Nightmare Dinner Guests

[Lilija]

My worst dinner guest is recurring. He's a single dude, living with his sister, and her family. I've been friends with the guy for about 20 years, lives in the neighborhood, walks over to our place a few times a week, right around the dinner hour. He's really a great friend, we love him to pieces, but he's EXTREMELY quirky.

He comes over after he eats at his place. He eats at 6 every night, and he turns up here, around 6:30. We eat dinner around 7 or 8, so he's got it timed just right.

Because I plan for it, I offer him dinner and a place at the table, every single time he comes over (which is 3-4 times a week) 90% of the time, he's like "NO NO no noooo I just ate, I'm just here to hang out!" and declines any food. Roughly 70% of the time he declines food, he stands around in the kitchen, eating with his hands out of my pots and pans...like I can't see him. The guy is a sneak-eater. I set the table, plate dinner, and we all sit down as a family. He wanders around the house, and winds up in my kitchen. I can see him. He shovels food into his mouth, with his dirty-ass hands, from my pots. I'm on to him, so I bring bowls of food to the table, now, the stuff I don't want demolished and picked through, and I leave a dinner-ish portion in the kitchen, like a trap.

When he's not sneaking around helping himself, he stands over us at the corner of the dinner table, and dominates our conversation. I wish he would sit, I leave a chair for him, with a place setting, every time.

When he DOES accept food, and a place at the table, he eats like a very picky 4 year old. He picks through everything on the plate, pushing his food around. He comments on how spicy everything is, and how great a cook his mother used to be.

The other day, I had family over, 11 guests total. We made a huge buffet style spagetti and meatballs type of meal, salad, antipasti, grilled garlic bread, sausage, the works. He helped himself to about a pound of pasta, 3/4ths of the available meatballs (I totally anticipated this, and had more waiting for backup!) then sat down and first mashed up the meatballs, picking anything weird out of them, like the fresh parsely, and parmesan cheese slivers. Then, he groomed all the chunks out of the sauce, anything bigger than a pea-sized bit, he took out. My husband commented "Hey, Phil, you left behind a lot of sauce, there, want some more pasta for it?" He took another half pound of noodles, a gob of sauce, meatballs, for seconds, and repeated the same process. Oh, and his he dished his second helping of noodles by shoving his hand in the bowl grabbing up a fistful of them, becuase the tongs weren't immediately visible. Dinner was over, for us, at that point.

He's kind of a burden, really, since he's here so much, and we have to kind of juggle his quirks. He's lonely though, and as his friend, I do what I can to offer food, love, and a nice place to hang out.

[Kouign Aman]

Can you borrow a neighborhood three or four year old to tell him to keep his hands out of the food? They have that imperious voice, and that surety of rightness........

[insomniac]

hmmmm, ..........now I ask myself how can a man like that be lonely??....you are easier on him than I would be, even if he were my son,............jeeeeez,

.....and that's not quirky, its manners, hygiene and most of all, respect,..... offer a place to hang out without the food

[BekkiM]

I think the worst dinner guests are the ones who don't show up--who rsvp'ed, then (a) call 30 minutes after dinner was supposed to start to announce that they're not coming (and, yes, I certainly make exceptions for emergencies, which these have not been) or (b) don't show at all, with no notice, or © show up 2 hours late.

I'm also irked by the people who declined the dinner invitation, yet show up anyway. I know I have a problem, I'm pathalogically organized for my dinner parties, right down to plating charts for each course, identified the particular china and flatware for each, but admitting it doesn't make it any easier for me to smile and plate my lovely oil-poached salmon willy-nilly on a plate that doesn't match the other plates! It makes me crazy.

