The Sourdough Starter Topic

[weinoo]

I don't think my starter liked being confined to a Ball jar...

 

 

Edited November 25, 2014 by weinoo (log)

[ElsieD]

I don't think my starter liked being confined to a Ball jar...

 

2014_11 starter.JPG

But on the other hand, you know it's alive!

[cyalexa]

The bread in this pic is a semolina loaf made with commercial yeast but if you look behind the bread you will see my little ball of rye sourdough starter in the jar with the blue lid.

 

 

 

[Anna N]

Success at last?

[weinoo]

Shhhhh...you don't want to jinx it!

 

I knew if anyone could do it, you could, Anna... .

[ElsieD]

Anna, that's a nice looking lively starter you have there!

[Anna N]

Shhhhh...you don't want to jinx it!

 

I knew if anyone could do it, you could, Anna... .

weinoo,

Your vote of confidence means a great deal to me. But let me assure you it is undeserved. This is MAGIC. Try as I might there is no logical explanation why I failed 99 times and on the 100th time succeeded. Only magic can explain odds like that. I switched flours from all-purpose to bread flour and failed time and again to keep the starter alive. I was religious about feeding it daily. Nothing. Then two days ago the plastic wrap that had been loosely draped over it looked rather ratty so I tossed it in the garbage. I had so lost interest in this damn starter that I was not even going to waste another piece of plastic on it. I rested the lid to the Camboro container carelessly on top and walked away. Two days later I have a healthy, vigorous starter. Don't tell me that it's not magic.

[Anna N]

Anna, that's a nice looking lively starter you have there!

I will feed it tonight before bed and again tomorrow morning and then attempt my first loaf of bread before disaster strikes!

[weinoo]

weinoo,

Your vote of confidence means a great deal to me. But let me assure you it is undeserved. This is MAGIC. Try as I might there is no logical explanation why I failed 99 times and on the 100th time succeeded. Only magic can explain odds like that. I switched flours from all-purpose to bread flour and failed time and again to keep the starter alive. I was religious about feeding it daily. Nothing. Then two days ago the plastic wrap that had been loosely draped over it looked rather ratty so I tossed it in the garbage. I had so lost interest in this damn starter that I was not even going to waste another piece of plastic on it. I rested the lid to the Camboro container carelessly on top and walked away. Two days later I have a healthy, vigorous starter. Don't tell me that it's not magic.

Might be a good day to play the lottery, Anna       !

[bethesdabakers]

Really pleased to see this thread is still going.

 

Anna - I was going to suggest you tried a loaf when you posted your previous starter. But there'sno doubt this one's flying - look forward to thebread photos.

 

Best wishes - to you all.

 

Mick

[Anna N]

Might be a good day to play the lottery, Anna       !

Bought my tickets a few hours ago! Dough for my first loaf is resting on the counter. I gave it a first stretch and fold and can already feel structural building. I am going to give it another turn and put it to sleep in the fridge until tomorrow. I am flying without a parachute using one of Mick's formulas combined with Ken Forkish' technique.

[Anna N]

Ta da!

Thanks for all the encouragement.

[Smithy]

Way to go, Anna! That looks like an excellent crumb, too. Did you use the recipe Mick listed some pages back, or something else?

[Anna N]

Way to go, Anna! That looks like an excellent crumb, too. Did you use the recipe Mick listed some pages back, or something else?

I used Mick's proportions veered off in my own direction in terms of procedure.

[pbear]

Congratulations!

[aliénor]

on 24 October 2014 - 02:10 AM

bethesdabakers  wrote a note and posted a worksheet of ingredients for three types of bread. i made the 800gram micks sourdough. it really was wonderful but i think it was too short on salt.  i waited thirty minutes after the first mix before adding the 8 grams of salt .  i personally think it needs at least 15-16grms salt rather than 8 grams.   otherwise the bread went well. took 40 minutes in a preheated gas oven at 410ºF

[bethesdabakers]

Great to see all you people making naturally leavened bread.

 

Generally speaking salt is reckoned as 2.0% of flour weight. In these health conscious days there is a trend to reduce this amount. In this formula the percentage has slipped down to 1.5%. But formulas are just guidelines. If you want to add more salt that's your choice.

 

Just keep baking!

 

Mick

[Anna N]

Thanks for all your help and encouragement Mick. Here is my second naturally leavened loaf. I won't post anymore on this topic unless I run into trouble.

[Smithy]

on 24 October 2014 - 02:10 AM

bethesdabakers  wrote a note and posted a worksheet of ingredients for three types of bread. i made the 800gram micks sourdough. it really was wonderful but i think it was too short on salt.  i waited thirty minutes after the first mix before adding the 8 grams of salt .  i personally think it needs at least 15-16grms salt rather than 8 grams.   otherwise the bread went well. took 40 minutes in a preheated gas oven at 410ºF

Do you mean you mixed the flour, water and starter, let it sit 30 minutes before adding the salt, and then began the knead/rest process? Why the wait? (This question is not intended as criticism; I'm learning about this as we go along.)

