Sous Vide: Recipes, Techniques & Equipment, 2011

[PedroG]

No problem directly from freezer to the SV bath. See Core temperature development in frozen versus refrigerated meat cooked sous vide

[rotuts]

fantastic work PG!

i usually thaw overnight in the coldest part of the refig, but may not any more.

only a 5 min difference for that danger zone.

do you feel that there are any noticeable texture differences?e

Edited October 1, 2011 by rotuts (log)

[PedroG]

fantastic work PG!

i usually thaw overnight in the coldest part of the refig, but may not any more.

only a 5 min difference for that danger zone.

do you feel that there are any noticeable texture differences?e

I never did an organoleptic comparison of non-frozen-SV versus frozen-thawed-SV versus frozen-SV. Anyone else?

[Robert Jueneman]

I've never noticed any significant difference, but I normally go straight from the freezer to the SV bath, in some cases as long as 2 years after sealing the meat.

However, if you want to start an interesting food fight, consider the keeping quality of long term frozen storage, which benefits from as complete a removal of as much oxygen as possible, vs. the claims by Dave Arnold (which I've never been able to duplicate or confirm), that a 99% vacuum on a chamber vacuum somehow hurts the texture of the meat.

[ScottyBoy]

Is there an eGullet friendly link to buy a Sous Vide Professional? I'm not sure how these links work, is it to Amazon?

[mharpo]

The Williams-Sonoma deal isn't bad if you can use the stock pot, which I suspect you may not need. Also, the Cambro tub is nice and works even better if you buy another one (double up for extra insulation) and a matching cover. I bought the polycarb cover from a restaurant supply house and cut out an opening for the SVP... binder clips hold it down nicely and kitchen towels draped over make it even more efficient.

[Robert Jueneman]

I have no experience with the Sous Vide Professional, but I have two of the PolyScience 7306 units with the stainless steel protective cage, which I absolutely love. I opted for that model over the SVP because of the hard water in my area, and the thought that the SVP would be difficult to clean.

I had a local sheet metal worker make a stainless steel box to hold the PolyScience plus the standard Cambro tank, and I have insulated it with some foam-core between the Cambro tank and the outer shell.

In addition, I also have a number of the Sous Vide Magic units, which I use in combination with with several different size rice cookers, as well as with the Fresh Meals Magic circulator and tank.

As I am about to present a 10-course tasting menu and Modernist Cuisine class in Santa Fe, with lots of sous vide, hydrocolloids, etc., we will probably use all of this equipment, in addition to demonstrating their use.

Bob

[ScottyBoy]

I am mostly looking to buy a SVP because I do a lot of the finishing of dishes at the client's homes. I want to look as streamlined as possible. I use SV magic when pre-cooking and shocking but want a nice mobile unit.

[nickrey]

No problem directly from freezer to the SV bath. See Core temperature development in frozen versus refrigerated meat cooked sous vide

Rather than putting together my SVM setup which I store after every use, I thaw and reheat my cooked products in the kitchen sink. To do so, I use a thermometer to check that the temperature never goes below around 57C and top the sink up occasionally with hot water to make sure that it doesn't. The sink holds a larger volume of water than my rice cooker so it has less of a temperature dip when adding frozen food.

[nickrey]

Posted this over in the dinner thread with picture.

Chorizo stuffed calamari. Cooked three hours at 59C. Chilled and refrigerated. Reheat and seared in very hot pan.

Worked like a dream.

[sreeb]

So what do you guys think? Should I just go for the kit or do you think I should try to build this thing? Or even a combination like getting the SousVideMagic with the Roaster. I'm also open to other suggestions that i'm not considering. Like i've seen some people use large coffee pots. I've also seen some other kits out there where you solder things together for $70 to $80 but you end up with a real PID.

I'm just prototyping my setup using parts from lightobject.com

JLD612 PID temp controller $33.50

water resistant PT100 probe $19.50

25A SSR Relay $6.95

line cord cut off some broken small appliance and a $2 receptacle from HD. No packaging yet.

No soldering required as all hookups are made to screw posts.

I have been testing it with an electric frying pan and temperature control looks quite good after an initial auto configure. I have real doubts about a non PID controller as I believe you won't be able to hold close tolerances. The solid state relay allows using a shorter period which may make a difference depending on your heater power, thermal resistance, and thermal mass. Your roaster looks like an interesting option. I haven't actually cooked anything but a couple of eggs so far since I am still awaiting delivery of my vacuum sealer but I'm pleased with the water bath results.