Of the ones who do show up, preannounced and on time, I have thankfully rarely had any issues with their behavior. My dinner parties are usually small enough and for well-known and well-loved friends, so I know people's food quirks ahead of time. And I do try to make a point of asking, so I can accomodate restrictions and just plain likes and dislikes--I have no problem editing out beets or lamb, for example, if I know that at least one dinner guest finds them repulsive. Who wants to sit at a table watching people eat something that completely grosses you out? It's so small a sacrifice to me, that I'm not sure I even consider it a sacrifice. On the other hand, I have been known to plan a menu, then match my guest list to the menu.

I did have one memorably bad Thanksgiving, soon after I was married, that is still legend in my household for boorish guest behavior. I was in grad school and had offered my house to a friend in another program and told her to invite any other "orphans" she wanted. Unfortunately, she did... For the meal, several of her friends brought various stuffings/dressings that were "traditional" to their upbringing which is certainly understandable for a Thanksgiving dinner--but maybe someone should have told me they were going to do it, before I bought all the other food. When they arrived, they barely acknowledged me and my husband, ignored my inlaws altogether, and promptly retired to the living room with all of my wine, leaving the cooking, table-setting, and plating to me and my husband. During dinner, they continued their esoteric and highly specialized conversation about world literature in loud voices, again ignoring me and my family. After dinner, they immediately repaired to the living room again with the remaining wine, leaving us to clear the table and clean up--I think when I went to bed, exhausted, they were still in my living room, getting drunk and arguing loudly. I don't believe any of them spoke a word to me or my husband the entire day. It was truly excruciating. Luckily, my husband and I both still laugh about it because it was so surreal, there was no other logical response.

[Lilija]

Can you borrow a neighborhood three or four year old to tell him to keep his hands out of the food? They have that imperious voice, and that surety of rightness........

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Oh, that might be it. That's sheer genius. There's just such a kid that lives two houses down. 6 years old, bright red hair, and a fauxhawk, and the most politely outspoken little bugger, ever. Sometimes my son will pipe up and say something, we all kinda drop hints, but Phil writes off my kid and our polite hints with a "yeah yeah". The neighbor kid won't go so quietly.

I've been steeling myself up, for "the Talk" I have it all prepared, but I can't work up the nerve. He's SO super sensitive. I'm afraid to, because he'll take it right to heart, and we'll probably never see him again. I really have to say something, though, because the guy acts like he was raised by wolves, and it's becoming sort of an embarassing problem for ME since he's here so much.

[Lilija]

hmmmm, ..........now I ask myself how can a man like that be lonely??....you are easier on him than I would be, even if he were my son,............jeeeeez,

.....and that's not quirky, its manners, hygiene and most of all, respect,..... offer a place to hang out without the food

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I do have a soft spot in my heart, for the guy. He's absolutely batshit clinically insane. Like, real-on-meds-crazy. I suppose even crazy people can be taught to use serving spoons, though.

[Luckylies]

Lil-

Dude, you must be my kindred spirit. I don't know what it is, but I have such a soft spot for crazies....I never try to train mine though, they're always so sensitive... good luck.

[Anna Friedman Herlihy]

On the other hand, I have been known to plan a menu, then match my guest list to the menu.

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I totally do this. In fact I have two sets of guest lists--the ones perfect for a sit down dinner (few food quirks or allergies, show up on time, always rsvp, don't bring extra dishes, etc.) and those that I will only invite to a large buffet-type meal or heavy appetizers with cocktails (so it doesn't matter if they show up late, unannounced, with several extra people in tow, etc.). I have to say though that a few people are banned from all but the most casual of parties because they refuse to show up without some sort of crappy appetizer or dessert of the type that's made from a bunch of super-processed products or just purchased from the grocery store. I am too gracious a host not to put such dreck out (and have the embarrassment of no one eating it), so I just avoid it now, and mostly only invite those folks over for cocktails-only late-night parties! Although a few of these types of "have to bring something immediately edible" have now resorted to calling and asking what they can bring, so I usually guide them into something like "how about some after dinner chocolates" which normally results in something at least marginally edible.

Yes I am a control freak about my menus!

