Are Those Really Heirloom Tomatoes?

[Gifted Gourmet]

Since we are all so hyped up about farm-fresh and organic, does anybody ever get the feeling that those heirloom tomatoes touted on the menu might not actually be the real thing? How about claims such as "Kobe" beef, Maine lobster, Alaskan king crab?

How honest do you think menus are?

Words like "organic," "heirloom,""made-from-scratch" and even "fresh" are tossed about with such abandon now that it has me thinking (to myself, of course!) — are we actually getting the genuine article??

Come to think of it, shouldn't I have actually titled this thread "Credible edibles?" ...

[Kim Shook]

I wonder about that with the so called heirloom tomatoes that I see in the gourmet markets. They are beautiful and shapely and interestingly colored, but I honestly don't taste a difference between those and the others that are available at the same time of year.

[johnnyd]

Exagerated marketing gilt really bugs me. Even works against the product and it's provider if I can figure out the ruse or just know better.

This article in the NYTimes yesterday put the Kobe beef problem to bed:

Three Japanese producers received permits from the Agriculture Department. They are in Kagoshima, Miyazaki and Gunma, not in Kobe, so the beef should not be called Kobe.

My first heirloom tomato was gravity-defying. The flavor is truly incredible so I expect an epiphany every time and usually get one. If I don't I put the provider, market or restaurant, in my "bogus" column.

Maine Lobster is tougher because Canadian harvesters fill the void if the season is sucking in Maine. (Fortunately this year, the Maine Lobster catch is way, way up and the prices are lower than in the past three years). There doesn't seem to be much glamour in offering "butter-poached Cape Breton Lobster special!"... yet.

The debate on "grass-fed" is heating up as well:

THE Agriculture Department has proposed allowing animals to be labeled grass-fed even if they never saw a pasture and were fed antibiotics and hormones

[JohnL]

Since we are all so hyped up about farm-fresh and organic, does anybody ever get the feeling that those heirloom tomatoes touted on the menu might not actually be the real thing?  How about claims such as "Kobe" beef, Maine lobster, Alaskan king crab?

How honest do you think menus are?  

Words like "organic," "heirloom,""made-from-scratch" and even "fresh" are tossed about with such abandon now that it has me thinking (to myself, of course!) — are we actually getting the genuine article??

Come to think of it, shouldn't I have actually titled this thread "Credible edibles?" ... 

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Unfortunately, none of these names or designations has much to do with the actual taste of the item.

They are selling the "sizzle" not the "steak."

In fact, the vast majority of the tomatoes labeled "heirloom" that I have sampled are pretty bland and often tasteless.

A tomato's genes seem to have less to do with flavor than the ripeness.

Most every tomato I have eaten in California for eg--regardless of its heritage--was much better than any tomato I have had here in New York. (maybe a year round growing season has something to do with it).

I have had myriad "branded" meats and poultry that are more provenance than flavor.

Organic vs non organic? Nothing conclusive here either.

Grass fed beef?--IMOP corn fed beef is generally more flavorful--simple. We are being sold on the romance and supposed health benefits not the flavor.

What has happened is--we are losing sight of flavor and quality in favor of the "story" behind the food.

Just as we have become label crazy in other areas--now its food labels.

I am tiring of the "romance" of the local farmer we are sold constantly. A crappy tomato is a crappy tomato no matter where it is grown or who grows it or how it is grown.

In a perfect world the "heirloom" tomato grown next door by an "organic" farmer using "biodynamic sustainable" farming techniques, plays Mozart in his fields, who attends church every Sunday and supports the local little league and is socially aware--would taste just heavenly.

Unfortunately, it aint a perfect world!!!!

[cocoagirl]

Since we are all so hyped up about farm-fresh and organic, does anybody ever get the feeling that those heirloom tomatoes touted on the menu might not actually be the real thing?   How about claims such as "Kobe" beef, Maine lobster, Alaskan king crab?

How honest do you think menus are?  

Words like "organic," "heirloom,""made-from-scratch" and even "fresh" are tossed about with such abandon now that it has me thinking (to myself, of course!) — are we actually getting the genuine article??

Come to think of it, shouldn't I have actually titled this thread "Credible edibles?" ...  

←

Unfortunately, none of these names or designations has much to do with the actual taste of the item.

They are selling the "sizzle" not the "steak."

In fact, the vast majority of the tomatoes labeled "heirloom" that I have sampled are pretty bland and often tasteless.

A tomato's genes seem to have less to do with flavor than the ripeness.

