Edge Pro Apex Knife Sharpener

scubadoo97 · March 4, 2006

I just got my Edge Pro Apex knife sharpener in a week ago after reading the thread on how to sharpen knifes. I just didn't trust my hand at a wet stone to get a consistent edge. Even though the price was steep I can say after one afternoon with it that it is worth every penny.

I use to think my knifes were sharp. Highly recommend it

Chad · March 5, 2006

Glad you like it! The EdgePro is a pretty nifty piece of hardware. It still takes some practice, but as you've discovered, it is possible to get your knives significantly sharper than the factory edge with just a little effort. It doesn't hurt that Ben Dale, the inventor of the EdgePro is a good guy -- very easy to deal with and willing to answer any questions you might have.

Take care,

Chad

C. sapidus · March 5, 2006

I’ll second (third, fourth, twentieth) praise for the Edge Pro and for Chad’s sharpening tutorial. Reading the tutorial provided the impetus to sharpen our 20-year old Chicago Cutlery assortment, and the difference is amazing. Unfortunately, the knives aren’t holding their edge terribly well. After a week of fairly intensive home cooking, the chef's knife feels like it needs to be sharpened again.

I use a chef’s knife 90% of the time, so if we have any money left over after tax season this may be a good time to upgrade. I’ve been doing a little research, and a 240 mm gyuto seems like just the thing. Hattori HD, Ryusen Blazen, or Tojiro Powdered Steel look pretty sweet, but I need to find a place that I can try them out in person. Anyone know of any good knife stores in the Washington DC area?

Bruce

Chad · March 5, 2006

I’ll second (third, fourth, twentieth) praise for the Edge Pro and for Chad’s sharpening tutorial. Reading the tutorial provided the impetus to sharpen our 20-year old Chicago Cutlery assortment, and the difference is amazing. Unfortunately, the knives aren’t holding their edge terribly well. After a week of fairly intensive home cooking, the chef's knife feels like it needs to be sharpened again.
I use a chef’s knife 90% of the time, so if we have any money left over after tax season this may be a good time to upgrade. I’ve been doing a little research, and a 240 mm gyuto seems like just the thing. Hattori HD, Ryusen Blazen, or Tojiro Powdered Steel look pretty sweet, but I need to find a place that I can try them out in person. Anyone know of any good knife stores in the Washington DC area?
Bruce
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The Hattori HD (actually made by Ryusen) is the current favorite in my rack. The VG10 steel has a toothy edge that makes it a real performer in the kitchen. I like it a lot. And if you buy from a place like JapaneseChefsKnife.com, they're reasonably priced.

As for your knife not holding its edge, it could just be that the edge is rolled. A freshly sharpened edge will last a lot longer than a week -- unless, of course, you have a wire edge that wasn't properly removed during sharpening. That will actually crumble in very short order. Anyway, many times you still have a sharp edge, it just isn't pointing straight down. That's where your steel comes into play. Use the steeling technique in the tutorial and see if that doesn't realign your edge.

Take care,

Chad

Joe Blowe · March 5, 2006

I hate to hijack a thread, but does anyone here have any input on the Tormek Sharpening System? The first time I saw it used was on an episode of Norm Abrams' Yankee Workshop. Handles everything from chisels to chef's knives, depending on the jig you have on hand. Pretty spendy though...

I've seen the EdgePro in action at my local, umm, "outdoor" store. It also seems like a decent bit of kit. I'm just wondering if there's more room for error when using something more "manual" like the EdgePro.

scubadoo97 · March 5, 2006

JapaneseChefsKnife.com, they're reasonably priced.
As for your knife not holding its edge, it could just be that the edge is rolled. A freshly sharpened edge will last a lot longer than a week -- unless, of course, you have a wire edge that wasn't properly removed during sharpening. That will actually crumble in very short order. Anyway, many times you still have a sharp edge, it just isn't pointing straight down. That's where your steel comes into play. Use the steeling technique in the tutorial and see if that doesn't realign your edge.
Take care,
Chad
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In the video the steel that is recommended is a smooth steel. I have never seen one in kitchen stores. I always see the grooved "butcher's steel". My Edge Pro kit came with a ceramic steel which I use with very little if any pressure prior to using my knifes. I took a set of stamped knifes I was going to let my son take to college and used them first as my test subjects prior to sharpening my 4 stars. I've been using this cheap chef's knife for the last week and it is awesome how well it can cuts things paper thin.

