I'm opening a restaurant...Oh S&%T!

[gfron1]

That loin might be very useful since she has a budget of $350 for 50 people. Its a drop and run job, but eeks, that's pushing my limits. I'll definitely find a rice dish for her.

[Tri2Cook]

she has a budget of $350 for 50 people.

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Wow. That's below soup and sandwich budget. Even for drop and run. Be careful what you provide for low budget jobs, even if you're just thinking of it as "getting your name out there". Don't become known as "the cheap catering place". Once you're that place it's very hard to not be that place. Giving more for the money and giving more than the money are not the same thing. When you give them more than budget warrants just to get their attention they don't generally come back the next time saying "that was really nice of you to give us a deal that other time but we understand it can't always be that way". They say "what the hell, you only charged us $x.xx last time for this same menu".

I feel like I give nothing but warnings is this thread and it probably sounds like I think it's a crappy business but that's not true. I enjoy it. I just had to learn a few things the hard way. Just tell me to shut up if it becomes annoying. I can take it. Glad to hear the tasting went well, everything looks great.

[gfron1]

I forgot to mention - she doesn't want desserts. Two jobs, no desserts...I quit!

[MikeHartnett]

A) Who gets something catered and doesn't want desserts?

B) It really sucks that you're not able to get your desserts out there.

[Sugarella]

.... she has a budget of $350 for 50 people. 

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Is that $7 per person supposed to include your profit and your travel expenses and/or rentals and special purchases like cutlery/plates/napkins too?

I don't mean to pee in your cheerios but I think it's time you do some serious number crunching......

.....and I agree with everything Tri2cook said.... the only advertising you'll be doing at a wedding is to the guests that are there, and they'll just expect the same pricing if they ever come to you. If you work for free, they'll just expect you to continue to do so. Then all you'll have is customers lined up who want to underpay you. Or worse, make you actually LOSE money. Don't feel like you're obligated to take a job because if you can't make a buck, there's no sense putting your name out there. I do wedding cakes.... believe me, I know these things.

Boy do I EVER know these things.

[boagman]

That loin might be very useful since she has a budget of $350 for 50 people.  Its a drop and run job, but eeks, that's pushing my limits.  I'll definitely find a rice dish for her.

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By "a rice dish", I certainly hope you mean "mass-produced Rice-A-Roni".

Ron, really: $350 for 50 stinking people? $7 a head? And you're thinking of *pork loin*? I'm with the others here in this thread...you just simply *cannot* do this job at this price. If they want catering, they want catering...and catering costs money. Real money, not the Monopoly kind. Honest, Ron: to my knowledge, a place like Boston Market won't do this kind of pricing/profit margin. If you want to put on a display of your talents, you MUST NOT accept this kind of work. You'll be digging yourself a major-league hole, and that's not the way to start out.

If I was the woman in question, and I had a $350 budget, I wouldn't even be *considering* catering...I'd just be buying deli meats, bread, condiments, drinks, and cookies, and be done with it. That's not a budget...that's an insult.

I fully understand that you want to impress folks. For that, you should be congratulated, and admired. Impress them with the quality of your fare, your ability to be worked with, your demeanor, your desserts...but do *not* impress them as being able to feed 50 people for $350.

There are worse things than turning down work. Some things just aren't worth your time, money, and effort, and this *definitely* qualifies.

To quote Nancy Reagan, "Just say 'No.'"

[gfron1]

So...if I'm hearing you guys correctly, this sounds like a great opportunity for me...to define boundaries and my business image

I'm going to have a heart to heart with her tomorrow. Its a small town and I have no need to embarrass her, but I agree that doing this would not be in my best interest.

In other news, I worked up my 150 job proposal. Thanks to the internet for some great contract samples. I've faxed if off with the total costs including the 18%, tax, staff wages, etc...a very healthy proposal. We'll see if they liked those biscuits as much as I think they did.

