Tomato in Chinese Cuisine - Ketchup, tomato sauce

[Gary Soup]

The add-in I had was ?win-star? or something like that, and as you said --it wasn't compatible with Windows XP.  I just added all the Chinese language selections in the 'tool' list, and it worked when I tested it in my own e-mail. Let me see if it works here: (it worked in the preview)

西瓜 - Xi gua -- watermelon

(I know of the 'fan' (fan cai) and 'yang' (yang bai cai). I guess 'xi' can be added to the list. Fascinating language!!!)

Wasn't that easy, ?

I'm not sure the "xi" in xigua refers to the (foreign) west, though that may be the case. There's also the "donggua" (winter melon) and "nangua" (pumpkin). Oddly, according to my dictionary, "beigua" also means "pumpkin" though I've never heard the term used.

[Bond Girl]

One version of the Taiwanese fried rice uses ketchup to gve the dish a sweet tomatoey taste. I don't particularly like it, but it is very popular. Ketchup is also frequently used as part of a mainade for those ribs you get in Flushing, though I think that is more mainland China than Taiwan. There is a Malaysian Chili crab that uses a lot of ketchup and thai chili to give it a sweet spicy taste. Not exactly chinese, but more Malaysian Chinese.

[Pan]

Regarding budu - I'm curious - could you provide more information on it? Is it hard like blachan / trassi? Or thin like the fish sauces of the rest of SE Asia?

Thin like those other sauces. I don't have any recipes handy, but I imagine Shiewie would be a good source. (Are you reading this thread, Shiewie?)

[Shiewie]

Hi

Haven't been online for the past week, just got back from a trip away (non food-centered !).

Budu is used mainly as a condiment or dip - here's a link to a recipe for Nasi Kerabu that uses budu in the sambal served with it.

skchai - I googled and found some other recipes using budu but they're in Malay. If you want them, I can translate them for you.

[skchai]

Thanks Shiewie! I think the CyberKuali article gives me enough of an idea of how it's used, but I appreciate the offer.

According to the article, budu is a Kelantanese specialty. I presume it would be reasonable to assume that budu was adapted from Thai fish sauce, nam pla?

[Pan]

Budu is also used by Terengganu people, but Terengganu is very much influenced by Kelantan, anyway.

[Shiewie]

Thanks Shiewie!  I think the CyberKuali article gives me enough of an idea of how it's used, but I appreciate the offer. 

According to the article, budu is a Kelantanese specialty.  I presume it would be reasonable to assume that budu was adapted from Thai fish sauce, nam pla?

You're most welcome!

There are lots of Thai influences in the food of Northern Peninsular Malaysia but I don't know whether budu is adapted from Thai nam pla. Fish sauce and shrimp paste are found in many variants all over the Asia-Pacific region and I'm not sure where they actually originated from.

A friend brought some Maldivian equivalent of Budu back from our recent trip there and I'm waiting to try what it's like in comparison.

[robkhoo]

My dad is Chinese and from Penang - when he was living with his parents (in the 40's) tomato ketchup was introduced and quickly became an exotic new seasoning that caught on with he kids - they used to put it on all sorts of stuff, apparently, because of the novelty value.

[Dejah]

My Mom always used a couple tablespoons of ketsup to "sweeten" beef and fresh tomato stir-fry. Other than that, our house uses ketsup mainly on foods like fries,

burger, etc.

[Jason Perlow]

I saw it recently used on Iron Chef when Chen Kenichi used it as the basis for a chili shrimp dish.

[jeff29992001]

on a side note, there is a sauce called banana ketchup. it's made in the philipines by Heinz, and 1-2 other companies (at least that's what's exported to the supermarkets here..) Banana ketchup is made of bananas and chilies, with enough red food coloring added to make the sauce look exactly like tomato ketchup (it has the right consistancy too.)

anybody try this sauce, and what do you think?

Edited January 12, 2004 by jeff29992001 (log)

[CalorieLab]

Mark Bittman has a recipe for ketchup in "How to Cook Everything." The first time I saw it I thought, What idiot would make ketchup from scratch? Fourteen ingredients, 2 hours cooking.

Well ... I made it last week. It's really good ketchup. I'm not sure when I'll make it again, but it was an interesting experience.

Mark

Edited January 15, 2004 by CalorieLab (log)

[stephenc]

I saw it recently used on Iron Chef when Chen Kenichi used it as the basis for a chili shrimp dish.

That's a pretty common dish.

[sandra]

and the "sa-la" dipping sauce which is de rigeur with deep-fried prawn dim sum in london.  basically consists of salad cream mixed with tinned fruit cocktail.  goes very well with the crispy dumpling

What's salad cream?

Miracle Whip....

[Susan G]

Tomatos are New World fruits; I learned somewhere that it was the Chinese laborers building the American transcontinental railway in the 1880's who developed ketchup.

[herbacidal]

on a side note, there is a sauce called banana ketchup. it's made in the philipines by Heinz, and 1-2 other companies (at least that's what's exported to the supermarkets here..) Banana ketchup is made of bananas and chilies, with enough red food coloring added to make the sauce look exactly like tomato ketchup (it has the right consistancy too.)

anybody try this sauce, and what do you think?

Hmm, i wonder if the guy who developed banana milk jumped ship and went over to Heinz?

[markk]

I'm very familiar with Cantonese cooking, and very fond of it (and make the trek to Flushing from NJ now that my Chinatown favorite is gone) and I'm also familair with what has pased for Szechuan food and now quite addicted to Grand Sichuan International. But I don't know anything about Shanghai cuisine... would anybody care to explain it, and suggest some various dishes, specialties, favorites to try? Thanks.

