Dinner Guests Don't Return Favor

[Soup]

The real bottom line on this is: invite people because you want to entertain them and enjoy their company, that should be enough pleasure. If it happens they bring a gift or return the invitation consider it a bonus, but don't expect or want it - that only causes disappointment and/or resentment.

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Ditto

Soup

[chefzadi]

Y'know, I think this entertaining reciprocity thang is a very delicate balance ... and part of the equation that's only briefly touched on by the article is the fact that, to have a really successful party, you do need some good party-goers. Almost at the end, the article quotes one "inveterate party-giver" as saying "I don't look for reciprocation. I look for people who help me have a good party." I'm not 100% in agreement, but I do believe that guest life-energy is an essential party ingredient, one that no amount of killer cuisine can cover up the lack of. When people bring the gift of themselves--not just showing up physically, but also party-energy-wise, you could be eating delivery pizza and the party will still be a hit. So I do count showing up in a mood to party as a form of reciprocity.

Mind you, I do also appreciate some more tangible reciprocity. But personally, I really don't *want* it to be baldly tit-for-tat--various members of my family used to lay that trip on various other family members all the time, and all the angst engendered by that scorekeeping just made me want to scream and climb the walls. I prefer a more general warm-fuzzy sort of reciprocity, a sensation that I'm included in the social memory of the extended friendship group, in that whenever there is an event of any sort, people remember to think "oh, and we need to invite Miz Ducky, she's a helluva lotta fun." And that results from my having demonstrated over time, by being a lively guest as well as a lively host, that I *am* in fact a fun addition to a party.

Currently I have the CHAOS thing going on at my place, so no in-house entertaining right now. But I do try to at least offer to bring something with me when I go to somebody else's house, or at least do some reciprocal act, to keep on demonstrating that I'm that person you want to have at your party. For instance, I helped entertain the kids at a friend's recent Halloween party by playing quick-sketch artist. I think the parents were more blown-away grateful for that than by any plate of Halloween goodies I could have brought to share.

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When will you be in Los Angeles? Give us a buzz anytime. Between you and me at a kid's party.... you know what I mean.

[Behemoth]

Some people can get away with mooching, if they are entertaining enough party guests. But these types are very few and far between. I have so far only found one. (And I have been looking. )

Actually, I definitely don't care if people cook a meal for me. Some of my favorite "reciprocal" events have involved access to some interesting art shows, concerts, parties, performances etc. Even if they are free, I might never have heard about them, and it's always nice to get a call saying, hey wanna go to X? People who get hung up on having the right silverware and table linens IMO have lost sight of the basic pleasure of having people just want to hang out with you.

[mizducky]

When will you be in Los Angeles? Give us a buzz anytime. Between you and me at a kid's party.... you know what I mean. 

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What a lovely offer! I will most definitely keep you posted on the next time I find myself up in your territory. (And I'll bring the sketchpad. )

[Misa]

I just recently moved into a one-bedroom apartment. Before that, my DH and I lived in a studio apartment (and a sublet room before that!) so I've not been much of the "Would you like to come have dinner at my place?" type, unless you're a very close friend. I do, however, offer to do the dishes, what can I bring, would you like me to come early so I can help you cook, etc. And, occasionally, I'll take friends out for dinner.

Hopefully, though, I'll get to have people over soon!

One thing DH and I would NOT do, however, is invite over couples with children, unless we knew a tactful way to make sure that they had a babysitter. Why? We don't have a childfriendly home. Our animals aren't very kid-friendly (my dog doesn't mind a pet or two, but stop means stop-this-second and my cat is... testy). And furthermore, mainly, in fact, we don't WANT children in our home. There's a reason that we have no children ourself... we're not really child-friendly people. But, in the same regards, we very rarely accept dinner invitations from a couple with children because we don't want to have to deal with that. At all. (We solve this problem by not having many friends with children!)

[rich]

I think no one should ever have children again - ever, no place in the world - ever.

Think of all the problems that would solve. Within 100 years or so there would true world peace.

[touaregsand]

I think no one should ever have children again - ever, no place in the world - ever.

Think of all the problems that would solve. Within 100 years or so there would true world peace.

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Interesting idea. But the problem is that even during times of war, famine, disease, lack of birth control... people still fuck. Terrible habit. Something should be done about it right away.

Our animals aren't very kid-friendly (my dog doesn't mind a pet or two, but stop means stop-this-second and my cat is... testy). And furthermore, mainly, in fact, we don't WANT children in our home. There's a reason that we have no children ourself... we're not really child-friendly people. But, in the same regards, we very rarely accept dinner invitations from a couple with children because we don't want to have to deal with that. At all. (We solve this problem by not having many friends with children!)

Sounds like a warm, friendly household. I'm getting all misty eyed just reading this.

Who was it that said, "There are two kinds of people in the world. Those who have kids and those who don't."