I wish every guest that feels the need to bring something could be like my friend Magdelena who always brings nice things like jars of fig paste, olive oil, fancy vinegar--things that are not meant to be consumed immediately, but can be appreciated by a good cook! A great alternative to the usual wine (although some of our friends choose good bottles, if I get another bottle of Yellowtail, I might scream). Or why not just flowers like so many folks bring in Europe. I love flowers. Bring me flowers!

[Megan Kathleen]

Disclaimer: Though I, too, was raised not to gripe (and fail miserably at this as an adult!) I have enjoyed reading everyone's dinner guest complaints. I am glad indeed that we who cook for others have a sympathetic and welcoming place in which to vent!

Now, I must share, for I have a friend much like Lilija's friend.

He's an artist who lives in the neighborhood, and is... let's not mince words... basically a ward of my circle of friends. Some give more than others, and believe me, there is much to be done. My personal slant on him is that people baby him, which in turn encourages him to be manipulative, and he'll never make significant progress until he starts consistently playing by the rules of basic interpersonal relationships.

He brings nothing to the (physical) table but an expectation to be fed whatever's cooking. He'll just walk right in and sit down at my table, any time he sees fit. Never an offer to help, never lifting a finger even to wash his own dish. On more than one occasion, he's walked right into my house and opened the fridge. Unacceptable.

Yes, he's got more than his fair share of problems, but I'm so sick of his rudeness that I no longer go out of my way to accommodate him. If he does come by, I try to avoid serving food, even if that means holding up my dinner guests until I can manipulate the conversation enough to encourage him to skedaddle. This is no small task. In the event that he is invited to stay for dinner, he's the epitome of ungratefulness. He'll ask "how much longer?" and the like.

A few years ago, he walked right in to a Thanksgiving feast that even the many hands on deck could not turn into light work- naturally, right at the pre-turnout crunch- and said "Where are the spoons?" This is the stuff of legend among my friends.

On another occasion, we all were having coffee and conversation over one of my homemade apple pies. After eating entirely too much for a situation in which we were all sharing together: "This is good, but I wanted a cherry pie."

I didn't think I had to say it, but pie is for everybody.

It is ROUTINE for this gentleman to come in, sit down, and after the usual niceties, ask me what I am cooking tonight.

Let me say I would not have written this if I thought he would care a lick that I wrote something negative about him in a public forum. He's simply impervious to feedback of any kind. It's like he only sees happy faces who can think of nothing other than pleasing him; reality has no resonance.

I have gotten impatient with him in the past, which I deeply regret. His reaction to even the slightest criticism is like that of a small child who is encountering a difficulty in life for the first time, although I know full well he's been dealing with the ramifications of his shoddy manners for a long while, and not just with me. I just wish I could show him- without words- what it means to be a gracious host and the importance of a guest responding in kind. I can't seem to separate his oblivious carelessness from his conscious choices to be manipulative anymore. It is infuriating.

[GTO]

Megan - You need to get up! Get up! Go over to the window. Open it! Stick your head out and yell "I'm as mad a Hell! And I'm not going to take this anymore!"

Edited August 10, 2007 by GTO (log)

[nibor]

It sounds like some of you need to lock your doors!

[Kouign Aman]

I just remembered this one. I've had nothing so much "fun" as has been reported here, but this one did blow my mind.

My husband and I were newly dating, and were hosting a dinner for 14 at his house. We'd planned 6 courses, with appropriate wines. All was well under control despite the selection of too many items with significant last minute prep requirements.

There wasn't room to sit so many at one table, so we set up a table for 8, a table for 6, and to one side, a table for 2. This would allow us to chat with each of the larger tables easily, while still having a clear route to the kitchen.

One guest arrived, and immediately rearranged the place settings, creating a very cramped table for 9 and an even more cramped table for 7, and in the processes blocking the narrow path to the kitchen.