Most every tomato I have eaten in California for eg--regardless of its heritage--was much better than any tomato I have had here in New York. (maybe a year round growing season has something to do with it).

I have had myriad "branded" meats and poultry that are more provenance than flavor.

Organic vs non organic? Nothing conclusive here either.

Grass fed beef?--IMOP corn fed beef is generally more flavorful--simple. We are being sold on the romance and supposed health benefits not the flavor.

What has happened is--we are losing sight of flavor and quality in favor of the "story" behind the food.

Just as we have become label crazy in other areas--now its food labels.

I am tiring of the "romance" of the local farmer we are sold constantly. A crappy tomato is a crappy tomato no matter where it is grown or who grows it or how it is grown.

In a perfect world the "heirloom" tomato grown next door by an "organic" farmer using "biodynamic sustainable" farming techniques, plays Mozart in his fields, who attends church every Sunday and supports the local little league and is socially aware--would taste just heavenly.

Unfortunately, it aint a perfect world!!!!

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here here- I have bent to several "wonderful" farmer's market in the DC area- their tomatoes are no better than my local groecery store in taste- IMO- at least this year!

[barritz]

The debate on "grass-fed" is heating up as well:

THE Agriculture Department has proposed allowing animals to be labeled grass-fed even if they never saw a pasture and were fed antibiotics and hormones

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I'm angry too, but not surprised. The USDA seem very comfortable inventing their own definitions and classifications. Did you know they classify rabbits as poultry? Here's more USDA fun...

http://www.hsus.org/farm_animals/farm_anim..._out_there.html

[Gifted Gourmet]

The law deemed only two slaughter methods humane: ritualistic or religious slaughter (such as the Jewish Kosher method),

which is what our Jewish forefathers decreed so long ago ... sometimes what's old is new again, as the saying goes ...

[poutine]

Here's a link to a grower of organic tomatoes. The text is in French but the pictures speak for themselves. Monsieur Plante's heirloom tomatoes

I visited his kiosk in the Jean Talon Market (Friday to Sunday only) & he sells assorted varieties in "pints" 2 for $5 - you get about 12-15 tomatoes & after consuming my fair share I fully understand why tomatoes are classified as fruit. I think I'm in love with M. Plante!

[russ parsons]

1) "heirloom" refers to variety, not quality. just because a variety has been around for a long time (or even just because it has the potential to be great) doesn't mean that the tomato will be great. farming is a talent. fruits and vegetables are grown, not manufactured.

2) re: grassfed beef. "grassfed" is not the bovine equivalent of "free-range." It simply means the cattle have been fed on grass, not on grain. It does not differentiate between whether that grass is green and growing on a sun-dappled hillside, or dried and cut in bales (indeed, there are few places in the world where green grass grows year-round).

3) rabbit has been considered poultry for centuries. it probably dates back to original growing conditions--just like chickens, in backyard pens.

[JohnL]

1) "heirloom" refers to variety, not quality. just because a variety has been around for a long time (or even just because it has the potential to be great) doesn't mean that the tomato will be great. farming is a talent. fruits and vegetables are grown, not manufactured.

2) re: grassfed beef. "grassfed" is not the bovine equivalent of "free-range." It simply means the cattle have been fed on grass, not on grain. It does not differentiate between whether that grass is green and growing on a sun-dappled hillside, or dried and cut in bales (indeed, there are few places in the world where green grass grows year-round).

3) rabbit has been considered poultry for centuries. it probably dates back to original growing conditions--just like chickens, in backyard pens.

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Russ

Thanks for injecting some sanity here.

IMOP--the issue of production of food has been "hijacked" by those wishing to sell it to us

and by those who have a political agenda--be it environmental or health.

terms have been used by these entities to a degree that they have lost much of their original meaning.

Organizations like the USDA have been misunderstood and criticized. Look at the angst over the grass fed issue and antibiotics etc. the reality does not warrant the hysteria. (it rarely does).

My concern is that it is no longer about producing good food at reasonable prices.

We should be celebrating quality--stuff that tastes good.

We should be celebrating artisinal products and their producers who have achieved a level of excellence in producing, getting to market and selling high quality items for us to enjoy.

The debates and discussions have lost any real perspective. There is no longer any common sense at play.

How does one engage in rational discussion with someone who puts a lobster or a chicken on equal footing with a human being?

Passion and emotion have taken over--witness the absurdity of the fois gras bans. Scientific evidence is ignored if it runs counter to your beliefs (it is too hard to change one's beliefs anymore) or touted if it supports your beliefs and theories.

Food production is not so simple--neither are the issues.