This reminds of the time we invited someone over for dinner. Actually the woman invited herself. But when she came it was pretty obvious that she really didn't like kids. It was really uncomfortable for us, because she was obviously bothered by the presence our children in our own home. She said things like, "are they supposed to be doing things like that? You let them do that?" We scooted her out in less than an hour.

[Genny]

The whole reciprocity thing really is about frienship. You generally invite people into your home because you like them or want to get to know them better. When there is no reciprocity you either feel rejected (they don't really want to spend that much time with you) or you feel used (they will however accept invitations to come eat your food and drink your beverages).

I agree, reciprocity could simply be and invitation to come over and watch the season finally of Desparate Housewives, it doesn't even need to involve food!

Kids are an interesting issue and can be a point of conflict for breeders and non-breeders. We do not have children but do enjoy them in spurts. We host family functions and have a young niece and nephew so we have child-proofed the greatroom to handle them but they really are not allowed in other parts of the house without supervision as those parts are not child-proof. I had my 5 year old neice sitting on the kitchen floor smashing sweet potatoes for a sweet potato pie, boy was that fun!!!!

[birder53]

I don't keep track and neither do my friends. My mother, on the other hand, is very uncomfortable about not being able to reciprocate invitations from her friends. Both mom and dad are 83 and can't move around the way they used to. It would be impossible for them to get the house ready, cook, serve and clean up for entertaining. Their friends are close in age but a bit more nimble so they still extend invitations to their homes.

We gave my folks a gift certificate at Christmas for a catered dinner party at their home. We told them to pick the date and the guests and we would take care of the rest. Well, we cooked and served dinner for seven. Her friends wanted to know if they could hire us! It all went very well and at the end I heard Mom say "Well, now I've paid them all back." Maybe I'll feel that way in my later years, but for now I don't owe anyone and no one owes me.

[Pam R]

Truth be told, I'm such a damned picky food snob that I'd rather cook meals in my kitchen and serve them anyway. Sick, yes, but gets me out of this tit-for-tat business.

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Ditto. Add me to the list of sickies.

Edited May 19, 2005 by Pam R (log)

[foodie52]

The people I like to invite for dinner are all foodies - most of them work where I do - so none of us are scared to entertain. Usually it's a " Hey, I'm cooking brisket - why don't you come over this weekend and bring a side." It's very laid back, but this way there are no expectations and nobody is keeping count.

[racheld]

Back when we lived in Alabama, my husband's grandparents were in their 80's, and neither was up to much housecleaning, etc. He did what little cooking there was, as he had for most of their married life, except when he was off in the woods cooking for a "logging crew" in the 40's---gigantic meals of meat and gravy and enough biscuits to sink the Bismarck.

I had every Wednesday off, and would usually go and spend part of the morning with them, as they were alone most of the time. I would make pastries at home, or at least pop into the grocery bakery for donuts---something for a little coffee snack.

Then, I would cook them a nice lunch, with plenty of leftovers for their supper. This was not a little salad lunch, or a sandwich; this was a big old Southern noon DINNER, with peas and cornbread and coleslaw and perhaps fried chicken or ham. This is the meal they were accustomed to, and this is what I cooked.

The reason Granddaddy did all the cooking for their family of nine was that Grandma was a Churchworker. Capital C. She lived and breathed her Mission work, and her Stewardship, and her visitation and five church services per week.

She took her Service To The Lord seriously, ahead of family, friends, and any other little extras like that. I never saw her in anything other than a church dress, with nice shoes and her stockings rolled below her knees. She stood ready for any call to come be of SERVICE, able to grab her hat and Bible and be out that door in two minutes flat.

So, about the second time I was to go see them, she called and asked what I was going to cook---she thought she'd just ask the Preacher and his family, since there would be all that food, anyway. So she did. All seven of them. It was summer, so the whole family, teenagers and all, arrived for noon dinner. They passed the time of day in the living room, while I manned the oven and the stovetop in a strange, very hot, no A/C kitchen with no prep tools (learned to take my own knives, whisks and aprons) and got hotter and more resentful with each burst of laughter emanating from the tallhair take-their-ease crowd awaiting their dinner.

And that's the way it went...I'd go visit, and the Organist and HER family showed up right on time for a meal...Or another family, down on their luck, needing a good feed and some cheering up. This went on for several weeks, spending my day off repaying all their social or spiritual obligations.

They were such dear people, and all so thankful and sweet, I was ashamed to be so resentful of the time, and it did become a family joke---we'd laugh about it at home. But soon, somehow my boss mysteriously changed my day off to Saturday, which I needed to spend at home to be with my own family. No more Church Lunches.

Edited May 20, 2005 by racheld (log)

[ronnie_suburban]

. . . But soon, somehow my boss mysteriously changed my day off to Saturday, which I needed to spend at home to be with my own family.  No more Church Lunches.

