Sous Vide: Recipes, Techniques & Equipment (Part 8)

[ojisan]

What does one do with the accumulated juices from, say, a steak? Are they usable as a sauce, au jus etc.?

[PedroG]

What does one do with the accumulated juices from, say, a steak? Are they usable as a sauce, au jus etc.?

See some earlier posts:

nickrey post 2419 (extracting osmazome)

and posts 3198 to 3204 (usage of the gravy from LTLT cooking)

and one of my favorite recipes (Brisket Stroganoff).

[ScottyBoy]

Would you say moisture retention is enhanced buy cooking SV then shocking just like cooling braised meats in their cooking liquid is key?

[ojisan]

Thanks Pete - I was wondering about all the coagulated meat proteins. Confirms my thoughts.

[nickrey]

Addendum to what Pedro posted:

I used to boil the juices to coagulate the proteins and then used the strained liquid (osmazome) for sauce making.

Looking more carefully at the proteins that were coagulated, they seemed to be the residue that the meat would put out whilst frying that then cooked onto the bottom of the pan and would later be deglazed to make a sauce.

Using this reasoning, I now heat the liquid and strain off the osmazome, which I add later in the sauce making process.

I then cook the remaining residue at a sufficient temperature for it to be undergo a Maillard reaction and give the approximation of the bits that stick to the bottom of the pan when you fry meat. I then deglaze with an appropriate liquid (typically red wine, which I then reduce) and proceed to make the sauce, adding an amount of the osmazome as one of the components (as well as chicken stock, veal demi glace and an acid just before serving).

Once the sauce is cooked down to a suitable thickness or thickened with a starch such a potato starch (this call depends on the flavour of the sauce and the degree to which it will cope with being further concentrated), I strain it and serve it over the meat.

The flavour of this sauce more closely represents a traditional sauce due to incorporation of the meaty, maillardized flavours.

Edited November 13, 2010 by nickrey (log)

[Montreal]

Another puzzle.

So far all my test were on red meat. I tried some scallops at 49 Celcius... They were awfull.

Any recommendation

Tks

[nickrey]

Scallops cook so quickly and the searing gives such a nice caramelization I don't think I'd even want to sous vide them.

[e_monster]

Scallops cook so quickly and the searing gives such a nice caramelization I don't think I'd even want to sous vide them.

Agreed.

[Montreal]

Yup... Actually I think so too. I also did some Red Deer 1 cm thick loin and they were so awsome seared that I dont think that it was worth it to sous vide.

Thaks for the reply

[MartinH]

I've been experimenting with SV custards of various kinds, that is egg-thickened creams such as crème brûlée, crème anglaise, cheesecake, pumpkin pie, and even eggnog.

A few things I've learned:

SV is an excellent method for cooking custards. While custards thicken when the egg proteins in the mix are heated, they curdle when the egg protein is overheated. Traditional methods to prevent curdling include preheating the milk, stirring, adding flour, or placing ramekins in a waterbath in the oven. But SV is much more accurate, more dependable, and far easier.

Preparing the mix couldn't be simpler. Its just a matter of combining the basic ingredients: egg, liquid, sugar, salt, and flavoring. The liquid can be milk, cream, coconut milk, cream cheese (for a chesecake) or variations and combinations thereof.

Ratios vary. An eggnog would be about 1 egg to 1 pint of liquid. A soft custard (English-style custard or crème anglaise) would have about 1 egg to 1 cup of liquid. Firmer custards would have a greater proportion of eggs. Either whole eggs or yolks can be used. Yolks add a little more color and richness, but do not have greater thickening capacity.

Some flavorings appear to work better than others in SV conditions. Vanilla is superb. But strong flavors such as citrus zest (often used in cheesecake recipes) or pungent spices (as in pumpkin pie filling) can be too harsh. Strong flavorings can be toned down by precooking, then cooling and adding to the custard mix.

A temp of ~83C/181F does the trick. Interestingly, this is higher than the ~64C/147F at which egg yolks set; diluted eggs in need a higher temp for their proteins to coagulate.

SV cheesecake or pumpkin pie clearly depart most from the traditional method, since the crust and the filling must be cooked separately. But the traditional method often produces a dry, cracked, hard product. SV cheesecake or pumpkin pie is much more creamy, soft, and delicate. A modernistic cheesecake sprinkled with cookie crumbs, or a new pumpkin pie garnished with a wedge of pastry can be fun.

Since vacuum sealers do not work well with liquids, custards can be cooked in ziploc bags or in small mason jars.

I'd be interested in hearing what anyone else has discovered in this area.

[ermintrude]

Doing them Sous Vide will work but seems over kill when tey can be done just as well on a hob, with good control and stirring. Or use a thermomix or the new kenwood if you want to do custards etc, with no attention they are perfect for that.

