Gianduja: The Topic

[Jim D.]

Even though the Italian pastry chef across the street from me insists that gianduja is made only with milk chocolate, I have found I like the taste made with dark much better. Originally I bought bars of gianduja from Valrhona and melted them gently, but quickly discovered it is as much a pain to melt them (keeping them in temper) as it is make the stuff from scratch (not to mention the cost of having Valrhona make the gianduja). So I bought Cacao Barry's hazelnut praline paste and followed Peter Greweling's 1:1 (chocolate, hazelnut praline paste) recipe, which results in the equivalent of 1:1:1 (chocolate, hazelnuts, sugar). One time I accidentally purchased plain hazelnut paste (Cacao Barry) and discovered that I liked the taste of 1:1 dark chocolate to hazelnut paste (no added sugar) much better. Cutting the sugar this much is unorthodox, but it works and I have had no issues. The consistency of the final product depends on the consistency of the hazelnut paste (and how well I have mixed it up), but it firms up enough to cut and not so firm as to endanger guitar wires.

[pastrygirl]

11 hours ago, mebinsf said:

 

I've seen some gianduja that is too firm for a centre. I that changed by your nut:chocolate ratio?

 

Yes, more non-cocoa butter fats in the mix make it softer, whether that is milk fat, hazelnut oil, or others such as coconut oil for meltaways or browned butter for deliciousness.

 

Speaking of gianduja, has anyone tried Valrhona Azelia?  I keep seeing posts on instagram describing it as "the first chocolate in the world to combine the indulgence of hazelnuts with milk chocolate" and I wonder what the heck they're talking about since milk chocolate gianduja already exists.  Maybe they define gianduja as a different proportion and the Azelia is more chocolate?

 

 

 

http://valrhonaprofessionals.com/azelia.html

[Kerry Beal]

I've tried it - tasty! I think that they conche the non oil parts of the hazelnut with the chocolate 

 

 

[teonzo]

2 hours ago, Kerry Beal said:

I've tried it - tasty! I think that they conche the non oil parts of the hazelnut with the chocolate 

 

 

 

Just a way to utilize the byproduct of hazelnut oil production?

I've been puzzled when I saw about their pistachio praline: I said to myself "a bad way to ruin good pistachios, or a good way to recycle bad pistachios".

Call me old, blind or whatever, but they lost me with all that stuff like Dulcey, Caramelia and so on.

 

 

 

Teo

 

[pastrygirl]

7 hours ago, teonzo said:

 

Just a way to utilize the byproduct of hazelnut oil production?

I've been puzzled when I saw about their pistachio praline: I said to myself "a bad way to ruin good pistachios, or a good way to recycle bad pistachios".

Call me old, blind or whatever, but they lost me with all that stuff like Dulcey, Caramelia and so on.

 

What's wrong with their pistachio praline? 

 

I do like Dulcey  but Caramelia is too sweet for me.  I'm sure there are lots of pastry chefs who appreciate the time saving and consistency of some of the new blends.

[teonzo]

16 hours ago, pastrygirl said:

 

What's wrong with their pistachio praline? 

 

Simply I don't like it, hehhehe. I'm a bit of a pistachio "purist", I'm not a fan of the pairing with caramel. Using top quality pistachios in a praline is just a waste of good ingredients in my opinion, you loose the nuances that make good pistachios good. Giving how much pistachios cost, I don't see much sense in buying something where pistachio qualities are covered. As I wrote, it seems like a way to use non-top pistachios and ask premium prices for them. Good for their wallets, not for mine.

 

 

 

16 hours ago, pastrygirl said:

I do like Dulcey  but Caramelia is too sweet for me.  I'm sure there are lots of pastry chefs who appreciate the time saving and consistency of some of the new blends.

 

Same as above: I don't think they use their top cocoa beans for caramelized products, but they ask premium prices for them. Ok, caramel flavored things will always appeal to the masses and be a good sell, but there are cheaper ways to get those flavors.