Last week I bought a couple of locally grown "heirloom" tomatoes that were basically tasteless. I went back to the store and purchased some perfectly round hot house tomatoes in a plastic container that were grown in Canada--while not optimum, these tomatoes were clearly more tasty and better. (and cheaper).

In the end--I know what I like--flavor is what counts. I try to taste blind--to production techniques and political positions to confused terms like free range and grass fed--if it tastes good I will buy it. I will celebrate the people who produce and sell good tasting food!

[jsolomon]

I have had myriad "branded" meats and poultry that are more provenance than flavor.

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I hope you recognize the pun in there, tenderfoot.

[Toliver]

Since we are all so hyped up about farm-fresh and organic, does anybody ever get the feeling that those heirloom tomatoes touted on the menu might not actually be the real thing?  How about claims such as "Kobe" beef, Maine lobster, Alaskan king crab?

How honest do you think menus are?  

Words like "organic," "heirloom,""made-from-scratch" and even "fresh" are tossed about with such abandon now that it has me thinking (to myself, of course!) — are we actually getting the genuine article??

Come to think of it, shouldn't I have actually titled this thread "Credible edibles?" ... 

←

Getting back on topic, whether it's on a menu or being sold in my grocery store, as a consumer I assume if it's being advertised as something specific then it is what it says it is. I guess that makes me an optimist (or at least I hope it does ) to assume that the laws and guidelines concerning food descriptions, labels and advertising are being followed by retailers and restaurants.

Now whether calling something "grasssfed" or "heirloom" is supposed to carry some sort of significance when it actually means something else entirely, as others have pointed out, is a very different argument (and discussion) and really has nothing to do with honesty and more to do with perception.

[Bill Miller]

The law deemed only two slaughter methods humane: ritualistic or religious slaughter (such as the Jewish Kosher method),

which is what our Jewish forefathers decreed so long ago ... sometimes what's old is new again, as the saying goes ...

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It's hard to get a good heirloom tomato in the market--short shelf life and they don't travel well. The ones I grow at home are really remarkable---major flavor, color, texture--they only travel 50 feet and are gone in a day or two. Yes, there is a difference.

[chezcherie]

i optimistically ordered an "heirloom tomato salad" ($12!) at a new place we tried last night. figured, well, it's nearly august--let's see what they got. sigh. the tomatoes were certainly not heirloom varieties--beefsteak at best...and they were crisp. (i cannot abide a pink, crispy tomato!)...well, there were two slices of yellow tomato...but if that one was "heirloom", i'll eat....that tomato. very disappointing. taught me to remember to be skeptical!

[purplewiz]

A local restaurant, no longer in business as the same place (they kept the name, changed everything else), used to have a "Kobe beef" hamburger on the menu for $7.99 (included fries).

Needless to say, I wasn't buying it. Or ordering it.

I agree with the earlier comment that the variety of the tomato doesn't matter if it isn't ripe. I've gotten amazing results with boring old grocery store tomatoes just by bringing them home and letting them sit on the counter in a bowl with the bananas for a couple of days. Unripe heirloom tomatoes are just as tasteless as unripe non-heirloom. And I'll take my homegrown whatever they are tomatoes over both of 'em.

I take all menu hype with a large dash of salt. My bottom line is: is the dish good? The rest is all marketing.

Marcia.

[SeanDirty]

Since we are all so hyped up about farm-fresh and organic, does anybody ever get the feeling that those heirloom tomatoes touted on the menu might not actually be the real thing?  How about claims such as "Kobe" beef, Maine lobster, Alaskan king crab?

How honest do you think menus are?  

Words like "organic," "heirloom,""made-from-scratch" and even "fresh" are tossed about with such abandon now that it has me thinking (to myself, of course!) — are we actually getting the genuine article??

Come to think of it, shouldn't I have actually titled this thread "Credible edibles?" ... 

←

Just FYI this is my first ever Post on Egullet!

Anyways, i am a CiA Graduate and i am all about produce, restaurants, food, ect..... Anyways to answer this question correctly. There is such a thing as "Truth in Menu" Laws

((Mills, J. E. & Clay, J. M. (2001). The Truth-in-Menu Law and Restaurant Consumers. Foodservice Research International, 13, 69-82. ))

Here is a Link to "highlight" the points of it. http://www.globalchefs.com/career/showcase/coj010tru.htm

Kobe Beef, which the chef at Old Homestead, has started to serve not so long ago, has told me that there are certain quantities are alotted to each area, so in turn that would mean that only X amount of restaurants would receive X quantity.

