Cooking with "Chocolates and Confections" by Peter Greweling (Part 1)

[Kerry Beal]

I cut them in squares too. But the one time I cut out some different shapes I put the remainders in a bark with some toasted nuts. Also popular.

Edited November 12, 2007 by Kerry Beal (log)

[John DePaula]

Yeah, I thought that might be pretty good. I was thinking that it might make a nice inclusion in some ice cream, too.

My dipping technique has really improved; very VERY thin shell. Though, hand dipping is not a task I'll ever really enjoy...

By the way, I cut them in rectangles, too. But I found that various cutters produced some lovely results, too.

I don't find the Hot Chocolates too sweet at all. But I make them with 70% bittersweet, so...

[tammylc]

My dipping technique has really improved; very VERY thin shell.  Though, hand dipping is not a task I'll ever really enjoy...

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Oh, I hear you on that one!

[lebowits]

My dipping technique has really improved; very VERY thin shell.  Though, hand dipping is not a task I'll ever really enjoy...

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Oh, I hear you on that one!

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Speaking of dipping... Has anyone noticed differences in the viscosity of milk vs dark chocolates at "working" temps? The particular milk chocolate I am using seems to have a much higher viscosity at nearly the same temp.

[tammylc]

That's been my experience as well. The Cluizel milk chocolate is pretty viscous at working temperature, and the white chocolate is even worse.

[lebowits]

That's been my experience as well.  The Cluizel milk chocolate is pretty viscous at working temperature, and the white chocolate is even worse.

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It really makes me wish that folks ONLY loved dark chocolate. I have way too many requests for white chocolate pieces.

[tammylc]

I found the white not too bad for molding, so i'm going to stick to that for white chocolate pieces. But my one attempt at dipping was not happy!

[David J.]

I found the white not too bad for molding, so i'm going to stick to that for white chocolate pieces.  But my one attempt at dipping was not happy!

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Have you tried adding cocoa butter to thin out your dipping chocolate?

[tammylc]

I found the white not too bad for molding, so i'm going to stick to that for white chocolate pieces.  But my one attempt at dipping was not happy!

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Have you tried adding cocoa butter to thin out your dipping chocolate?

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I'll try that if I ever need it. But since I'm really not so fond of dipping, I'll probably just stick with molded pieces for white chocolate.

[Desiderio]

My dipping technique has really improved; very VERY thin shell.  Though, hand dipping is not a task I'll ever really enjoy...

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Oh, I hear you on that one!

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Speaking of dipping... Has anyone noticed differences in the viscosity of milk vs dark chocolates at "working" temps? The particular milk chocolate I am using seems to have a much higher viscosity at nearly the same temp.

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It just depends on what kind of milk chocolate you are using.El rey Caoba is nicely smooth and fluid.The one that I bought this time isnt as fluid as that one.Is like for dark chocolate as well depends on that viscosity.

[tammylc]

So, Grewling is quite obsessive about having chocolate in temper even for ganache, and has really strong cautions against refrigerating ganache, etc. I've been very happy with the texture of the ganaches I've made using his formulas, so I kind of trust the guy. But...

I have a huge volume of chocolates (for me, anyway) to churn out this weekend. And because I wasn't quite expecting such volume, I didn't stock up on extra molds. Which means I'm going to be turning my molds a few times over the weekend. It would be hugely convenient, though, if I could make all my ganache for each flavor at once. But then I'd need to a) store it until I needed it, and b) reheat it to get it to pipe-able consistency.

What are your thoughts? Has anyone done this? Were there any problems? I'd plan to reheat carefully in the microwave, just taking it up to 85 degrees or less.

[John DePaula]

So, Grewling is quite obsessive about having chocolate in temper even for ganache, and has really strong cautions against refrigerating ganache, etc.  I've been very happy with the texture of the ganaches I've made using his formulas, so I kind of trust the guy.  But...

I have a huge volume of chocolates (for me, anyway) to churn out this weekend. And because I wasn't quite expecting such volume, I didn't stock up on extra molds. Which means I'm going to be turning my molds a few times over the weekend. It would be hugely convenient, though, if I could make all my ganache for each flavor at once.  But then I'd need to a) store it until I needed it, and b) reheat it to get it to pipe-able consistency. 

