Chicken Stock

[nakji]

I do my veal stock in the oven but I think the taste of chicken any more than 3 maybe 4 hours starts to loose that fresh taste and I guess i don't care for that. Also though, I have never reduced any stock down to 25%. Not sure I know how.

Hmm, that's a good question. I assumed that I would just strain the stock, then continue to boil it down until it had reduced. I'm not sure that's the best method, though.

[RobertCollins]

I bet somebody here will know and educate us!

That is the best part of this [is this the right word?] place.

[jsager01]

The bags work fine, but also remember that you don't have to freeze it at full strength. I make stock, reduce it to a quarter of its original volume and freeze it in one-ounce portions (I have ice cube trays whose "cubes" each hold an ounce so it's easy for me). Then, each cube makes half a cup of stock when reconstituted, which for me is the most useful amount to thaw at a time. If I want a cup of stock it's two cubes, etc. Takes up a lot less room in the freezer.

Great tip. My freezer's pretty small, so conserving space is important for me. I don't really freeze anything other than ice cubes and stock, but even still. Like I said, I mostly use my stock for soups and risotto, so I usually don't mind thawing a whole lot of it at once, but lately I've been using stock to finish stir-fried vegetables, so having cubes would be handy. The main problem for me: ice cube trays. I have exactly one, which is purposed for ice. Apparently, in China people think iced drinks are bad for your qi, so they're not readily available in every shop. I guess I'll have to make a run out to one of the big supermarkets.

i do something similar, except that i use a regular tray (ie not an ice cube tray) - any plastic tray that will hold stock to a depth of 2 to 3 cm will do. Once frozen, it should be easy enough to flip the frozen block onto a chopping board and cut into sizes that will fit into, and maximise use of the ziploc bag. The 2 to 3 cm thickness is easy enough to cut thru without too much fragmentation, if any.

Not sure if this has any benefit, but i wrap each piece in wax or baking paper before putting into the ziploc bags.

Use as many pieces as required, or cut off a small chunk from a piece if that is all that is required.

Edited May 27, 2010 by jsager01 (log)

[JAZ]

I do my veal stock in the oven but I think the taste of chicken any more than 3 maybe 4 hours starts to loose that fresh taste and I guess i don't care for that. Also though, I have never reduced any stock down to 25%. Not sure I know how.

Hmm, that's a good question. I assumed that I would just strain the stock, then continue to boil it down until it had reduced. I'm not sure that's the best method, though.

I used to make chicken stock with onions, carrot and celery, and cook it for 3-4 hours. A couple years ago, I started cooking it longer without any vegetables, which for my uses results in a better stock. I can always add vegetables later if I want their flavor; most importantly, I think it's the vegetables overcooking that makes chicken stock taste funky when cooked for a long time.

In any case, I use 2 pounds bones/meat for each quart of stock, so reducing is easy math. I usually start with 4 pounds of chicken and simmer it overnight on low. In the morning, I strain and chill, then refrigerate so the fat congeals on the top. The next day, I remove the fat and bring the stock to a boil. Since I started with 4 pounds of chicken, I know that full strength, I want to end up with 2 quarts of stock. Reduced to 4x strength, that's 2 cups, or 16 fluid ounces. I just boil away until I'm getting close to that amount, then start measuring. If I go too long, I just add water back to the stock to equal 2 cups.

Does that make sense?

[Dave the Cook]

I do my veal stock in the oven but I think the taste of chicken any more than 3 maybe 4 hours starts to loose that fresh taste and I guess i don't care for that. Also though, I have never reduced any stock down to 25%. Not sure I know how.

Hmm, that's a good question. I assumed that I would just strain the stock, then continue to boil it down until it had reduced. I'm not sure that's the best method, though.

Okay, I cross-posted with Janet, but maybe I have some additional tips.

You have to have a formula. Here's mine; you don't need to use this one in particular, but you'll need to come up with something that suits your tastes.

I figure on one quart of finished stock for every two pounds of meat and bones (for land animals; fish and shellfish require different techniques). This gives me consistent results, and means that I don't have to worry about how much water I start with. So I weigh the meat, then roast all ingredients if I want a brown stock, or not, if I don't. Everything goes into the stockpot with enough water to cover generously. Simmer as needed. Chicken goes eight to twelve hours; lamb, pork or beef go longer.

When I'm done with the simmer, I strain the stock into a large Cambro container and let it cool, then refrigerate. I don't worry too much about time in the danger zone, because I know the stock will be boiled the next day.