Alaskan King crab.... If you dont know what it looks like you should NOT be ordering it.... Opillio, King, and Spider Crabs Look Different, Claws are different, patterns on the crabs are slightly different... I know most everyday foodies have no way of telling, but I am a fish purveyor, so i have seen them all side by side. Anothor tell would be, Price. King crab prices are the most expensive, so if you see "king crab" and the price is outragously low, then you may be getting Opillio, or Spider Crabs...

This is anothor good tip whenever you see speciality items such as "WILD alaskan king salmon" Now this item is usually an expensive item.... During the off season this item can get up to around $11 per pound (Fresh Fish) So once Yield is taken into account this fish can get to around $15 Per pound Net Weight. So translate that to plate and you have a 7.50 per 8oz portion, without labor, and other garnish's (eg.. Sauce). So if you have a plate of Alaskan king salmon (wild) for under... 25$ more then likly you have a Farmed king salmon, or Frozen product, so again Truth in Menu Laws, BUYER BEWARE. Also Organic fish, there are NO FDA standards for the labling of Organic fish. The fish may be fed Organic feed, but there are no such fish yet.... We cannot control the chemicals in the oceans!

As for the Main Lobster, Lobsters come from many places, You cannot tell where, I cant tell where, Only the buyer knows. If i get a Maine lobster, i can say it comes from Canada and no one is wiser. Really none of this makes a difference. Lobster quality comes from its shell, and slightly area of production. But we will talk more about the shell.

Soft--- Cheepest lobsters

Medium Shell--- Medium price

Hard Shell-- Supermarkets will have these (best for lobsters)

All the other lobsters have a very short shelflife the Hardshells will live the longest, due to their harder shells, (sensitivity to tempreture)

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~~~~"Heirloom is a term for an original strain, or Non-hybrid plants. "~~~~

(Heirloom does not determine Quality or taste of such fruits or veg. An Heirloom fruit of veg. could look completly different from your Genetically modified foods, such as your normal red round tomato, to your red delicious apple. Heirloom simply specifies it is an original strain, of course the laws on produce are very very vauge and everyone finds loopholes to move thier good products and call them heirloom, and at the same time, their crap product, still calling it heirloom.)

Now terms such as Heirloom and Fresh, and, made from scratch. As i said before for "Heirloom", there must be some truth to every lie, what i mean by this is, the entire "Heirloom tomato salad" could be comprised entirly of plum tomatoes, and have 1 heirloom slice in it.... but then again, the restaurant would more then likly crash and burn if they did such an act. Fresh, and scratch, and hand chopped, ect.... could be true could be out of a tub (pre-made in case of emergencies), you would never know, some restaurants use words like those just to spruce up a menu, while others actually use such items, hand chop their meat, use this technique as a selling point, and to spruce up their menu. You would never know.

Now if they only labled some of their items as "previously droped on the floor" then i would have a problem.

Gosh i hope this was alittle informational. Ill try to be more specific and to the point next time.

Oh and P.S. My fish Buyer says BUY TRIPPLE TAIL, its a fish that most of the times comes from the Amazon, it has 3 tails.... red eyes. tastes like grouper, and holds together very well. Grand central will have some. Thanks!

[suseyblue]

i optimistically ordered an "heirloom tomato salad" ($12!) at a new place we tried last night. figured, well, it's nearly august--let's see what they got. sigh. the tomatoes were certainly not heirloom varieties--beefsteak at best...and they were crisp. (i cannot abide a pink, crispy tomato!)...well, there were two slices of yellow tomato...but if that one was "heirloom", i'll eat....that tomato. very disappointing. taught me to remember to be skeptical!

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As Russ said, all heirloom refers to is variety. Generally, non-hybrid varieties that have been around for awhile (I would argue Pink Beefsteak IS an heirloom. You just didn't get a good one!)

Here's a good book to peruse if you want a tomato expert's recommendations for varieties to choose from:http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0761114009/104-4673141-8046300?v=glance&n=283155

We gardeners respect Carolyn very much.

Edited July 29, 2006 by suseyblue (log)

[jayt90]

Since we are all so hyped up about farm-fresh and organic, does anybody ever get the feeling that those heirloom tomatoes touted on the menu might not actually be the real thing?  How about claims such as "Kobe" beef, Maine lobster, Alaskan king crab?

How honest do you think menus are?  

Words like "organic," "heirloom,""made-from-scratch" and even "fresh" are tossed about with such abandon now that it has me thinking (to myself, of course!) — are we actually getting the genuine article??