 

 

 

Teo

 

[Jim D.]

On 11/19/2016 at 1:29 AM, pastrygirl said:

 

What's wrong with their pistachio praline? 

 

I'm interested in trying that flavor, but don't see anywhere to order it. How would you suggest it be made? Make a caramel and add that to some pistachio paste?

[jmacnaughtan]

On 20/11/2016 at 2:56 PM, Jim D. said:

I'm interested in trying that flavor, but don't see anywhere to order it. How would you suggest it be made? Make a caramel and add that to some pistachio paste?

 

I would have thought it would be made the normal way - cook the pistachios with sugar until they caramelise, then grind.

[Jim D.]

But my issue is that I already have some good and completely smooth pistachio paste, from which I now want to make pistachio praline paste--and from that, pistachio gianduja. It seems logical to me that I should make a caramel (just the caramelized sugar, not a full-fledged caramel with cream) and add it to the paste, but I'm not sure what will happen because I can't think of any analogous techniques. I am guessing that heating the pistachio paste may help prevent the immediate seizing of the caramel. Obviously experimentation is in order. Any insights would be appreciated.

[jmacnaughtan]

17 hours ago, Jim D. said:

But my issue is that I already have some good and completely smooth pistachio paste, from which I now want to make pistachio praline paste--and from that, pistachio gianduja. It seems logical to me that I should make a caramel (just the caramelized sugar, not a full-fledged caramel with cream) and add it to the paste, but I'm not sure what will happen because I can't think of any analogous techniques. I am guessing that heating the pistachio paste may help prevent the immediate seizing of the caramel. Obviously experimentation is in order. Any insights would be appreciated.

 

I'd be worried about the paste splitting if you do it like that.

 

It might be worth mixing the paste directly with tempered chocolate - you'll retain more of the flavour of the pistachio, and it'll be less sweet.  I'd probably want to use white chocolate anyway, so as not to drown out the flavour and colour.  

[pastrygirl]

12 minutes ago, jmacnaughtan said:

 

I'd be worried about the paste splitting if you do it like that.

 

It might be worth mixing the paste directly with tempered chocolate - you'll retain more of the flavour of the pistachio, and it'll be less sweet.  I'd probably want to use white chocolate anyway, so as not to drown out the flavour and colour.  

 

Mix it with Dulcey.  Or half Dulcey and half milk.  Oh, so that's why they make Caramelia

[Jim D.]

I thought I should report on today's experimentation, the goal being to create a pistachio praline gianduja:

 

I caramelized some sugar and glucose and added it to pistachio paste (both fairly close to the same temperature). It is, of course, not possible to let the caramel cool or it completely hardens. When the two are mixed, the caramel hardens into lumps. I melted this mixture over hot water, and most of the caramel eventually melted, but the overall texture was not acceptable as it contained clumps of caramel which only increased as the mixture cooled. Perhaps most significantly, the taste of the caramel mostly overpowered that of the pistachio, so the big clue was that pistachio is much more delicate in flavor than I thought (as @jmacnaughtan pointed out earlier).

 

Second try was to make pistachio praline paste from scratch: I caramelized sugar and glucose, added toasted pistachios, poured the mixture onto a Silpat, then ground it to paste in a food processor. It was not (no surprise here) completely smooth. I added an equal amount of white chocolate and melted the two together to make a gianduja. The final taste was quite bland, with the taste of the Valrhona Opalys chocolate predominant.

 

Third approach was simply to mix equal parts of the pistachio paste (no caramel added) and white chocolate, again to make gianduja. The taste is by far the best of the attempts, with a strong pistachio taste. I added some toasted, chopped pistachios with the thought that they might add even more flavor, but whereas they do add a nice texture, I did not perceive any additional flavor. The problem with the gianduja is the texture--it is nowhere near solid enough to use in a bonbon; I would guess that it would take double the amount of white chocolate to make it acceptable. Although I have not tried that option, I am fairly certain that we would once more be dealing with a faint pistachio taste.