What are your thoughts?  Has anyone done this?  Were there any problems?  I'd plan to reheat carefully in the microwave, just taking it up to 85 degrees or less.

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Tammy, I've considered the same question. I'm sure others will want to weigh-in, too, but here's what I think:

If you make a ganache ahead of time and refrigerate (or freeze), you still need to warm it up to get it back to pipe-able consistency, as you said. To me, the time savings is negligible. Meaning that it takes me almost as long to prep the chilled ganache as it does to just make a new one.

That said, there are a couple of fillings I make that are ok to make ahead e.g. Bananas Foster (doesn't need to be reheated) and Caramel Fleur de sel (reheats quickly and easily). (ETA: These are both non-ganache fillings.)

Still, I like to make only the amount that I need for the days work. I've finally got my recipes balanced for my tray sizes so I have very very little left-over ganache to store. I should probably start saving these little amounts to make that caramel of Wybauw's that has you add all the little left over bits...

Edited December 13, 2007 by John DePaula (log)

[David J.]

What are your thoughts?  Has anyone done this?  Were there any problems?  I'd plan to reheat carefully in the microwave, just taking it up to 85 degrees or less.

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I did this once with a softer ganache and didn't notice any problems. I would think you could make one batch per day and turn the molds a few times without a problem. That way you could keep it at working temperature for a while.

It would probably even hold overnight in the fridge, though as John says it might not pay time wise. Rather it might be better to premeasure ingredients for each batch so you can put it together in just a couple minutes as the shells are setting up.

[John DePaula]

What are your thoughts?  Has anyone done this?  Were there any problems?  I'd plan to reheat carefully in the microwave, just taking it up to 85 degrees or less.

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I did this once with a softer ganache and didn't notice any problems. I would think you could make one batch per day and turn the molds a few times without a problem. That way you could keep it at working temperature for a while.

It would probably even hold overnight in the fridge, though as John says it might not pay time wise. Rather it might be better to premeasure ingredients for each batch so you can put it together in just a couple minutes as the shells are setting up.

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Yeah, I tried this once before when I knew I had a LOT to do. I did all my prep and measuring the day before. The following day, I zippped through about 10 or 12 ganaches in record time.

Be careful that you don't turn the trays too quickly. I think I read that you want them to be in the tray at least 2 hours but preferably 8; otherwise, the finish could be adversely affected.

[Chris Hennes]

So my wife got sick of my current pork belly obsession and figured I should get obsessed with something that she actually likes: so, toward that end, I got a copy of "Chocolates and Confections" for Christmas. As I am completely new to this world, coming from a bread baking and charcuterie background, and as I have no special equipment (I have the standard stuff, but nothing specialized to confections, i.e. no guitar cutter, no molds, no vibrating table, no cute little paintbrushes... ), can you recommend a good place to start? What recipe should an absolute confectionary beginner begin with? (apologies if this has already been covered in this thread... I didn't get any hits on a search for "beginner" or "newbie" or "I'm dumb and want to make wonderful things!")

[tammylc]

Thanks, John and David. I think I'll stick with doing them batch by batch - just seems safer that way, and you make a good point that reheating carefully takes just as much time!

[Kerry Beal]

So my wife got sick of my current pork belly obsession and figured I should get obsessed with something that she actually likes: so, toward that end, I got a copy of "Chocolates and Confections" for Christmas. As I am completely new to this world, coming from a bread baking and charcuterie background, and as I have no special equipment (I have the standard stuff, but nothing specialized to confections, i.e. no guitar cutter, no molds, no vibrating table, no cute little paintbrushes...  ), can you recommend a good place to start? What recipe should an absolute confectionary beginner begin with? (apologies if this has already been covered in this thread... I didn't get any hits on a search for "beginner" or "newbie" or "I'm dumb and want to make wonderful things!")

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Welcome Chris to your next obsession. We will be happy to guide you through.

I'd start with something like the Rochers on page 365. The only complex part is the chocolate tempering, but if you are going to get into chocolate, you'll need to learn that one first anyway.

Then I'd go on to a simple truffle.

Keep us posted.