I skim the fat and other junk off the top, then go back the original weights. If I started with eight pounds of meat and bones, I measure out four quarts of chilled stock into my pot. I dip a wooden spoon into the stock and mark the level for four quarts on the shaft of the spoon with a Sharpie. The rest of the stock goes in, and the heat goes on. I bring it to a boil and let it roil, checking the level against my spoon mark from time to time. When I hit that level, I know I've got a consistent concentration, and I can be done.

However.

If I want an 8:1 reduction, instead of measuring four quarts, I pour out two cups before reducing and mark my spoon. For 4:1, I measure a quart. My habit is to slightly over-reduce, then pour into a measuring cup and add water to make it exact.

[jsager01]

maybe i am missing out on something, but i do not do a final boil down when making stock. I start off by using the minimum amount of water that will result in stock that will be concentrated enough for its purpose, without the final boil down. Some experimentation may be required to determine this 'minimum' amount of water. For example, to get 1 litre of stock, i may start the stock with 1 litre + a bit more to account for evaporation.

The water level i start off with is usually not enough to cover the meat/bones. I give it a stir every now and then (if i remember to do so), so that they all get a chance to be immersed fully in the water. I use a stainless steel stock pot with a tight fitting lid, and sometimes even place a heavy bowl, eg pyrex bowl, on top of the lid - thinking that this may keep any steam/heat in the stockpot for longer, and that will also steam the meat/bones that are above the water level. A pressure cooker might be better suited for this purpose, but i dont have one. Or simmer it , covered, in the oven.

i usually do a second batch, again with minimal amount of water and no boil down, and use this second batch to add to soups/braises/etc.

Of course, the above method is far from precise, and i dont think i have ever made stock with 8:1 reduction, but good enough to finish off a stir fry, etc.

I usually simmer my stock for 4 to 5 hours. Any longer, and especially with the boil down, will change the flavor of the stock, giving it a kind of 'canned' flavor that reminds me of store-bought stock. I dont add vegetables or anything else during stock making. Any one ever done it this way?

[Shalmanese]

I used to make chicken stock with onions, carrot and celery, and cook it for 3-4 hours. A couple years ago, I started cooking it longer without any vegetables, which for my uses results in a better stock. I can always add vegetables later if I want their flavor; most importantly, I think it's the vegetables overcooking that makes chicken stock taste funky when cooked for a long time.

I make my chicken stock by boiling with just bones to begin with. Then, after straining and defatting, I throw in a fine dice of vegetable and cook it at a rolling boil for ~ 1 hour or until it's reduced by 3x before straining again. That way, you get the freshness of the vegetable flavor as well as a super concentrated stock suitable for freezing.

[Katie Meadow]

When I started making stock many years ago, my only cookbook was a Julia Child one, so I pretty much got into the habit of following her general instructions, which are, in brief, as follows: put in the pot raw and/or cooked carcass, meat, bones, whatever. Add water to two inches above the ingredients. Bring to a simmer and skim off the foam until it stops appearing. Then add aromatics and veggies as desired, continue to simmer very gently UNcovered, for 3 to 4 hours. I do usually add some onion stuck with cloves, a carrot and a stick or two of celery, including the leaves, and I might throw in some whole coriander seeds and peppercorns. If I am making an Asian broth I add different stuff.

Julia cautions against boiling and against covering at any time; she says that covering the hot stock can lead to souring. I have no idea if this is true. I start with a small whole chicken, 2 lbs of backs and 1 lb of feet in a big stockpot. Most often I want a bit of tender chicken for soup or whatever, so after about 45 min at a low simmer I pull out the whole chicken and simply pull off some nice hunks of breast meat and set it aside. I throw the rest back in the pot, and 15 minutes later I take it out again and remove some of the dark meat and add it to the breast meat. Back in goes the rest of the bird. I find the meat pretty worthless after more than an hour or two, except to make the stock. Typically I let it simmer for a total of 3 hours, or a bit longer.

I have never measured water but I suppose with approximately a 3 lb chicken and 3 lbs of parts I usually end up with about 5-6 quarts of medium-rich stock. I never do a second round with the bones, nor do I cook down the stock further. The dog and I split what's left of the carrot and she gets some chicken picked off the bones.

[ChrisTaylor]

I've just finished my first batch of chicken stock using a slow cooker. Other than the change on equipment (I previously prepared my stock on the stove or in the oven) I kept the recipe the same: a whole pile of wings and carcasses (when I can get them, I replace the carcasses with boiler chickens), a couple carrots, a few onions and a couple sticks of celery. Aside from a little pinch of pepper and a couple bay leaves, I use no herbs or spices: my stock might be used for something that'd be benefit from the thyme/parsley/etc, but maybe I'll end up using it for something that can do without the thyme.