 

Oh well, it was an interesting possibility....

[Jim D.]

To complete the record of my pistachio experimentation:  Contrary to expectations, after a full day, the purchased pistachio paste mixed with an equal part of white chocolate firmed up enough so that it could be piped. It definitely tasted of pistachio. Also contrary to my previous impression, adding some toasted pistachios makes for a stronger pistachio taste, and because no liquid has been added to the mixture, the nuts do not get soggy. On the other hand, the homemade pistachio praline paste, while delicious on ice cream, tastes primarily of caramel. I look forward to trying Valrhona's product to see what they may have done with it.

[Bentley]

I've been making variations of gianduja with different nuts - hazelnuts, peanuts and pistachios.  The typical ratio is 1 part nuts to 1 part chocolate.  I find this makes a very firm gianduja.  If I wanted to make a creamier product, would you increase the ration of nuts to chocolate or add a little cream to the mixture?  This would be a for a filled bonbon, so the extended shelf life of uncoated gianduja isn't as important. 

[pastrygirl]

You could do more nuts or more oil, or milk fat if you're not already using milk chocolate.  Is your nut paste already very smooth?  How dark is your chocolate? 

 

If you choose to add liquid and emulsify it into a ganache, consider using water or liqueur.  There is so much fat in gianduja already, more fat from cream can be overkill.

 

 

[Bentley]

That's a good point about the fat content.   Water might be the simplest solution.  I don't think it would take much to thin out the gianduja a bit.   I don't need it runny...just a little less firm than it is.

[Jim D.]

I didn't know where else to post this question. I have made almond gianduja many times and have always ground the nuts in the food processor with success--they liquefy in a fairly short time. But this last time they did not. After so long that I worried about my Cuisinart, I added some unflavored oil; it took quite a lot of it, but the almonds finally liquefied (more or less). Unfortunately some of their flavor is gone, and I want a paste tasting strongly of almond. I have some good French almond flavoring, but of course that is mixing water with the fat of gianduja. So I began looking online for almond oil. There is lots of it available, but it's meant for salads and not for flavoring. The only one I found that looks promising is a "toasted almond oil" from France. So often nut products are rancid, especially when they are "gourmet" products that probably sit around for a while. The most frequently referenced almond flavoring made from oil is Lorann, but a little research revealed some dramatically negative reviews for its artificial taste (it's not made from almonds).

 

Does anyone have any knowledge of a good almond oil?  Can I get away with a small amount of water-based flavoring in a gianduja?

[pastrygirl]

1 hour ago, Jim D. said:

 

Does anyone have any knowledge of a good almond oil?  Can I get away with a small amount of water-based flavoring in a gianduja?

 

No,  and I don't think so.  But!  Maybe you could try those bitter almond kernels or bitter apricot seeds that are supposedly healthy and cancer-fighting but may contain arsenic and kill you if eaten in excess (I don't recall if we debated their merits on this forum before).  But a few should be fine, especially if heated to neutralize the poison ... 😉  I believe they are the same bitter almonds used to flavor almond extract.

Edited July 26, 2018 by pastrygirl (log)

[Kerry Beal]

2 hours ago, Jim D. said:

I didn't know where else to post this question. I have made almond gianduja many times and have always ground the nuts in the food processor with success--they liquefy in a fairly short time. But this last time they did not. After so long that I worried about my Cuisinart, I added some unflavored oil; it took quite a lot of it, but the almonds finally liquefied (more or less). Unfortunately some of their flavor is gone, and I want a paste tasting strongly of almond. I have some good French almond flavoring, but of course that is mixing water with the fat of gianduja. So I began looking online for almond oil. There is lots of it available, but it's meant for salads and not for flavoring. The only one I found that looks promising is a "toasted almond oil" from France. So often nut products are rancid, especially when they are "gourmet" products that probably sit around for a while. The most frequently referenced almond flavoring made from oil is Lorann, but a little research revealed some dramatically negative reviews for its artificial taste (it's not made from almonds).