Jmahl · March 5, 2006

Here is a link to the EdgePro System.

Looks good,

Jmahl

pounce · March 5, 2006

Here is a link to the actual company and not a reseller.

http://www.edgeproinc.com/

Prices at dealers may or may not be better.

pyrguy · March 6, 2006

Here is a link to Hand America They make several types of Steels, including glass and ceramic.

I have a couple of their products and find them well made and good people.

I have no interest in this company other than a consumer.

Edited March 6, 2006 by pyrguy (log)

scubadoo97 · March 6, 2006

Thanks for the link pyrguy. I have not be able to find a smooth steel. Very interesting site. I like the idea of the cradle for the steel so you can more carefully keep a constant angle.

k43 · March 6, 2006

I love my Hand America 14" smooth steel. I touch up my knives with a couple of strokes on a smooth ceramic rod and then couple more on the steel for an amazing edge. The smooth steel does things you can't get with a grooved steel.

I tend to use big knives -- 10" butcher, chinese cleaver -- and the 14" is significantly easier to use than the 10" one for those. It comes with a free half-collar to hold it horizontally (remember to check the box when you order), but I just rest the end on the counter and swipe the knife down.

Shipping was a bit slow -- a month -- but it was worth it to get the steel.

C. sapidus · March 7, 2006

Chad - Thanks for the recommendation on the Hattori HD and the steeling advice. Does a rolled edge feel like a burr? One side of the chef's knife felt like it had a burr, so I ran it over the steel a few times and it felt much smoother. I'll be chopping up some veggies tomorrow, so we will see how the edge holds up.

Chad · March 7, 2006

Chad - Thanks for the recommendation on the Hattori HD and the steeling advice. Does a rolled edge feel like a burr? One side of the chef's knife felt like it had a burr, so I ran it over the steel a few times and it felt much smoother. I'll be chopping up some veggies tomorrow, so we will see how the edge holds up.
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Yup, if the edge has rolled far enough it can indeed feel like a burr. Slight rolling is a little trickier to detect, but the effect is exactly the same. I'm eager to hear your results. I suspect that after hard use your edge had just rolled a little and is now back in shape, especially if you used the Paper Airplane Trick to keep your angle steady.

In the video the steel that is recommended is a smooth steel. I have never seen one in kitchen stores. I always see the grooved "butcher's steel". My Edge Pro kit came with a ceramic steel which I use with very little if any pressure prior to using my knifes. I took a set of stamped knifes I was going to let my son take to college and used them first as my test subjects prior to sharpening my 4 stars. I've been using this cheap chef's knife for the last week and it is awesome how well it can cuts things paper thin.
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In order of preference -- ceramic steel, smooth steel, and a very distant third the grooved steel that comes with most knife blocks. If you have a ceramic steel, by all means use it.

My reasoning is open to debate, but here's how I see it: when an edge rolls, the metal can become weak from flexing, being too thin or being weakened by the general hard use that caused it to roll in the first place. This is absolutely natural. Knife edges are designed to concentrate tremendous force into a very narrow area. That's why they work. A ceramic steel, by nature of its very fine abrasive, will remove the weakest bits of metal while realigning the edge. This is really a very mild sharpening pass, creating what is in effect a fresh micro-edge. A smooth steel will push the edge back into shape without removing the weak spots, resulting in a sharp, albeit slightly weaker edge. A grooved steel, unless used with an extremely light touch, is significantly more aggressive than either of the other types of steel. It will chip off the weaker metal and jam the rest of the edge back into a semblance of alignment -- resulting in what is essentially a serrated edge. I'm exaggerating a bit for effect, but not by much.

So if you have a fine grit ceramic steel use it. If you have a glass smooth steel from Hand America, use it -- just be aware that your edge may be slightly weaker and require a little fussier maintenance schedule. If you have a grooved steel that came with your knife block . . . well, if you have the means to obtain either of the other two, give it to your neighbor or brother-in-law. If not, use it very, very lightly, paying strict attention to maintaining a consistent angle and smooth draw stroke.

In the meantime, I'm in contact with an engineering/metallurgy professor who has studied these sorts of things under a scanning electron microscope. I'm hoping he can either confirm my theories or provide another avenue of exploration to follow. Given my own testing (sans microscope, of course), I'm pretty confident.