[Zachary]

My way of chicken stock is effectively what Bourdain says to do in "Les Halles". Take 2:1:1 yellow onion, carrot, celery to fill a sheet pan with a bit of oil. I have a Calphalon roasting pan, so into that goes bony chicken parts (from broken down chickens, augmented with turkey necks and chicken wings), then a package of split pig's feet, which should fill the pan to a bit more than a single layer. Add a pinch of salt over the meaty parts, then add a couple of teaspoons tomato paste (from a tube) mixed into a tablespoon of flour.

Heat oven to 450, and roast the meat for an hour. Remove from the oven, turn the meat over, put it back in, put the veggies in for another hour. In the mean time, tie up your aromatics in cheesecloth: 5-6 sprigs of thyme, 1 onion skin (for color), 2 bay leaves, 5-6 parsley stems, 1 tablespoon peppercorns.

In an 8 quart stock pot, add a couple inches of water. Add the cheesecloth. Remove the pans from the oven, and add the veggies and parts to the stockpot. Deglaze both pans with water, being sure to scrape well - this is where the color comes from. Fill the pot with more water until everything is covered by a few inches, bring to a boil and reduce the heat to a simmer.

Scum will start to form. Remove it. Be vigilant about this - the more scum you remove, the clearer your stock will be. Now, let the pot simmer for as long as you can. 4 hours is good, 8 is better. If the water level drops to the level of the parts, add more water to cover by a few inches, but remember... adding more water will make more scum. Remove that stuff.

When you're done simmering, strain the chicken stock, pressing on the solids to extract all the liquid. Let the stock rest until a layer of fat forms on top. At this point, you can either freeze the stock and remove the fat cap, or just spoon the fat off the top, saving the fat for sauteeing potatoes, or Thanksgiving dinner, if you're around that time.

Wipe out the stock pot with a paper towel, and return the stock to the pot. Bring to a boil, and reduce the heat, simmering the stock. This will throw some foam around the edges of the pot, which you should skim off. Reduce this down until you have it reduced as you want it. I tend to reduce it 4x (marking the level of the liquid on a wooden spoon helps). Pour the stock through a fine strainer into the container of your choice, and refrigerate overnight.

The next day, you will have chicken stock Jell-O covered with a thin layer of fat. I cut this into cubes and throw the cubes into a Ziploc, which goes into the freezer, if I'm not using it right away.

Thanks,

Zachary

[phatj]

I don't bother with aromatics or herbs. I want my stock to taste like liquid chicken. That said, I save bones from various cooked chicken dishes (unless seasoned with something particularly assertive) along with raw bones and other scraps trimmed from raw parts in the freezer until I have a gallon Ziploc or two filled, so the stock will definitely not be "pure". I augment that with a couple of whole fryers bought whenever I can find them on sale.

I dump all this in my 16-qt stockpot and add water just to cover, then bring it to the verge of a boil before turning the heat down to the barest simmer (if I happen to be in the kitchen at the time; I don't worry too much if it boils a bit). After half an hour, I take out the whole chickens and let them cool on a cutting board long enough to handle. I strip the meat from the breasts, legs and wings, then add the rest of the carcasses back to the stock pot. (The meat is reserved for other uses.) I simmer at least a couple hours, usually four hours or more. I skim a couple times toward the beginning.

Then I strain out the solids and chill (I do this primarily in the winter and will put the stock out on the deck overnight to chill). Then I remove the fat cap and warm the stock on the stove to re-liquefy, then strain through a paper towel into a smaller stockpot for reduction. I usually reduce at least 50%. Then I portion into disposable plastic tubs for larger recipes like soups and Ziploc sandwich bags for other uses (the latter are themselves placed in Ziploc freezer bags) and freeze.

Edited March 11, 2012 by phatj (log)

[scubadoo97]

I do something similar to Phatj except I use a pressure cooker. Sometimes I will add some unroasted aromatics but most often just chicken bones and scrap meat.

I strain and chill. Most of the fat is removed at straining. Sometimes the stock is reduced prior to chilling. I get great gelling with the use of a pressure cooker.

[gfweb]

How long do you pressure cook the chicken?

[scubadoo97]

How long do you pressure cook the chicken?

about 60-90 min + cool down

[Emily_R]

Just chiming in to say I do the same as scubadoo97 -- in fact, just did it today. I PC for 60 minutes, and like Phatj, I tend to prefer just chicken parts, salt, and some peppercorns -- no aromatics.