Her reason? She assumed the table for two was for her, and one other unpartnered guest, of whom her dislike was VERY well known.

editted to correct typos

Edited August 10, 2007 by Kouign Aman (log)

[Dignan]

I have gotten impatient with him in the past, which I deeply regret. His reaction to even the slightest criticism is like that of a small child who is encountering a difficulty in life for the first time, although I know full well he's been dealing with the ramifications of his shoddy manners for a long while, and not just with me. I just wish I could show him- without words- what it means to be a gracious host and the importance of a guest responding in kind. I can't seem to separate his oblivious carelessness from his conscious choices to be manipulative anymore. It is infuriating.

←

Get him a stack of "Highlights" magazines and flag "Goofus and Gallant."

[Lilija]

Disclaimer: Though I, too, was raised not to gripe (and fail miserably at this as an adult!) I have enjoyed reading everyone's dinner guest complaints. I am glad indeed that we who cook for others have a sympathetic and welcoming place in which to vent!

Now, I must share, for I have a friend much like Lilija's friend.

He's an artist who lives in the neighborhood, and is... let's not mince words... basically a ward of my circle of friends. Some give more than others, and believe me, there is much to be done. My personal slant on him is that people baby him, which in turn encourages him to be manipulative, and he'll never make significant progress until he starts consistently playing by the rules of basic interpersonal relationships.

He brings nothing to the (physical) table but an expectation to be fed whatever's cooking. He'll just walk right in and sit down at my table, any time he sees fit. Never an offer to help, never lifting a finger even to wash his own dish. On more than one occasion, he's walked right into my house and opened the fridge. Unacceptable.

Yes, he's got more than his fair share of problems, but I'm so sick of his rudeness that I no longer go out of my way to accommodate him. If he does come by, I try to avoid serving food, even if that means holding up my dinner guests until I can manipulate the conversation enough to encourage him to skedaddle. This is no small task. In the event that he is invited to stay for dinner, he's the epitome of ungratefulness. He'll ask "how much longer?" and the like.

A few years ago, he walked right in to a Thanksgiving feast that even the many hands on deck could not turn into light work- naturally, right at the pre-turnout crunch- and said "Where are the spoons?" This is the stuff of legend among my friends.

On another occasion, we all were having coffee and conversation over one of my homemade apple pies. After eating entirely too much for a situation in which we were all sharing together: "This is good, but I wanted a cherry pie."

I didn't think I had to say it, but pie is for everybody.

It is ROUTINE for this gentleman to come in, sit down, and after the usual niceties, ask me what I am cooking tonight.

Let me say I would not have written this if I thought he would care a lick that I wrote something negative about him in a public forum. He's simply impervious to feedback of any kind. It's like he only sees happy faces who can think of nothing other than pleasing him; reality has no resonance.

I have gotten impatient with him in the past, which I deeply regret. His reaction to even the slightest criticism is like that of a small child who is encountering a difficulty in life for the first time, although I know full well he's been dealing with the ramifications of his shoddy manners for a long while, and not just with me. I just wish I could show him- without words- what it means to be a gracious host and the importance of a guest responding in kind. I can't seem to separate his oblivious carelessness from his conscious choices to be manipulative anymore. It is infuriating.

←

Ugh, sounds like you have it worse than me, that sounds so frustrating, and a breeding ground for bad feelings...I would hate not knowing his true motivatons like that. I'd be tempted to start shutting him out of meal privileges. "What's for dinner? Oh, we were just heading out, sorry, seeya later!"

I totally know what you mean about putting off dinner, though. I've done that quite often, when I just didn't have the extra, or just didn't want to cope with feeding the guy. It still manages to skew the whole evening, though.

With Phil, I know he was raised in a house full of people, and without any attention to social graces. He has a hard time coping in social situations (as in, we took him to a place with a salad bar not too long ago, and he was freaking out, not knowing what to do. One trip? More? Clean plate each time? Ahhghgh!).