Take care,

Chad

pyrguy · March 7, 2006

Shipping was a bit slow -- a month -- but it was worth it to get the steel.
←

I ordered a leather hone from them. It also took about a month but they threw in both a smooth steel and a ceramic steel.

Made for a real happy camper. :biggrin:

I also keep a ultra-fine diamond "steel" for when the other two need a little help.

Mayhaw Man · March 7, 2006

The Hattori HD (actually made by Ryusen) is the current favorite in my rack. The VG10 steel has a toothy edge that makes it a real performer in the kitchen. I like it a lot. And if you buy from a place like JapaneseChefsKnife.com, they're reasonably priced.
←

A really good friend of mine, someone who really knows from knives, gave me one of these things this weekend after seeing the state of my otherwise very nice set of kitchen blades (I wouldn't say that they were dull, I mean, with the right amount of sawing I was coming out with nicely crushed tomatoes-and hey! They sell crushed tomatoes in the store. So how could that be bad? I ask you?).

Anyway, that thing is pretty sweet, and even though until Saturday I had never heard of one, I'm all over it now. I'll be badder than that Chef guy on the Ginsu commercial.

Now all I have to do is stop on the way home and buy some cokes, so that I'll have a few cans to test them out on.

And a block of wood.

And maybe a brick, just to see if they stay sharp after punishing use.

:wink:

slkinsey · March 7, 2006

In order of preference -- ceramic steel, smooth steel, and a very distant third the grooved steel that comes with most knife blocks. If you have a ceramic steel, by all means use it.

The one thing that I like about the smooth steel (I have both a smooth steel and an ultrafine grit ceramic) is that you can use the smooth steel without worrying that you might screw something up. So it's nice for when you just want to give the knife a few casual passes on the steel without thinking about it too much.

ray goud · March 8, 2006

WOW!

That thing has more parts than my kitchen!

You want sharp knives, you learn how to do it the Jacques Pepin way, by hand with a bench stone, or a diamond stone (one of the TRUE worthwhile recent innovations). One could buy a bunch of full-size water or ceramic stones, or a double bunch of diamond stones for the price of that thing. I am a furniture-maker, self-taught, and I learned many years ago that it takes less than a tenth of the time to hand-sharpen anything as compared to a fixture or jig. Check to see if Jacques has a video available from his TV series on the basics of cooking. The sense of empowerment and satisfaction (and superbly sharp knives) is unattainable any other way. One can learn it ten minutes.

Pardon me for spouting, but all the gizmos like this is one of my pet peeves.

Ray

Chad · March 8, 2006

In order of preference -- ceramic steel, smooth steel, and a very distant third the grooved steel that comes with most knife blocks. If you have a ceramic steel, by all means use it.
The one thing that I like about the smooth steel (I have both a smooth steel and an ultrafine grit ceramic) is that you can use the smooth steel without worrying that you might screw something up. So it's nice for when you just want to give the knife a few casual passes on the steel without thinking about it too much.
←

You make a good point, Sam. There are times when I use my smooth steel for about the same reason. I revert to the smooth steel when the ceramic isn't doing the trick. It seems that the smooth steel is a little more forgiving, so if I'm in a hurry (which in my case translates to an inconsistent angle, inconsistent pressure or just sloppy technique) the smooth steel works better. When I can take a little more time and focus a little better, the ceramic leaves a longer lasting touch-up edge.

Take care,

Chad

Chad · March 8, 2006

WOW!
That thing has more parts than my kitchen!
You want sharp knives, you learn how to do it the Jacques Pepin way, by hand with a bench stone, or a diamond stone (one of the TRUE worthwhile recent innovations). One could buy a bunch of full-size water or ceramic stones, or a double bunch of diamond stones for the price of that thing. I am a furniture-maker, self-taught, and I learned many years ago that it takes less than a tenth of the time to hand-sharpen anything as compared to a fixture or jig. Check to see if Jacques has a video available from his TV series on the basics of cooking. The sense of empowerment and satisfaction (and superbly sharp knives) is unattainable any other way. One can learn it ten minutes.
Pardon me for spouting, but all the gizmos like this is one of my pet peeves.
Ray
←

Ray, welcome to eGullet.