[jo-mel]

Oh boy!! How to describe Shanghainese food! It is so complex that I hope someone can do it completely in a few words.

It is rich, it rarely is light, but there are light dishes. It uses sugar, vinegar and wine liberally. It is famous for local foods found in the nearby cities -- Hangzhou, Suzhou, etc,. It is known for its long cooking, and stewed dishes -- known a Red Cooking (Hong Shao). It is famous for its ham so you often see dishes featuring ham. It is in a delta -- so many fish and shellfish dishes, and its climate allows abundance.

Because of the British/Russian/French colonies, and the trading with Europe --the international influence is seen.

To me, it is not delicate food. There are delicate dishes, but for me it is stick to the rib kind of cooking, with many flavors.

Lions Head, Salt Cooked Chicken, Hairy Crab, Yang Chow Fried Rice, Honeyed Ham, Drunken Chicken, Shanghai Noodles -- (a thicker noodle than seen in other areas) are but a few of the famous dishes.

I've just touched the surface!

Edited May 5, 2004 by jo-mel (log)

[Singapore]

Mmmmm, not to mention shao lun bao (Shanghai soup dumplings), or de pong (translated roughly means 'sweet fat', which is basically a ham shank or hock, simmered in a mixture of soy sauce, sugar, and wine, sometimes with a chinese preserved vegetable. ) The pork winds up being very tender, flavorful, and can be cut (with the grain) with a spoon.

There's also the Shanghai style Chow Kne Gow, which is compressed rice cake sliced up, soaked, and then stir fried with shredded pork and other chinese vegetables. Dress it with a bit of Chinese dark vinegar and it's damn good eating!

If you live in NY, try the Joe's Shanghai Restaurant in Flushing. I was last there about three years ago, but I still hear good things about the place. There are other branches in NYC, but the Flushing restaurant is rumored to be the best. I think it's still open. It's right across the street from that huge municipal parking deck.

It is authentic? Any good? Put it this way: all of my relatives who are Shanghaiese (including my parents) eat there.

Enjoy. Wish I was there.

[Jason Perlow]

Markk:

I wouldn't hike to Flushing for Shanghainese food. The best Shanghainese restaurant in the entire Tri-State area, China 46, is in Ridgefield. We've had several threads on the place, you should definitely give it a try.

[Gary Soup]

It's a moving target. It depends on the definer, and where it's eaten. It's really a mix of several local cuisines in the Jiangsu-Zhejiang area, and you can find it called Huaiyang, Su-Hang (or Jiang-Zhe), Hu, Jiangnan, all of which have different geographical bounds.

In the US, at least in the Bay Area, Shanghainese restaurants tend to feature home-style belly-pleasers like red-cooked (i.e., soy sauce braised) meats and "squirrel fish" (which is doused with a form of sweet and sour sauce). At home, Shanghai cuisine is much more balanced, with fish, shellfish, chicken, and tofu (in many manifestations) taking prominent roles. Bamboo is also a big part of Shanghai cuisine, as are oddities like kaofu (leavened bran dough), youmianjing (wheat gluten puffs), and, as mentioned, niangao, rice pasta usually stir-fried with napa cabbage and bits of pork, or smothered in pork cutlets for fressers like me.

Veggie-wise, fresh soybeans and fava beans are favored, and leafy vegetables over stalky vegetables. The familiar bok choy is never encountered, but qing cai ("Shanghai bok choy") is an everyday vegetable in many households.

Stylistically, Shanghainese cuisine is cleaner than Cantonese, with the northern dictum of no more than two ingredients in a stir-fry being religiously adhered to. (You won't find many "happy family" dishes on the menus). In general, I'd say Shanghai cuisine is less mushroomy, though dried donggu (Shitakes) are used liberally, as is tree fungus.

[tissue]

I think Shanghai food has more braised dishes and is heartier, takes a lot of labor though. It is also refined. Large quantities of pork fat.

[Singapore]

I wouldn't hike to Flushing for Shanghainese food. The best Shanghainese restaurant in the entire Tri-State area, China 46, is in Ridgefield. We've had several threads on the place, you should definitely give it a try.

Is China 46 the one in a big strip mall, Jason, or is it on Route 46?

Edited May 5, 2004 by Singapore (log)

[Ben Hong]

Shanghainese, Cantonese, Pekinese, Szechuan, Swatow, Hunan, Hakka, Fukien, all regional differences are coloured and shaped by the availability of ingredients, cooking fuels and custom. One region's sweet and sour pork is another's gu lo yuk, one region's twice cooked pork is another's double cooked pork, one region's gou-tee is another's potsticker, etc. You can find homologues of any dish of any region in another region. They may not be EXACTLY the same, but would be similar enough to identify.

And, they are all DELICIOUS.

[jo-mel]

Shanghainese, Cantonese, Pekinese, Szechuan, Swatow, Hunan, Hakka, Fukien, all regional differences are coloured and shaped by the availability of ingredients, cooking fuels and custom. One region's sweet and sour pork is another's gu lo yuk, one region's twice cooked pork is another's double cooked pork, one region's gou-tee is another's potsticker, etc. You can find homologues of any dish of any region in another region. They may not be EXACTLY the same, but would be similar enough to identify.

And, they are all DELICIOUS.

I call it "The meatloaf syndrome". Your meatloaf is different from my meatloaf and the gal next door. All good -- all different -- all meatloaf!