[Msk]

Interesting experiment, but didnt take any pictures.

Bread Pudding sous vide

Cubed dry Challah

Ratios

100% Cream

30% Sugar

30% Whole Egg ( I sometimes add a yolk per 100g of cream)

Vanilla

Vac in bag and cook 180F for 20 minutes

Its basicallly Cooking Issues Sous Vide Creme anglaise instructions withbread.

I considered it a success, delicious soft custardy texture, working on getting the crusty top textural component.

Mike

[Justin Uy]

Good evening all.

I had a quick question for those of us with DIY sous vide setups (or anyone with any particular expertise).

I just got this probe in the mail today:

http://www.virtualvillage.com/thermocouple-temperature-probe-pt100-003820-034.html

to replace this one:

http://www.amazon.com/Waterproof-PT100-Thermocouple-Temperature-Controller/dp/B0052IGFZ4/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1317699329&sr=8-2

mostly due to the higher operating temperature, and the 2 meter probe is somewhat unwieldy.

I installed the new probe and started up my setup (a PID controlled bucket heater with a 79 gph pump in a 9 quart polycarb food pan) and I noticed that the temperature seems a lot less stable than the other probe.

With the waterproof probe, the temperature would hold pretty steadily at, say, 55C, and every other minute or so it might drop to 54.9 for a moment before settling again. The new probe seems to vary every 10 seconds or so, but pretty much always within +/- .2C of the setpoint. I've heard some people complaining of temperature stability problems with the steel shielded probes and having to connect one of the lead wires to the sheath, but I haven't seen any clarification of how big the "instability" is, so I'm not sure if mine is behaving unusually or if the temperature response is more sensitive because the metal is in direct contact with the water as opposed to being in the waterproof plastic.

Any thoughts?

[sreeb]

Good evening all.

I had a quick question for those of us with DIY sous vide setups (or anyone with any particular expertise).

I just got this probe in the mail today:

http://www.virtualvillage.com/thermocouple-temperature-probe-pt100-003820-034.html

to replace this one:

http://www.amazon.com/Waterproof-PT100-Thermocouple-Temperature-Controller/dp/B0052IGFZ4/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1317699329&sr=8-2

mostly due to the higher operating temperature, and the 2 meter probe is somewhat unwieldy.

I installed the new probe and started up my setup (a PID controlled bucket heater with a 79 gph pump in a 9 quart polycarb food pan) and I noticed that the temperature seems a lot less stable than the other probe.

With the waterproof probe, the temperature would hold pretty steadily at, say, 55C, and every other minute or so it might drop to 54.9 for a moment before settling again. The new probe seems to vary every 10 seconds or so, but pretty much always within +/- .2C of the setpoint. I've heard some people complaining of temperature stability problems with the steel shielded probes and having to connect one of the lead wires to the sheath, but I haven't seen any clarification of how big the "instability" is, so I'm not sure if mine is behaving unusually or if the temperature response is more sensitive because the metal is in direct contact with the water as opposed to being in the waterproof plastic.

Any thoughts?

I think your new probe is more responsive. The plastic covered one is also shielded inside. I don't think it would be a problem to shorten it.

[PedroG]

Good evening all.

I had a quick question for those of us with DIY sous vide setups (or anyone with any particular expertise).

I just got this probe in the mail today:

http://www.virtualvillage.com/thermocouple-temperature-probe-pt100-003820-034.html

to replace this one:

http://www.amazon.com/Waterproof-PT100-Thermocouple-Temperature-Controller/dp/B0052IGFZ4/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1317699329&sr=8-2

mostly due to the higher operating temperature, and the 2 meter probe is somewhat unwieldy.

I installed the new probe and started up my setup (a PID controlled bucket heater with a 79 gph pump in a 9 quart polycarb food pan) and I noticed that the temperature seems a lot less stable than the other probe.