[pastrygirl]

Just a comment on the pickle debate: Tartine Bakery in San Francisco gives a really delicious spicy pickled carrot with their sandwiches. I'm sure they are made in-house with little effort, and they are a nice, unique alternative to the traditional pickle. Plus, carrots are pretty cheap, so it would add only a few cents to the plate. New Mexico is far enough away that you could copy it and nobody would know!

[CaliPoutine]

I also think it's worth considering some sort of 'signature' side item.

I agree. I haven't come up with a universal item that could go with a sandwich as easily as a salad or soup. For example, you mention a bread - I don't think I would want a slice of bread served in addition to my sandwich. I was thinking fancy cracker, but maybe its more of a salad - potato, pasta, fruit...whatever, but seasoned to be my style.

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I always like some chips with my sandwich!! In fact, whenever I cater a lunch that includes sandwiches, I always include chips.

[RAHiggins1]

she has a budget of $350 for 50 people.

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Wow. That's below soup and sandwich budget. Even for drop and run. Be careful what you provide for low budget jobs, even if you're just thinking of it as "getting your name out there". Don't become known as "the cheap catering place". Once you're that place it's very hard to not be that place. Giving more for the money and giving more than the money are not the same thing. When you give them more than budget warrants just to get their attention they don't generally come back the next time saying "that was really nice of you to give us a deal that other time but we understand it can't always be that way". They say "what the hell, you only charged us $x.xx last time for this same menu".

I feel like I give nothing but warnings is this thread and it probably sounds like I think it's a crappy business but that's not true. I enjoy it. I just had to learn a few things the hard way. Just tell me to shut up if it becomes annoying. I can take it. Glad to hear the tasting went well, everything looks great.

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As a third party I've never read anyrthing negative into your entirely constructive suggestions.

[Kim Shook]

One of my favorite things about the online life is the ability to live so many different vicarious lives. One day, I can be a world traveler, tagging along on Tracey's trip to Munich, enjoying Klary's sunshine filled home in Amsterdam, and seeing all the different places that our bloggers hail from. Another day, I can be a food professional - writing articles with Fat Guy, managing a catering business or restaurant with one of the many accomplished members here. I even try to imagine that one day I might grow up to be a writer like Rachel or Maggie . What I learn is not only how these things are done, but how awesome are the talents of eGulleteers. Thanks so much for taking us along on this ride of yours, Rob. I am having the time of my life and, as with all of the blogs and restaurant reviews and travelogues that I read, I only regret that I don't have the ability to travel as much as I'd like - I would be on the next flight to NM to enjoy the fruits of your labors first hand! And you would definitely be my caterer !

I can't give any advice from a professional point of view, but I love the idea of fresh marinated baby vegetables as a side - not a heavy marinade like those jarred artichoke hearts, but a light lemony one. And the wedding food?

[gfron1]

Thanks again to everyone for the kinds words, encouragement, ideas and warnings. And certainly no need to apologize for sharing what you've learned the hard way.

I woke up this morning feeling better about saying no to the $350 job. What eased my mind is the fact that I have a great caterer to suggest to her. Its a local church that focuses on BBQ, and they do a great job with it. So, if they can just jerk it up, then it should be a good fit.

My mind is shifting to the fact that I take over the kitchen on Monday and I need to think like the owner now - what to order, printing menus, can I handle the Friday rush on my own?! I need to meet with my current and potential vendors very, very quickly and get that set. I'm also watching as Chef and Martyn deplete my investment - obviously they're not replacing the supplies that they are using.

I also was able to get into the kitchen for my morning routine again. Cranked out the tiramisu, got my 3-day NYT/Paul Raphael chocolate chip cookies made and chilling. I've revived my sourdough starter yesterday morning so I can start again on baking tomorrow. On that front this clam is happy!

[ludja]

Congrats and good luck on your new venture, gfron1!

I couldn't tell exactly from comments earlier in the thread, but are you still planning on keeping your gourmet food and cheese shop open in Silver City?