[Chris Birkett]

I'm planning to order one of the SousVide Supreme units in the next couple days. They have a special right now where you get their vacuum sealer with the SVS for only $20 extra. I'm kind of concerned about how basic this model is, missing features like pulsed vacuuming or multiple speeds. I recall reading earlier in the thread that you really want a fully-featured sealer for sous vide.

Should I even be considering the vac sealer they carry, cheap or not? The alternative would probably be something like the Foodsaver V2490, which is also fairly cheap but more fully-featured.

[Chris Amirault]

Hi Chris! I have to say that I've been happy with my FoodSaver (click here for information) and think that there's no need for a home user to upgrade to anything much more than that.

MartinH, thanks for that write-up. It's extremely useful.

What Nick wrote above is my procedure for those juices when I'm feeling virtuous. More often than not, however, my "sauce" isn't classical French but is a quick rustic one with sautéed onions or tomato sauce. So I just fine strain the contents of the bag, push the stuff in the strainer through the mesh, and add the stuff all at once into whatever sauce base I'm making. I'll also add that LTLT-cooked proteins with a lot of collagen in them -- skin, bones, tendons -- have thickening properties that mean that you can skip the cornstarch etc.

[gfweb]

I'm planning to order one of the SousVide Supreme units in the next couple days. They have a special right now where you get their vacuum sealer with the SVS for only $20 extra. I'm kind of concerned about how basic this model is, missing features like pulsed vacuuming or multiple speeds. I recall reading earlier in the thread that you really want a fully-featured sealer for sous vide.

Should I even be considering the vac sealer they carry, cheap or not? The alternative would probably be something like the Foodsaver V2490, which is also fairly cheap but more fully-featured.

I have a SVS and have quit on using a vacuum sealer for routine stuff. Careful expulsion of air from a normal zip lock bag (either by rolling or immersing in water and sealing the zip lock) has worked fine.

[Chris Amirault]

Dave Arnold over at CookingIssues.com likes the ziploks too.

[MartinH]

Doing them Sous Vide will work but seems over kill when tey can be done just as well on a hob, with good control and stirring. Or use a thermomix or the new kenwood if you want to do custards etc, with no attention they are perfect for that.

Far from being overkill, I find it easier to do a custard (defined broadly) by the SV method rather than in the traditional ways on the stove top or in the oven. Wouldn't it be overkill to purchase a thermomix or a new kenwood for this when a SV set up does the job just fine?

May I add that SV more generally is not unnecessary, not overkill, not more than is needed to do the job for the simple reason that it is often the best way to do the job.

[therippa]

Doing them Sous Vide will work but seems over kill when tey can be done just as well on a hob, with good control and stirring. Or use a thermomix or the new kenwood if you want to do custards etc, with no attention they are perfect for that.

Far from being overkill, I find it easier to do a custard (defined broadly) by the SV method rather than in the traditional ways on the stove top or in the oven. Wouldn't it be overkill to purchase a thermomix or a new kenwood for this when a SV set up does the job just fine?

May I add that SV more generally is not unnecessary, not overkill, not more than is needed to do the job for the simple reason that it is often the best way to do the job.

I sv'd custard once for ice cream, and it was the best batch of ice cream I've ever made. Only complaint is how the bag fills with air unless you have a chamber vacuum...what would be handy are bags with one way valves so the air can escape, but I think that'd be overkill

[FoodMan]

Doing them Sous Vide will work but seems over kill when tey can be done just as well on a hob, with good control and stirring. Or use a thermomix or the new kenwood if you want to do custards etc, with no attention they are perfect for that.

Far from being overkill, I find it easier to do a custard (defined broadly) by the SV method rather than in the traditional ways on the stove top or in the oven. Wouldn't it be overkill to purchase a thermomix or a new kenwood for this when a SV set up does the job just fine?

May I add that SV more generally is not unnecessary, not overkill, not more than is needed to do the job for the simple reason that it is often the best way to do the job.

I sv'd custard once for ice cream, and it was the best batch of ice cream I've ever made. Only complaint is how the bag fills with air unless you have a chamber vacuum...what would be handy are bags with one way valves so the air can escape, but I think that'd be overkill

Yeap. Certainly not overkill! I have not made ice cream custard base on the stove top in a long time. SV is just ideal. I use the Pulse feature to get more or less a perfect air-free seal using the FoodSaver and I cook at about 82 C per the instructions in Under Pressure. I think my favorite part, in addition to how simple the whole thing is, is that the sealed bag is not pasteurized and can rest in the fridge for quiet some time until I am ready to churn.

[FoodMan]

I am looking to cook some quinces and am wondering what the consensus for timing would be. I think about 85C is fine for temp, but quince is hard and am not sure if I should go for a couple of hours or more. Ideas?

[Chris Birkett]

Hi Chris! I have to say that I've been happy with my FoodSaver (click here for information) and think that there's no need for a home user to upgrade to anything much more than that.