With the waterproof probe, the temperature would hold pretty steadily at, say, 55C, and every other minute or so it might drop to 54.9 for a moment before settling again. The new probe seems to vary every 10 seconds or so, but pretty much always within +/- .2C of the setpoint. I've heard some people complaining of temperature stability problems with the steel shielded probes and having to connect one of the lead wires to the sheath, but I haven't seen any clarification of how big the "instability" is, so I'm not sure if mine is behaving unusually or if the temperature response is more sensitive because the metal is in direct contact with the water as opposed to being in the waterproof plastic.

Any thoughts?

I think your new probe is more responsive. The plastic covered one is also shielded inside. I don't think it would be a problem to shorten it.

Instead of guessing you might determine the thermal time constants of your probes like this:

Determining thermal time constants of temperature sensors can be done by changing ambient temperature from e.g. 55^oC (PID-controlled water bath) to 0^oC (ice water stirred with a milk frother).

The thermal time constant (tau) is the time to change by 63.2% (T) of the temperature difference:

T = 0.632 * T2 + 0.368 * T1 (20.24^oC in the above example)

So just note starting time at 55^oC and look for the time when 20.24^oC is reached, the difference is your thermal time constant.

Inappropriate relation of thermal time constant and cycle time of the PID-controller may lead to aliasing.

Looking forward to your results (they may be counter-intuitive).

[mmille24]

Can anyone recommend a fine tip probe to stick through the bag and into the protein/veg/ect?

[Justin Uy]

Determining thermal time constants of temperature sensors can be done by changing ambient temperature from e.g. 55^oC (PID-controlled water bath) to 0^oC (ice water stirred with a milk frother).

The thermal time constant (tau) is the time to change by 63.2% (T) of the temperature difference:

T = 0.632 * T2 + 0.368 * T1 (20.24^oC in the above example)

So just note starting time at 55^oC and look for the time when 20.24^oC is reached, the difference is your thermal time constant.

Inappropriate relation of thermal time constant and cycle time of the PID-controller may lead to aliasing.

Looking forward to your results (they may be counter-intuitive).

Thanks PedroG! I'll definitely give that a try. The science of cooking and control systems have always been major interests for me. I'm probably going to give that a try over the weekend when I get some free time.

I actually re-ran my autotune, and it seems to be holding with much more stability. The P value held constant, but the I and D about doubled compared to the waterproofed probe.

In the meantime, here's my latest SV attempt. A pork tenderloin brined in a 6% salt solution, coated with Dijon, SV for 2.5 hrs at 60C and seared off.

The pork was perfectly tender and juicy, but unfortunately I could barely taste the mustard after the sear, and while the brine salted it to my taste, not a lot of other flavor penetrated down into the meat. Any advice on how to treat this cut? From what I've been reading it seems like a lot of people have trouble bringing good flavor to pork tenderloin.

Edited October 6, 2011 by Justin Uy (log)

[PedroG]

Justin,

for how long did you marinate?

[mis]

Hey guys,

Today, I placed my SWID immersion circulator in a water bath and set it to the temperature I desired. It started heating up for about 2-3 minutes before I heard it shut down (the noise the pump was making just went silent), I checked on it, and the SWID was turned off. I tried switching it off and on again, to no avail. I topped up the level of water and tried switching power cables, power outlets, nothing seemed to work. (Additional info: The temperature set was 57.5C, so the water bath was not overheating the SWID)

Does anyone know what the problem might be? I tried emailing Addelice but they havent responded yet. Starting to freak out a little

[Justin Uy]

Justin,

for how long did you marinate?

I went with 8 hours in the brine, then coated lightly with the dijon, bagged, vac'd and in the fridge for 24 hours. Dropped the bag directly in the bath from there.

Maybe a liquid marinade next time?

Edited October 6, 2011 by Justin Uy (log)

[paulpegg]

Hey guys,

Today, I placed my SWID immersion circulator in a water bath and set it to the temperature I desired. It started heating up for about 2-3 minutes before I heard it shut down (the noise the pump was making just went silent), I checked on it, and the SWID was turned off. I tried switching it off and on again, to no avail. I topped up the level of water and tried switching power cables, power outlets, nothing seemed to work. (Additional info: The temperature set was 57.5C, so the water bath was not overheating the SWID)

Does anyone know what the problem might be? I tried emailing Addelice but they havent responded yet. Starting to freak out a little

I don't have one of these but either there is a blown fuse inside (not sure if it has one, check your manual) or the float switch is either stuck in the low water position or has failed. There could be other reasons but these seem to be the first place to look.