Edited July 15, 2008 by ludja (log)

[gfron1]

Absolutely. This is all part of our grand scheme to diversify revenue streams, yet have them all work to benefit the others. Our little fifedome includes the gourmet/international grocery, the out of control cheese club, cooking school (we call it the Home Cooks Academy), and now cafe and catering. The store supplies probably 30% of the products for the cafe and catering, and 100% of the cheese for the club. Likewise, the cheese club builds sales for the store with cheese fanatics. The classes build sales for the store by focusing on our products. And the cafe and catering explicitly promote the products used as available at the store. Its a very chaotic, yet neat and tidy package.

[MikeHartnett]

Cranked out the tiramisu, got my 3-day NYT/Paul Raphael chocolate chip cookies made and chilling. 

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The cookies are delicious. I'm not much of a baker (yet), so I had some textural issues with them, but flavorwise, they're great.

[gfron1]

I add a few cacoa nibs, and I also bake straight from the freezer. The NYT update to the recipe that I'm doing now is the 3 day aging process in the cooler. So for me its: Make dough, chill, form into squashed balls, chill for 3 days, freeze overnight, bake. We'll see if the 3 days are worth the effort.

[CaliPoutine]

Just another note about sandwich size.

Zingerman's sandwiches come in two sizes. Nosher and Fresser. I just love those yiddish words.

[gfron1]

Two things coming up today. Chef and I are talking through the close out of her and start up of me - financials. I keep meticulous books - not perfect, but very organized on a spreadsheet, correlated with my register/POS. She keeps a paper booklet with chicken scratch. Her numbers have never matched mine, but they've always been close. Today we were talking about how the food inventory was not part of the buy-out. I missed that. Shit! So I need to be prepared for a couple hundred in food on Monday. On the other hand, her in-store account owes me about $350 and then we add on the credit card fees, utilities, and her contract payment. The good news is I think I will only owe her $100 or so to close out her account. That would be great. Then all monies stay with me and my vendors from here on out.

The other issue is that her current distributor is getting less reliable with their quality. Today they delivered at 12:15...yeah, drop off boxes during lunch service, that's a good idea! The driver dropped a box of apples, delivered six cases of cucumbers when she only ordered one, prices on apples doubled, same with mozz. She's not happy with them obviously. I'm already exploring my options, but from previous comments here and other vendors in town, this is going to be a never ending issue. I think I know how to be mean if I need to be, I can definitely pull of professional and firm. We'll see which strategy sticks.

[RAHiggins1]

Two things coming up today.  Chef and I are talking through the close out of her and start up of me - financials.  I keep meticulous books - not perfect, but very organized on a spreadsheet, correlated with my register/POS.  She keeps a paper booklet with chicken scratch.  Her numbers have never matched mine, but they've always been close.  Today we were talking about how the food inventory was not part of the buy-out.  I missed that.  Shit!  So I need to be prepared for a couple hundred in food on Monday.  On the other hand, her in-store account owes me about $350 and then we add on the credit card fees, utilities, and her contract payment.  The good news is I think I will only owe her $100 or so to close out her account.  That would be great.  Then all monies stay with me and my vendors from here on out.

The other issue is that her current distributor is getting less reliable with their quality.  Today they delivered at 12:15...yeah, drop off boxes during lunch service, that's a good idea!  The driver dropped a box of apples, delivered six cases of cucumbers when she only ordered one, prices on apples doubled, same with mozz.  She's not happy with them obviously.  I'm already exploring my options, but from previous comments here and other vendors in town, this is going to be a never ending issue.  I think I know how to be mean if I need to be, I can definitely pull of professional and firm.  We'll see which strategy sticks.

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Toss in some snark for good measure.

[heidih]

Are you running on sheer adrenaline?!? Sounds like you are keeping all your plates spinning pretty well. Keep posting!

[JohnnyH]

Two things coming up today.  Chef and I are talking through the close out of her and start up of me - financials.  I keep meticulous books - not perfect, but very organized on a spreadsheet, correlated with my register/POS.  She keeps a paper booklet with chicken scratch.  Her numbers have never matched mine, but they've always been close.  Today we were talking about how the food inventory was not part of the buy-out.  I missed that.  Shit!  So I need to be prepared for a couple hundred in food on Monday.  On the other hand, her in-store account owes me about $350 and then we add on the credit card fees, utilities, and her contract payment.  The good news is I think I will only owe her $100 or so to close out her account.  That would be great.  Then all monies stay with me and my vendors from here on out.