[KKLL00b]

I was doing a truffle run a few nights ago and had some leftover ganache and tempered chocolate so I decided to attempt a version of Peter Greweling's beehives. My truffle boxes are sized for #3 and #4 candy cups which are on the small side so my beehives would be smaller than Peter's. I first spread tempered chocolate on a marble slab and cut out a series of 3/4" disks. I piped the ganache using a 1/8" diameter tip and made several hive 3- and 4-layers high. After filling and sealing the hives, I dipped them. I found that the tempered chocolate was a bit too thick and did not flow over the hives quickly enough as some of the bases melted through. I also ended up with several 'bigfoot' hives. However, once the chocolate set and we sampled the hives, we were very encouraged. The 3-layer hives did not seem to have enough honey as we did not get the burst of honey flavor as in the 4-layer hives. I would prefer to use 3-layer hives because it takes less overall time for a large run.

Possible improvements for subsequent beehive production include:

1) Using a 1/16" diameter tip to pipe the ganache. Thinner walls will allow more honey to be filled into the hive. If this does not work, I may have to resort to 4-layer or even 5-layer hives (if they don't collapse).

2) Use a less viscous tempered chocolate to enrobe. I will try a different couverture or thin my existing couverture with cocoa butter to allow the chocolate to flow faster over the hives.

3) Use ready-made chocolate disks. This will save lots of time by not having to make my own disks. I will see if any of the pistoles I use are the appropriate size/thickness. I think E.Guittard or Cacao Barry, or Callebaut pistoles may work.

4) Decrease the ambient temperature of the work area. I currently enrobe truffles with the room temperature at about 70 - 72 degrees F, which is a bit warm, but it's a large commercial kitchen with a single air conditioner running at "full blast". I'm trying to figure out a way to create a micro-climate with an temperature of 65 - 68 degrees F. Maybe bringing in a floor standing air conditioner and using one of the smaller storage rooms for enrobing.

5) Practice, practice, practice. Practice does not make perfect. Perfect practice makes perfect.

Hopefully using a thinner couverture and reducing the room temperature will result in beehives with a smaller or no foot at all.

Friends who sampled the hives loved them. One friend has a provisions shop and sells teas, confections, cookies, chocolates, specialties from Dean & Deluca and other sources. We thought it might be interesting to infuse ganache with some of her tea blends and fill the hives with different types of honey. I previously used her Tahitian vanilla/tangerine tea with Cacao Barry 60% Chocolat Amer with fantastic results. I'm looking forward to various making various tea/honey combinations.

In the mean time, I have to finish my run of holiday truffles. I'm expecting a delivery of 10 pounds of Dole Plantations Waialua Estate Chocolate this afternoon and will be working frantically over the weekend and then some to complete my orders.

[Chris Hennes]

Welcome Chris to your next obsession.  We will be happy to guide you through. 

I'd start with something like the Rochers on page 365.  The only complex part is the chocolate tempering, but if you are going to get into chocolate, you'll need to learn that one first anyway.

Then I'd go on to a simple truffle.

Keep us posted.

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Thanks for the suggestion - it is good to start with a little confidence-builder, especially in something as daunting as confections. I am happy to report a success with that recipe:

I do have a question regarding chocolate tempering, though. I used the seeding method, and I think it worked out fine, but I had trouble determining when the chocolate was properly tempered. The book just says "it sets up quickly and is shiny" - my question is, how quickly, and how shiny? Are there different levels of being in temper, or is it an all-or-nothing proposition? I took my time with it and made sure to agitate the chocolate a lot, and I used a thermapen to make sure I was in the temperature ranges specified in the book, but since this was my first time I wasn't sure what exactly I was looking to achieve...

[Kerry Beal]

Welcome Chris to your next obsession.  We will be happy to guide you through. 

I'd start with something like the Rochers on page 365.  The only complex part is the chocolate tempering, but if you are going to get into chocolate, you'll need to learn that one first anyway.

Then I'd go on to a simple truffle.

Keep us posted.

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Thanks for the suggestion - it is good to start with a little confidence-builder, especially in something as daunting as confections. I am happy to report a success with that recipe:

I do have a question regarding chocolate tempering, though. I used the seeding method, and I think it worked out fine, but I had trouble determining when the chocolate was properly tempered. The book just says "it sets up quickly and is shiny" - my question is, how quickly, and how shiny? Are there different levels of being in temper, or is it an all-or-nothing proposition? I took my time with it and made sure to agitate the chocolate a lot, and I used a thermapen to make sure I was in the temperature ranges specified in the book, but since this was my first time I wasn't sure what exactly I was looking to achieve...