[Anna N]

Do you mean you mixed the flour, water and starter, let it sit 30 minutes before adding the salt, and then began the knead/rest process? Why the wait? (This question is not intended as criticism; I'm learning about this as we go along.)

[Smithy]

Thanks for that, Anna.

I've branched out into whole-wheat sourdough territory. The recipe was Mick's Classic Sourdough (from his "Sourdough Made Easy" book); it uses half whole-wheat flour. Our oven chose to go out - as in, quit working - before the loaf was quite finished cooking and before I could add a second loaf that was made with less fermentation time for comparison's sake.

I have to get the temperature of this oven worked out once it's repaired; the bottom of the loaf was tough and almost overcooked while the rest was slightly undercooked. It should have been a bit darker and more done in the center, and I'd like to work out a crisper crust, but it still made fine sandwich bread:

I really like the flavor of this loaf. Thanks, Mick.

[bethesdabakers]

Hi Smithy

 

This is my most basic bread in the sense that, for me, this epitomises what bread should be all about before bits and pieces are added for variety. So I'm pleased you are trying it and I hope you get your oven sorted.

 

When it is, try making a 2 Kilo loaf! I know people on this site are often going for smaller loaves than 800g but reckon a 2K loaf gives you the perfect proportion of crust and crumb for this rustic type of bread. In my oven I would give it 65 minutes. You can quarter it and freeze three parts.

 

Best wishes

 

Mick

[Syzygies]

 
A heads up, if one has an established sourdough starter for making bread, one can easily ferment the batter for Indian dosas. Commercial yeast isn't quite right, and trusting the ingredients alone can be hit or miss. A sourdough starter is already in the ballpark, and works nicely with predictable results.
 
Googling for recipes, note that the ideal fermentation temperature is about 31 C (86 F to 90 F), well below that of a yogurt maker (110 F). One can probably get by with a warmed oven. I have an Anova One immersion circulator, so I rigged a water bath. Not a reason alone to buy one, but tools that take up space need to earn their keep.
 
Note also the add-ins. Standard is urad dal and rice, we ground the urad dal after soaking in a Vita-Prep (much easier to clean than the Indian stone grinder I have in the back shed somewhere). We ground Massa Organics brown rice in the same Wolfgang Mock grain mill we use for flour for baking. Typical add-ins include a bit of fenugreek (actually also a dal), and chana dal (chick peas) to give that restaurant crunch.
 
The pan is a 15" round, 1/4" thick Baking Steel. They will sell 1/2" thick as a special order; Jeffrey Alford and Naomi Duguid for example recommend clay tawas for their thermal stability. Nothing offers the combination of nonstick and browning of a well-seasoned baking steel, and I can compare with more pans than any sensible person should own. Go with 1/2" thick to get the thermal mass, though 1/4" is fine and heats faster.
 
A bit of sourdough starter is plenty to get a dosa batter fermentation going. The wheat is a welcome addition. Six hours may be plenty; like the sourdough starter itself, the batter continues to sour with longer ferments. The usual guidelines to watch expansion of the batter only apply if the batter is thick enough to trap bubbles. A batter thin enough for use without further thinning won't expand while fermenting.

Edited December 13, 2014 by Syzygies (log)

[Smithy]

I've been traveling a lot over the last few months, and my sourdough starter is changing...not for the better. For various reasons I've just been feeding it (equal parts starter, flour, water usually; sometimes 1:2:2: starter, flour, water if I thought I'd get a chance to bake bread.) My starter has been getting thinner and, well, more sour smelling. The thinness surprises me, and I wonder what - if anything - I can do about it. Hooch starts appearing after 3 days, but the smell is pretty strong after only 2 days. I feed it almost every day to avoid the smell and try to keep it boosted to a "normal" (by my experience) viscosity.

I have no control over the water, unless I start using and carrying distilled water. I think the water we started taking on a couple of weeks ago has more dissolved solids and is harder, but I don't have a way to measure it. I haven't been taking pH measurements along the way, but the pH at home (where this starter was born) is around 8.7, so the alkalinity here shouldn't be unusual. The flour - well, I was faithfully using one brand but most recently I've had to explore other brands; all have been unbleached flour but it's possible the variety of wheat was different.

My maintenance has been regular and frequent feeding of the starter, but I've had to step up the rate. I wonder what's going on with it. It's sitting out at room temperature (no room in the refrigerator). Any ideas? Is it dying?

[bethesdabakers]

Hi Smithy
 

I know you say your maintenance has been regular but what you are describing are the classic signs of neglect – not enough food and/or too much heat. If it’s reasonably warm where you are and you are storing it at room temperature you should feed it every day (obviously you can’t be doing that or you wouldn’t know about the smell after two days and the hooch after three).

 

You say you are refreshing at equal parts of starter, water, flour. Is this by volume or weight? If volume, that explains why the starter’s getting thinner although the longer it’s left between feeds the wetter it will get.

 

Frequent changes of location won’t help your starter but it should settle down after a couple of days recovery.

 

Your best bet is to refresh it and insist on some fridge space – you only need to store about 100g. That doesn’t take up much space.

 

Good luck! It’s very hard to kill a starter!

 

Mick