[patrickamory]

I do a brown roasted stock from an early '90s Gourmet magazine, and it always turns out delicious. I hack up an entire chicken (usually Murray's, though I'm curious to try a real stewpot bird if I can find one) and put the pieces, bones and neck in a heavy roasting pan with carrots and onions and roast for a while. Decant everything into a stockpot, deglaze the roasting pan and put that in as well, then simmer with a bouquet garni for a couple hours.

[ScottyBoy]

I brown chicken wings add bay leaf and cook for about 6 hours. It's my base for all kinds of stuff and to make traditional stock I just brown veggies and simmer once again. Mainly it's the broth I use for my mushroom soup. The other vegetables, herbs and pepper get in the way of the pure umami and mushroom flavor I'm going for.

Yup.

Edited March 11, 2012 by ScottyBoy (log)

[dcarch]

Chicken gizzards and turkey necks make very flavorful stock, and they are inexpensive.

My secrete for making chicken stock:

1. Go to Chinatown and buy a free-range old (senior citizen) whole chicken. It comes with head and feet. Old chickens are what they use to make stock.

2. Add a couple of turkey necks and put all in a pot.

3. Put pot inside a pressure cooker. ADD NO WATER in the chicken pot.

4. Cook for about an hour.

You will get about two cups of what I call “super stock”. Absolute amazing pure flavor liquid gold.

After that, you add water to the pot and cook again and you will get your regular chicken stock.

dcarch

[Shalmanese]

I've switched from making chicken stock to making duck stock. I buy 3 ducks and break it down into 1.5 quarts of duck fat, 6 breasts, 6 legs and about 2 gallons of stock. When I'm done with the duck fat, I buy another 3 ducks. The reason I use 3 is because 3 duck legs fit perfectly in a spiral pattern in a bamboo steamer so I can steam 6 duck legs on 2 levels. I find gentle steaming renders out the most fat from the legs while keeping the meat tender.

The most efficient way I've found thus far to rendering out the duck fat is to first allow it to gently steam/boil in it's own juices until cooked, then to give it a whirl in the food processor and then cook until all the water is rendered out. It leaves you would evenly sized, crunchy crackling that's great on salads and the most duck fat extracted.

I then use the duck fat to deep fry the bones before they go in the stock for maximum brown duck flavor. I either like to keep it neutral with just onions & garlic or split it into a European duck stock (bay, thyme, carrots, celery, black pepper) and an asian duck stock (spring onions, ginger, garlic, star anise, dried chilli, cinnamom).

The breasts, I score and then rub with a mixture of salt & baking powder and leave them in a baking dish in the fridge, skin side up with a 1/2 inch of slightly salty water. The water brines the meat while the fridge & salt dries up the skin and the baking powder breaks down the cell walls, allowing you to get the ultimate crispy skin and juicy meat.

[ScottyBoy]

Dude totally except I'm using squab right now. The breasts I'm using for the dinners but the carcasse, legs and wings I'm roasting and using for stock. What a deep rich flavor it has!

[Emily_R]

Hi Everyone --

When making chicken stock, adding chicken skin of course results in lots of fat that needs to be skimmed off when the stock is cool. I'm wondering if the skin does in fact add flavor (and so I should keep it in and keep skimming), or whether it adds relatively little flavor and I can leave it out...

Emily

[Shel_B]

I make it both ways, and, frankly, I cant tell any significant difference in taste between skin on and skin off. Chicken has fat in it anyway, and it seems to me that there's enough for carrying the flavor.

[ScottyBoy]

I roast chicken wings for my stocks so there's a good deal of skin. There is a great deal of roasted chicken flavor in the stock and the fat that gets skimmed is awesome to add to bags when SV something like a chicken breast.

[Shel_B]

I roast chicken wings for my stocks so there's a good deal of skin. There is a great deal of roasted chicken flavor in the stock and the fat that gets skimmed is awesome to add to bags when SV something like a chicken breast.

I guess you don't find the roasted flavor a detriment. Sometimes I appreciate that flavor, but mostly I want something less intense, a background flavor, a subtle overtone, or "fresher" or "cleaner" flavor than when using roasted chicken.

Edited December 3, 2012 by Shel_B (log)

[ScottyBoy]

Oh sure. I'll make a blonde stock if I need one. I use this roast chicken water mostly in hearty soups, mainly for my mushroom soup that I'm known for. It's a strong chicken flavor for sure. Reduced to a jus with any kind of poultry dish it's an awesome concentrated poultry flavor. And like I said, poaching breasts in the fat was a revelation to add chicken flavor to a lean cut.