[rotuts]

SV "stew" ??

Heston blumenthal probably knows a bit about SV.

in his british cooking shows, he had a series on improving food in ... like a childrens hospital, an airline, and on HMS Turbulent, a British submarine.

as in all his shows he lets you wait until the end for success: Stew. on that sub he showed the raw/refirg ingredients for his stew, and then the bags that had been SV'd his stew won all aboard. it could be cooked ashore frozen etcetc.

but it was a collection of components which one then heated up either in the same bags or all together it did not say. Meat, carrots, potatoes, peas.

I havent seen this idea mentioned anywhere, but folks here must have.

im hoping to move from my Meat Studies this fall to stuff like 'stew'

has anyone made the components (seasoned I bet) separately then added all together at the end?

i can see the potential advantage here that each component cooks at its ideal temp etc.

your thoughts?

[slkinsey]

Hey guys,

Today, I placed my SWID immersion circulator in a water bath and set it to the temperature I desired. It started heating up for about 2-3 minutes before I heard it shut down (the noise the pump was making just went silent), I checked on it, and the SWID was turned off. I tried switching it off and on again, to no avail. I topped up the level of water and tried switching power cables, power outlets, nothing seemed to work. (Additional info: The temperature set was 57.5C, so the water bath was not overheating the SWID)

Does anyone know what the problem might be? I tried emailing Addelice but they havent responded yet. Starting to freak out a little

Most circulators have a component where you set a temperature and it shuts down if the temperature gets any higher than that. What you describe can often happen if the temperature setting of the safety cut-off is close to or below the temperature at which you would like to cook.

[PedroG]

Continued from the topic Technological Cooking Is it everything it's supposed to be?

I think sous vide cooks are (or should be) the kind of people not just asking for the "how to" (recipes), but for the "why", i.e. curious cooks reading books of Harold McGee, Nathan Myhrvold, and the like. This knowledge can significantly help cooking better with traditional methods as well, e.g. knowing the temperature ranges and actions of the tenderizing enzymes calpaines, cathepsines and collagenases, which makes us understand Harold McGee's "Guidelines for Succulent Braises and Stews" which I cited in the old sous vide topic. My personal experience with tough meat 48h/55^oC sous vide is that some thick tendons may escape enzymatic denaturation, as collagenase sits in the sarcoplasm (the cytoplasm of muscle cells) and has a long way to travel into thick tendons. A workaround might be cooking below 60^oC until the thin collagen sheaths (endomysium and perimysium) surrounding the muscle fibers have been enzymatically hydrolysed by collagenases, thus avoiding contraction of intact collagen sheaths at temperatures above 60^oC, squeezing juices out of the muscle cells. Subsequent heating to temperatures between 75^oC and 80^oC will hydrolyse thick tendons and fasciae thermally.

Um, Pedro, could you say that in English? Seriously, an example with times and temps to try would be great!

If I may.

PedroG is saying that cooking could potentially be done in two separate stages. The first burst would be below 60C to ensure that everything except tough collagens and fibrous tissues are cooked as we have become accustomed to with sous vide such that they are tender and their juices are retained. He is then proposing a second cooking at a higher temperature to deal with the other more gristly bits. Presumably the earlier cooking will stop the more temperature sensitive pieces from shedding much of their juices as they would if you put them immediately into the higher temperature water bath.

Look forward to hearing the results of your experiments on this PedroG.

OK, an idea for starting experiments would be:

Boneless short ribs, bag and place in cold water bath, set temperature to 59^oC (ideally, the temperature rise from ambient to 59^oC would be about 4 hours), after 12 hours set temperature to 75^oC, 3 hours later sear and serve.

To proceed more scientifically, cook four equal cuts at 59^oC for 6 / 12 / 24 / 48 hours and compare tenderness of meat (disregarding parts with thick connective tissue). With the best choice of first stage of cooking, compare 1 / 2 / 3 / 4 hours of second stage cooking at 75^oC comparing tenderness of connective tissue and juiciness.

[mgaretz]

Thanks Peter. Would there be a problem extending the time of the second step? I'm just thinking about the practical side of dinner on a work day. For example, one could do the first step overnight, then go to the next step in the morning and have ribs ready to sear when you get home. That would make the second step 9 hours or so.