I'm wondering more specifically whether the SVS vac sealer is so basic that it's not worth considering, even cheaply, instead of a basic Foodsaver unit that's more expensive. I will definitely be trying out the Ziploc bag technique, but I don't want to pay extra for a vac sealer that's a waste of money, and I have to decide up front since I live in Canada (shipping is $80 per order). It seems like a lot of people use the pulse feature on their Foodsavers, which the SVS model doesn't have. I am happy to spend a bit extra on a Foodsaver if it's more useful for sous vide.

[FoodMan]

Hi Chris! I have to say that I've been happy with my FoodSaver (click here for information) and think that there's no need for a home user to upgrade to anything much more than that.

I'm wondering more specifically whether the SVS vac sealer is so basic that it's not worth considering, even cheaply, instead of a basic Foodsaver unit that's more expensive. I will definitely be trying out the Ziploc bag technique, but I don't want to pay extra for a vac sealer that's a waste of money, and I have to decide up front since I live in Canada (shipping is $80 per order). It seems like a lot of people use the pulse feature on their Foodsavers, which the SVS model doesn't have. I am happy to spend a bit extra on a Foodsaver if it's more useful for sous vide.

My suggestion is to skip theirs and either just use Ziploc bags or spend the extra cash on a better FoodSaver with Pulse. I use that Pulse feature 99% of the time honestly because even "dry" items will still leach liquid once you push that "Vaccum" button.

[therippa]

Doing them Sous Vide will work but seems over kill when tey can be done just as well on a hob, with good control and stirring. Or use a thermomix or the new kenwood if you want to do custards etc, with no attention they are perfect for that.

Far from being overkill, I find it easier to do a custard (defined broadly) by the SV method rather than in the traditional ways on the stove top or in the oven. Wouldn't it be overkill to purchase a thermomix or a new kenwood for this when a SV set up does the job just fine?

May I add that SV more generally is not unnecessary, not overkill, not more than is needed to do the job for the simple reason that it is often the best way to do the job.

I sv'd custard once for ice cream, and it was the best batch of ice cream I've ever made. Only complaint is how the bag fills with air unless you have a chamber vacuum...what would be handy are bags with one way valves so the air can escape, but I think that'd be overkill

Yeap. Certainly not overkill! I have not made ice cream custard base on the stove top in a long time. SV is just ideal. I use the Pulse feature to get more or less a perfect air-free seal using the FoodSaver and I cook at about 82 C per the instructions in Under Pressure. I think my favorite part, in addition to how simple the whole thing is, is that the sealed bag is not pasteurized and can rest in the fridge for quiet some time until I am ready to churn.

I was talking more about how the bag fills with air while you SV it...I released it twice, was afraid it wouldn't cook evenly if I didn't since it displaced so much space.

[alanjesq]

Does Hollendaise sauce = custard?? Anyone tried to make SV???

[Paul McMichael]

Doing them Sous Vide will work but seems over kill when tey can be done just as well on a hob, with good control and stirring. Or use a thermomix or the new kenwood if you want to do custards etc, with no attention they are perfect for that.

Far from being overkill, I find it easier to do a custard (defined broadly) by the SV method rather than in the traditional ways on the stove top or in the oven. Wouldn't it be overkill to purchase a thermomix or a new kenwood for this when a SV set up does the job just fine?

May I add that SV more generally is not unnecessary, not overkill, not more than is needed to do the job for the simple reason that it is often the best way to do the job.

I sv'd custard once for ice cream, and it was the best batch of ice cream I've ever made. Only complaint is how the bag fills with air unless you have a chamber vacuum...what would be handy are bags with one way valves so the air can escape, but I think that'd be overkill

Yeap. Certainly not overkill! I have not made ice cream custard base on the stove top in a long time. SV is just ideal. I use the Pulse feature to get more or less a perfect air-free seal using the FoodSaver and I cook at about 82 C per the instructions in Under Pressure. I think my favorite part, in addition to how simple the whole thing is, is that the sealed bag is not pasteurized and can rest in the fridge for quiet some time until I am ready to churn.

I was talking more about how the bag fills with air while you SV it...I released it twice, was afraid it wouldn't cook evenly if I didn't since it displaced so much space.

I have been using the SV water bath as a heat source for ice cream base for the last few months - works great. I messed with bags just once. I now use a quart jar with a plastic storage cap. Simple and easy. After the custard thickens (about an hour) the jar can go into an ice bath if I am in a hurry or just into the fridge to churn the next day.

[MartinH]

Does Hollendaise sauce = custard?? Anyone tried to make SV???

A "quasi-custard" perhaps? It is similar to a custard being egg-thickened, but water-based rather than milk-based. I haven't tried it SV, but I can think of two different ways to do it. Either cook the egg+liquid then whisk in the butter; or, slightly warm the egg+liquid enough to blend in the butter and then cook. No idea if either works.