 

Does anyone have any knowledge of a good almond oil?  Can I get away with a small amount of water-based flavoring in a gianduja?

I must confess that I don't taste much difference between the Lorann and the actual bitter almond oil that I happen to have a bottle of made by Xenex labs. The Lorann has the advantage of not containing prussic acid which the real stuff does.

 

And a small amount of extract probably isn't a huge problem in your gianduja anyway.

 

 

Edited July 26, 2018 by Kerry Beal (log)

[Rajala]

I'll ask a question here as well. Reading a recipe by Leroux, where I'm not sure exactly what he mean.

 

Any ideas?

 

1. Roast nuts, mix with sugar

2. Mix with melted chocolate and add cocoa butter, temper at 28°

3. Pour onto tray and allow to crystallize.

4. Pass through the grinder

5. Temper once more at 28°

 

He mentions that you need to use a grinder or a "ball bearing refiner" to achieve maximum level of smoothness. I guess that if you run it through a melanger at the beginning to make the praliné, you really wouldn't need to temper twice, or what do  you guys say? I've never tempered a gianduja before, what's the idea here? Make sure that it's heated to 45 degrees and just table it till 28 degrees? Or are there more steps? 🤔

[Kerry Beal]

22 minutes ago, Rajala said:

I'll ask a question here as well. Reading a recipe by Leroux, where I'm not sure exactly what he mean.

 

Any ideas?

 

1. Roast nuts, mix with sugar

2. Mix with melted chocolate and add cocoa butter, temper at 28°

3. Pour onto tray and allow to crystallize.

4. Pass through the grinder

5. Temper once more at 28°

 

He mentions that you need to use a grinder or a "ball bearing refiner" to achieve maximum level of smoothness. I guess that if you run it through a melanger at the beginning to make the praliné, you really wouldn't need to temper twice, or what do  you guys say? I've never tempered a gianduja before, what's the idea here? Make sure that it's heated to 45 degrees and just table it till 28 degrees? Or are there more steps? 🤔

I think the step that would differ would be to replace 'pass through the grinder' with melange in the melanger. So there would still be two tempering steps.

 

When I temper gianduja the traditional way - I melt, then cool down to 24º C, then heat back up again to around 28º C.

 

 

[Rajala]

1 minute ago, Kerry Beal said:

I think the step that would differ would be to replace 'pass through the grinder' with melange in the melanger. So there would still be two tempering steps.

 

When I temper gianduja the traditional way - I melt, then cool down to 24º C, then heat back up again to around 28º C.

 

 

 

Hmm. Yeah, but... I wonder why you would do it twice though? If my praliné already is super smooth. I mean, the chocolate should be pretty smooth already as well. 

[Kerry Beal]

But it’s not  praline at the first tempering step - it’s whole nuts in chocolate as I read it.

Edited July 29, 2018 by Kerry Beal (log)

[pastrygirl]

4 hours ago, Rajala said:

 

Hmm. Yeah, but... I wonder why you would do it twice though? If my praliné already is super smooth. I mean, the chocolate should be pretty smooth already as well. 

 

I agree, skip a step by grinding your nuts & sugar smooth, add purchased chocolate and temper only once.

[Rajala]

7 hours ago, Kerry Beal said:

But it’s not  praline at the first tempering step - it’s whole nuts in chocolate as I read it.



 

That's my fault, I didn't write _everything_. It includes the whole roast and mix with sugar part. Maybe it makes more sense for my questions when you know this?

 

3 hours ago, pastrygirl said:

 

I agree, skip a step by grinding your nuts & sugar smooth, add purchased chocolate and temper only once.

 

I think I'll go with that.