Come to think of it, shouldn't I have actually titled this thread "Credible edibles?" ... 

←

Brand names, even if not advertised. Is Alaskan better than Russian, or B.C.?

[KatieLoeb]

Interesting article about Heirloom Tomatoes in this week's Philadelphia Inquirer.

A couple of good recipes too...

[johnnyd]

Maine Takes Aim at "Imposter" Lobsters - August 1, 2006 - WCSH6.com, Portland, Maine

The Maine Lobster Promotion Council says often times lobsters are labeled as being from Maine, but are from Canada or other New England states.

They say this program will ensure the Maine lobster "brand" and preserve its premium pricing for Maine lobstermen.

...and covering the same story is MaineToday.com - includes spirited commentary from readers.

Edited August 1, 2006 by johnnyd (log)

[Chanterelle]

Is the claim of "heirloom" more hype than reality? Depends on the restaurant, of course--I usually cock a skeptical eyebrow at that particular menu claim. But vividly delicious heirloom tomatoes do exist, oh my yes. Every Friday morning this time of year I race to visit one particular vendor among the dozen or so purveyors at my neighborhood Manhattan Greenmarket. These guys sell organic produce at prices that usually are a little rich for my blood, but when the heirloom tomatoes come in I completely lose control. Green, purple, copper, gold, pink, red-and-yellow striped, mammoth, tiny, pear-shaped, flattened, globe, gnarled...These babies taste so wonderful, each variety with its own distinct flavor--sweet, tangy, floral, fruity. The crop changes throughout tomato season, as each variety has its brief moment in the sun. Since finding these guys I'm forever spoiled for the "normal" tomatoes of August that used to be my gold standard. And this year I'm hovering over the two tomato plants I bought from these guys in the spring, though I doubt the fruits will taste as wonderful as the ones I buy at the farm stand.

[Kevin72]

I was considering making a topic for this after being disappointed yet again by the heirlooms we've been getting at our local gourmet shop. Yellow and orange ones seem to be particularly flavorless.

I decided to re-evaluate my own suppositions of heirloom tomatoes when they were still being sold at Christmas last year . . .

[sadistick]

After exposure to real heirloom tomatoes, one should be able to tell a genuine from a fake, simply by looks, and definetly by taste.

If I ordered something with heirloom tomatoes at a restaurant, and it was clearly not, I would send it back without hesitation (not sure why people dont do this)

Lets not forget, lots of greenhouses grow heirloom tomatoes year round, so supply is available.

I suggest to all of you to GROW your own heirloom tomatoes (seeds are VERY cheap!) this year I have 18 plants, all various types, some new, some old favourites. This year I have these gorgeous pink ones with the oddest shape, some orange/green ones that entrance you with spiraling colours. I will try to remember to take some shots once this 45 degree heat wave passes by.

[russ parsons]

After exposure to real heirloom tomatoes, one should be able to tell a genuine from a fake, simply by looks, and definetly by taste.

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would that things were really this easy. in fact, you can usually tell an heirloom tomato by looks, but whether a tomato is an heirloom variety is only part of the equation that leads to great flavor. and a fairly small part at that. it all comes down to farming. i've said it before: agriculture is not manufacturing and varieties are not brand names. buying a "Brandywine" tomato is not a guarantee of quality, though a Brandywine grown by a good farmer is certainly a wonderful tomato (one of my favorites, in fact!). it used to be, 5 or 6 years ago, that "heirloom" meant more, because the only farmers who were growing them were passionate about tomatoes. but once they hit the mainstream, it became a crapshoot.

this has been a tough summer so far for tomatoes in california, and actually the best luck i've had has been with little cherry tomatoes from trader joe's.

[Dominic]

It is very simple.....you have to trust the restaurant and the chef that is selling you that heirloom tomato or grass fed beef.

As a chef and restaurant owner I do buy those items as well as eggs from an heirloom breed of chicken that lay blue eggs.

I trust the local farmers that I buy from, I visit those farms, I see what they are doing. My customers trust me because I trust them.

And, if you can't tell the difference between Heirloom tomatoes and regular then just buy canned. Same with grass fed beef. Even grass fed that is finished on corn for 30 or 120 days. Any animal that had been grazing will show yellow in the fat. They have consumed a lot more Niacin and you can taste it! It will not eat as soft as an animal raised in the fed lots but it will have more flavor or a different flavor, depending upon if you like that increased niacin. And again, I say if you can't tell the difference then don't bother wasting your money...save the good stuff for the rest of us.

There is a difference and it is worth the extra effort and money!