The EdgePro may seem like another overly complicated kitchen gadget, but in this case it does do something that freehanding alone can't -- give you a consistent, repeatable angle without years of practice. I'm one of the first to deplore gadgetitis -- the unnecessary accumulation of stuff that is supposed to make life easier in the kitchen by replacing skill with pseudo-technology. And nowhere is gadgetitis more rampant than in the multitude of knife sharpneners available. There's an old saying among kitchen gadget salesmen: if it doesn't sell, call it a knife sharpener and you won't be able to keep 'em in stock. Everyone is looking for that silver bullet.

Well, me too. I've spent the last several years researching this stuff. I have every knife sharpening tool and gadget on the market and each has been used, abused and thoroughly tested. I also have hand-hewn Japanese waterstones that I use when I have the free time and a need to meditatively sharpen my knives.

The art of freehand sharpening is dying. And even when it was prevalent, there were very few people who were really adept at it. It was just all we had at the time. And as much respect as I have for Jacques Pepin (and I have everything he has ever written), his knife sharpening advice is just plain wrong. It is outdated, outmoded and even when it was current was only applicable to a select few people who had truly mastered the art of sharpening. And, no, most chefs of the day hadn't. Their knives were as dull as those in most professional kitchens today.

Because of that sad state of affairs, most amateur cooks are intimidated by their knives. They are afraid of them when they are sharp and annoyed with them when they're dull. They're more comfortable with dull because freehand sharpening is held up as some sort of black art. Cooking schools, gourmet magazines and Food Network shows all parrot the same garbage -- sharpening knives is too hard and home cooks should send their knives out to "professionals" to be sharpened once a year.

That is why I wrote the Knife Sharpening & Maintenance tutorial for eGullet -- to clear up some of the misconceptions and give folks a solid understanding of what happens when you sharpen knives. It's not perfect, but its a start.

In the meantime, the EdgePro gives even a novice sharpener a fighting chance at achieving a good edge -- better than most "professional" knife sharpeners deliver -- with a moderate investment and some practice. Is it perfect? No. But its better than anything else out there. And for 99% of the population, better and much easier than freehand.

Take care,

Chad

Chris Amirault · March 8, 2006

I think Chad hit the nail on the head. I've got the EdgePro and it's fantastic. I had taken my knives to all manner of injurious cretins, and I realized that I was paying people to ruin the most important things in my kitchen. But I'm an injurious cretin myself, so the thought of learning how to freehand seemed even worse.

The EdgePro is not at all an overly complicated gadget. It's actually really simple once you learn how to set up the edge guides. More importantly, I feel like I understand my knives much better than I ever did, in large part thanks to Chad's course linked above. Finally, as Chad mentions, the intimidation associated with the entire process is long gone.

I also save bags of cash. Not to mention the knives themselves.

Mayhaw Man · March 8, 2006

Also, I have one of these bad boys, The Ultimate Edge Professional 12"X3/4" 600 Grit Diamond Steel, and it will pretty much do the trick on knives that just need a few quick whacks in order to put them to use in surgery or cutting fine slices of anything you might want to cut fine slices of. They are reasonably priced and last for a good while under normal conditions.

KennethT · February 24, 2021

Bumping this old thread - has anyone used this competitor to Edge Pro?

https://wasabi-knives.com/collections/accessories

EMichels · February 24, 2021

19 minutes ago, KennethT said:

Bumping this old thread - has anyone used this competitor to Edge Pro?

https://wasabi-knives.com/collections/accessories

You don't note whether you have previously used the EdgePro. Looking at the Wasabi, I note a couple of things different from the EdgePro. First, it would appear that the only way to use it would be to clamp the knife, which is done by way of two allen screws, which strikes me as likely quite secure but a bit fiddly. I have found on the EdgePro that I tend to simply hold the knife by the handle against the base (not clamping it as intended) as I can then quickly run through multiple knives before changing out the stone. It also allows me to easily reposition longer knives for a better angle against the stone. I find this to save me a bunch of time versus running through the range of stones on each knife and then starting over again on the next knife. Also, I've found that the clamp can capture some of the swarth and scratch the knife. Second, it might just be me but I would not be excited about having the blade protruding out from the edge of my counter - even assuming that I would not leave it unattended. Finally, I have always had difficulty with anything that is required to be clamped to a countertop/tabletop. In every instance my countertop has been either too thick to fit inside the clamp or there is not enough overhang to install. While this clamp appears to have a large jaw, one still needs to find a counter with enough overhang to use it.