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Chris, those look tasty. And the chocolate looks perfect. 10/10 points for your first attempt.

What I do is put the seed in the chocolate, and stir occasionally as it comes down to the working temperature. (29-31º C for dark, 28-30º for milk, 27-29º for white). I spread a little on a bit of parchment or just dip the tip of my small offset spatula in the chocolate, then watch over the next 5 to 10 minutes. Dark sets up fastest. I'm just looking to see if it hardens quickly and when it does firm up that it is glossy, not dusty looking or streaky in any way. It's not going to be shiny, just glossy. Shiny you only get when it sets against a smooth surface.

Your white chocolate will take longer to set up.

Temper reflects the amount of 'good' beta crystals in the mix and being crystals they multiply over time, so I guess you could say there are different levels of temper, all the way from just enough beta crystals to way too many where the chocolate is very thick even at the same temperature, in which case you can push the temperature beyond the typical working temperature, or dilute the crystals with untempered chocolate.

[Chris Hennes]

I spread a little on a bit of parchment or just dip the tip of my small offset spatula in the chocolate, then watch over the next 5 to 10 minutes.  Dark sets up fastest.  I'm just looking to see if it hardens quickly and when it does firm up that it is glossy, not dusty looking or streaky in any way.  It's not going to be shiny, just glossy.  Shiny you only get when it sets against a smooth surface.

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OK, I think that makes sense - especially the times. I used a combination of 60% and 70% to try to arrive at the flavor I was looking for and it set up quite quickly when a spoon was dipped in - maybe 5 minutes, tops. I just wasn't sure if "quickly" was supposed to mean more like 30 seconds, or more like 10 minutes. I suppose like anything it takes practice, and probably a few mistakes, to get a feel for what the correct consistency is. I'm sure my wife will be crushed to hear that I will have to make more chocolates . Thanks for the advice.

[alanamoana]

I spread a little on a bit of parchment or just dip the tip of my small offset spatula in the chocolate, then watch over the next 5 to 10 minutes.  Dark sets up fastest.  I'm just looking to see if it hardens quickly and when it does firm up that it is glossy, not dusty looking or streaky in any way.  It's not going to be shiny, just glossy.  Shiny you only get when it sets against a smooth surface.

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OK, I think that makes sense - especially the times. I used a combination of 60% and 70% to try to arrive at the flavor I was looking for and it set up quite quickly when a spoon was dipped in - maybe 5 minutes, tops. I just wasn't sure if "quickly" was supposed to mean more like 30 seconds, or more like 10 minutes. I suppose like anything it takes practice, and probably a few mistakes, to get a feel for what the correct consistency is. I'm sure my wife will be crushed to hear that I will have to make more chocolates . Thanks for the advice.

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Also, you should take into consideration your environment. Working with chocolate in the winter in a cool and dry environment is usually easier than working in the summer when it is warm and humid. So, your tempered chocolate will set up more quickly now as opposed to eight months from now (in July or August).

Other than that, great work!

[gap]

As a rough guide, if your work area temperature is 18-20 degrees celcius, your chocolate should set in approximately

Dark: 5 mins

Milk: 6 mins

White: 7 mins

if it is properly tempered.

[lapin d'or]

A Praline Melts question-

Today I pulled out a bag of melts that I had left over from a table top sale about three weeks ago. There was a white bloom against some of the rougher edges of the pieces. It made them look really like they had done mouldy.

Now I am sure this is a bloom - most likely sugar bloom but has anyone else seen this?

I was really upset to see it as I had told people at the sale stuff would be fine until Christmas; but you would not want to be given a mouldy looking packge of candy.

I had kept my leftovers in cello bags but in a pretty cold room. The pieces were dusted with a mixure of cocoa powder and a little icing sugar mixed in.

I have some dipped chocolates left over too which have been kept the same way and they still look fine. This really made my heart sink.

Any thoughts on how to avoid this would be really welcome.

lapin

[tammylc]

Thanks, John and David. I think I'll stick with doing them batch by batch - just seems safer that way, and you make a good point that reheating carefully takes just as much time!

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This is what I mostly ended up doing. In a few instances, I had extra ganache, and in those cases I saved that and reheated it, and that worked out just fine.