I gently try to "polish him up". Everything has to be super bright, positive, constructive criticism, though, because he's so totally overreactive about everything, so easily embarassed, and so easily hurt. The other day, he was walking across my (pale cream color) rug, in his dirty work boots, just fresh from work. I asked him to back off the rug, and he bugged out. He was SO sorry, and he pretty much left, upset. He later sent me an email, apologizing AGAIN for the rug. He looks up to me, like a sister, so I try to take care of him. I complain here, where it feels so good to vent, but by and large, I take the good with the bad. He's a friend that's worth all the wackiness.

[Megan Kathleen]

Get him a stack of "Highlights" magazines and flag "Goofus and Gallant."

Man, for real.

And GLO, you totally know me. I swear I'm not an uptight person, perhaps just born in the wrong time period! I could certainly use to yell out my window a little more frequently than I do.

As far as locking my door goes, I've got these beautiful bad dogs (Gracie and Little Guy, both rescues- see profile) that FREAK OUT whenever someone's standing at the door waiting to be let in, even if it's Henry or me; in order to limit the barking, we leave it unlocked when "the four of us" are home. (Of course, we lock it twice when we're away!) Mostly, only members of our small group of tight-knit friends (who are cool with the dogs, and sometimes bring their own, both dogs and wine) come to visit. They do a fine job of both waiting patiently for and eating the dinner scraps, providing company, entertainment and affection, "beating it" when told to, and deterring door-to-door proselytizers. If Goofus and Gallant don't resonate, I may suggest them to my wayward friend as models for etiquette.

Lilija, if I did not love my friend as much as I do, I wouldn't have the courage to stand up to his manipulation. It's really a struggle, and as annoying as he is to me at times, I try to remind myself that he's probably in a lot more pain than I can understand, deep inside himself. Food's supposed to be this great reconciler, this thing we can all come together and share over, and I hope I can stay calm and eventually get through to him instead of cutting him off. We'll see.

[Lilija]

Lilija, if I did not love my friend as much as I do, I wouldn't have the courage to stand up to his manipulation. It's really a struggle, and as annoying as he is to me at times, I try to remind myself that he's probably in a lot more pain than I can understand, deep inside himself. Food's supposed to be this great reconciler, this thing we can all come together and share over, and I hope I can stay calm and eventually get through to him instead of cutting him off. We'll see.

←

Yeah, I totally hear that. Totally. With your patience and generosity, I'm sure you'll be able to, eventually. All you can do is hope for the best, and hope he comes away from everything having absorbed some kind of subconsious knowledge on how to be.

[jaynesb]

hmmmm, ..........now I ask myself how can a man like that be lonely??....you are easier on him than I would be, even if he were my son,............jeeeeez,

.....and that's not quirky, its manners, hygiene and most of all, respect,..... offer a place to hang out without the food

←

I do have a soft spot in my heart, for the guy. He's absolutely batshit clinically insane. Like, real-on-meds-crazy. I suppose even crazy people can be taught to use serving spoons, though.

←

Can you go at it the other way? Maybe as he's leaving, actually invite him to dinner with a specific invitation for a date about 4 days later. Ask him if he's got anything going on over the next few days and say things like "Great, we'll expect you at x:00" and "if you need to change the time, please give me a call otherwise take care until then. " Maybe an intermediate call to his house during the day to chat but also close with, "looking forward to seeing you on x take care until then." Maybe too subtle?

Maybe you could gradually slide in an additional day between invitations. If this has been going on for years, it's not going to change overnight anyway and it sounds like your dinners are pretty much badly affected anyway even without him at the table.

On the other hand, you could also try changing your dinner hour frequently and be finishing up when he shows up.

jayne

[dockhl]

On the other hand, maybe your friends have Asperger's Syndrome, which keeps them from understanding normal social interactions and expectations. I have two nephews who are Asperger's, and this sounds very familiar.

Just saying.

They need to have your expectations spelled out very specifically and non-judgementally. Not easy but doable.