The other issue is that her current distributor is getting less reliable with their quality.  Today they delivered at 12:15...yeah, drop off boxes during lunch service, that's a good idea!  The driver dropped a box of apples, delivered six cases of cucumbers when she only ordered one, prices on apples doubled, same with mozz.  She's not happy with them obviously.  I'm already exploring my options, but from previous comments here and other vendors in town, this is going to be a never ending issue.  I think I know how to be mean if I need to be, I can definitely pull of professional and firm.  We'll see which strategy sticks.

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Have you had a lawyer look at any of the contracts passing between you? If not, I highly recommend that you do -- the inventory issue is just one example why.

Edited July 15, 2008 by JohnnyH (log)

[gfron1]

A couple of thoughts on that. I hear ya and agree with ya, but ultimately we're not talking about a lot. Just this afternoon I'm finding things that are not in the kitchen anymore. That's fine, I'm going to call her on it and get the things back. I"m sure they were just "misplaced" in cleaning.

But the other thing is that we're in a small town and relationships and reputations mean a lot. I'll keep a mental tab on what's missing, and what doesn't come back, and if it becomes excessive, then we'll need to revisit the agreement. Really there are only two things that she has that I can't easily replace - a hotel pan warmer (you know the 3 pans that sit in water) and her mixer - which I just spent a bunch to fix.

So, I'll play it cool for now and by Sunday at midnight its all over. But I do appreciate the suggestion.

[gfron1]

I feel like I should say a bit more about the small town thing. I often see it used as an excuse to not do things the "right way." Sometimes not doing things the right way is the right way. This was part of what was going on with me and the $350 cater job. It was a woman I knew. And I knew that I would see her regularly. And I knew that she was part of a church that wasn't the greatest supporter of our business, and this was a chance to "get in," or at least not get further out. So instead of a simple "no" I felt like I had to massage it quite a bit.

I did call her this afternoon, and my line was about how she'll get more bang for her buck with this other caterer, and I left it that if they can't help her that she should come back and we'll re-look at the menu. I don't have the luxury of burning bridges whether I'm in the right or wrong. There are always strategies to keep things positive. The challenge is being mindful of those strategies and the situation.

So with Chef, we have had a good relationship with her, and I'm going to do everything I can to make sure we do still on Monday. It's also part of our business mission statement to "bring joy," and that's hard to do when you're contacting lawyers and yelling at vendors... I'll have to work on that vendor thing

[Tri2Cook]

I did call her this afternoon, and my line was about how she'll get more bang for her buck with this other caterer, and I left it that if they can't help her that she should come back and we'll re-look at the menu.  I don't have the luxury of burning bridges whether I'm in the right or wrong.  There are always strategies to keep things positive.  The challenge is being mindful of those strategies and the situation.

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I wasn't suggesting burning bridges or saying no. I was suggesting being realistic about what you're willing to provide at that cost. Say yes if you want to and build those small town relationships but build them in a manner that's beneficial to all. Sorry to have to be the bearer of bad neighboring but "Rob's a swell guy" isn't beneficial to the business unless Rob can still be a swell guy when he's watching out for his own best interests as well as theirs. Since you know this person it won't be in bad form to let them know that you're doing them a favor with the price and that it is not what you would normally charge for doing the job. "I can't give you a starter salad and pork loin with a starch, veg and bread for $7 person but I can do some nice sandwich trays and a pot of homemade soup for you in that price range as an introductory offer. Hopefully you'll keep me in mind when the budget allows for something more extravagant so I can show you what I really can do."

[gfron1]

Absolutely - I didn't take your comment that way. With recent events I've just been thinking about the differences in small town relationships and how they're possibly even more sensitive than other communities/cities.