks, Douglas, for clarifying the 4h/6h question again.

The answer to "how big a roast i could sous vide" is given in table 2.2 of Douglas' practical guide:

Without pasteurization (4h-rule) the limits are: slab 55mm, cylinder 75mm, sphere 90mm.

With longtime-cooking (24-72h) there is pasteurization automatically included, so the limits (6h-rule) are: slab 65mm, cylinder 95mm, sphere 115mm.

When pasteurizing in short time cooking, Douglas' table 5.1 (meat) and table 4.1 (poultry) set the thickness limit at 70mm.

You see a synopsis of these limits in the thickness ruler.

BTW the 4h/6h-rule has already been addressed in the old SV topic in May 2010.

Wouldn't this only apply to rolled structures, or something that otherwise had the potential to be contaminated internally? Would whole muscles be exempted from this?

Yes, provided

  • your meat has a regular surface without any deep clefts
  • your meat has not been jaccarded
  • no one from slaughter to butcher to your kitchen has ever punctured your meat with a fork or the like
  • the animal was not infected with any pathogen without showing signs of disease

In this case, a short dunk in hot water (e.g. 80oC / 1 sec, see the wikiGullet article "Importance of temperature control on pasteurizing times") would pasteurize (the surface of) your meat.

Peter F. Gruber aka Pedro

eG Ethics Signatory

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Hi, haven't seen any comments about the supposed new danger of plastic bags mentioned in these articles: http://chriskresser.com/how-plastic-food-containers-could-be-making-you-fat-infertile-and-sick and http://nomnompaleo.com/post/12463202060/cooking-sous-vide-plastic-safety .

Any opinions?

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