[insomniac]

Lilija, why don't you pop over to his sister's place and ask them how it's handled there?

[SundaySous]

Lilija, why don't you pop over to his sister's place and ask them how it's handled there?

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I'm guessing they handle it by sending him over to Lilija's.

[Lilija]

Asperger's is a possibility, I have to look that up...

Insomniac, his sister is about as socially graceful as he is. She's almost a shut in, who never wears shoes, doesn't have teeth, and has a very bizarre view on the world. So, the family is no help, in fact, I think they're part of the problem. He comes from a strange background.

SundaySous, I think he comes over here to get away from them, honestly.

[Dignan]

Asperger's is a possibility, I have to look that up...

←

And then again, some people are just buffoons....

[nonblonde007]

Unfortunately, you know you have to choose. Possibly hurt his feelings by stating your concerns, or just continueing on as things are. Remember, you are not responsible for the way he reacts to your carefully worded conversation with him. People can choose to have their feelings hurt by what you say or choose to take it to heart. Consider who all is being affected by the behavior of this one person, the amount of damage done verses the rewards for your "guest', and the length you are willing to go on a possible maybe. Ultimately, the choice is yours on whether or not this disruption in your household continues, and you are responsible for that. I feel for the poor man, have been in similar circumstances and made both choices. My opinion doesn't matter in this case, only yours does. I wish you luck, and peace for all involved.

[SundaySous]

Lilija it sounds like if he is on batshiat crazy meds he probably also has access to counseling, has been too but does not follow through. Also sounds like you would benefit from counseling session or two just to deal with this issue.

Having a neutral third party trained observer sitting down with both you of takes many of the burdens off both. Yeah it sucks paying $200 to resolve this but then again what is $200 vs years of unresolved issues. Maybe his insurance would pay for it.

Ah to get him in that room there in lies the rub.

When a fighter pilots wingman looses his air supply the wingman gets goofy, doesn't realize he's lost his air supply and you can't talk him down to fresh air. So you have pretend your aircraft is in jeopardy and get him to follow you down to where it's safe.

Basically if you go the route of counseling you may have to make it look like he would be doing you a big favor going along. Which I guess he would be doing as you like this person and would feel really bad if you had to kill him after his eating all the mac n cheese again, with his fingers, the ones he just scratched his but with.

Apologize about the sarcastic tone but hey what ever you do never let them take your sense of humor. Sometimes it's the only thing that keeps you going forward.

[hummingbirdkiss]

the worst guest I ever had in my house was when I was very young ..very insecure and newly married...he went into my kitchen lifted the lid off a pot of sauce I was making took the spoon right out of my hand and dipped in tasting it said

"man I need to doctor up this sauce"

( this was and still is a really nice putanesca sauce I make all the time)

he proceded to dump about 1/2 cup of worchestershire sauce into the pot..stir stir and with his sloppy assed mouth yet again dipped the same wooden spoon back into the sauce tasted it again and said "there you go now it is good"

I went into the bathroom and sobbed...

if anyone tried to do that now I would knock their ass to the floor

age does have its perks

the second worst was my cousin ...I was having a nice lunch for her my aunt (her mom) and all the kids ...so I made this big pasta salad with all kinds of things in including olives and cheese...now her mother was not feeble at all ..lets just make this clear she was about 65 fit as can be and had no disabilities or health issues to speak of ...the kids were all healthy and had no food allergies or issues either...

anyway my cousin looked at the salad I had plated and served to everyone picked her mothers plate up first and one by one with her fork picked all the cheese cubes and olives off her mothers plate and tossed it back into the bowl ...saying "you dont need all this cholesterol or salt this is not good for you!!!" looked at me and said "what were you thinking you know this is not good for the heart?" then went to her kids plats and did the same thing ...all while I just stared at her in shock then she sat down and ate hers with the olives cheese in t

that is it I never got mad because she was obviously not functing on all cylinders

Edited August 15, 2007 by hummingbirdkiss (log)