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Wow . . . what a tale! And that particular detail sounds a bit like divine intervention.

=R=

[Mottmott]

What an entertaining thread. I feel obliged to bring a sidedish.

I had a distinguished old batchelor professor from grad school (think Variorum Origin of the Species) who liked to come to dinner, didn't like children. Actually, they made him uncomfortable as they took the attention from him. He was so entertaining and so enjoyed good food that we always found a way to keep our otherwise doted upon kiddies out of the way.

I never expected him to "reciprocate" in any other way than visiting us. He had been a generous teacher for me and countless others in ways we could never reciprocate.

I think among real friends reciprocation is not an issue; people do different things for each other. And I do think it is a kind of obligation for those of us who have the ability and means to do so to include others at our table who don't. Most of these people are generous in their way which may be more restricted than ours.

I think it's easy to spot moocher "pro's" who simply want to be sure they're getting more than they give, so avoid them. S/he's the same person who has all the expensive booze and food, then wants to just split the check.

[racheld]

What an entertaining thread. I feel obliged to bring a sidedish.

And it was delicious.

[DTBarton]

Thought readers of this thread would like to see this letter from today's Washington Post in response to the article that started the thread.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...5051901572.html

[ronnie_suburban]

. . . I think among real friends reciprocation is not an issue; people do different things for each other. And I do think it is a kind of obligation for those of us who have the ability and means to do so to include others at our table who don't. Most of these people are generous in their way which may be more restricted than ours. . .

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I agree completely with this. Our biggest disappointments in this area tend to involve people with whom we are trying to "get started." Sometimes it works out and sometimes it doesn't.

But I think I've experienced another side of this dynamic as well. Shortly after we moved into our current house, our neighbors invited us and a few other folks from the neighborhood over for dinner. We were asked to bring a side dish. I made big batch of creamed spinach; nothing special (no doubt), but it still was the best thing on the table. At the end of the meal, everyone was very eager to take home the leftover creamed spinach while the rest of the leftovers went unclaimed (sadly, the host was not a great cook and served what I believe was boiled turkey with gravy that came from a pouch ).

A few months later we reciprocated by hosting our own dinner; inviting (among others) the neighbors who'd initially hosted us. They came, they were pleasant and they brought a nice zucchini bread for dessert. But, a few months after that, we learned through the neighborhood grapevine that they were hosting another dinner. Only this time, we were not invited. Did my creamed spinach show up the chef? Did we smell bad? Did they just not like us? I'm not really sure, but we've never been invited to their house again. Perhaps we over-reciprocated. In either case, it was quite amusing listening to our neighbors who had been invited again, complain about having to attend. I guess every gray cloud does have a silver lining

=R=

[racheld]

Yep, we know all those people. And even worse than the food-dictators are those who don't warn you, but spend the meal discussing the effect of salt on their blood pressure and their latest blood sugar count, and IF I NEVER HEAR THE WORD "tra-gliss-a-rids" again it will be too soon!!!!!

And these are my dear aunts! You can't drum them out of the family, you can't alter their conversation, you can't even change the subject---the weather just reminds them of their seasonal allergies, and the news brings up the latest survey on good vs. bad cholesterol. A bit of gossip just brings to mind how low Mrs. Vandeventer is, and who had surgery only to be sewed right up and sent home there-was-nothing-they-could-do.

And these used to be such wonderful people, the lights of my childhood with their visits and witty conversation and lovely, fashionable clothes.

And elderly aunts aren't the only ones---just get yourself a guest or two with a gym membership or an addiction to running, and you'll swear off entertaining altogether. One of the last ones brought her WATER BOTTLE to the table.

And said the word hydration about five times.

Maybe somewhere there's a kindergarten class that would like to come over for cookies.

[ronnie_suburban]

Thought readers of this thread would like to see this letter from today's Washington Post in response to the article that started the thread.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...5051901572.html

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The letter raises a lot of interesting points. I think these 2 lines best sum it up:

. . . Failure to reciprocate invitations is so common today that it is now more remarkable when people do reciprocate than when they don't.

. . .

. . . It's a lot easier to meet in a restaurant. At least there you don't have anything invested, and you can pay your own way or alternate treating.

=R=

[Behemoth]

Thought readers of this thread would like to see this letter from today's Washington Post in response to the article that started the thread.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...5051901572.html

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Gah. Almost every one of the things she's mentioned has happened to us since we moved out here. The weird thing is, it never happened to me among my little social circle of easygoing artist/musician/student types in Philly. As informal as that group is, they are very good at returning invites and showing up with stuff in hand and just being generally easygoing, pleasant guests. Lots of vegetarians, but apart from that never any dietary restrictions. And it certainly never happened when we hosted meals in Germany. But since we moved to the midwest, it is the supposedly grown-up more formal crowd that has not shown up/dictated the menu/etc. Luckily no-one has ever tried to take their wine back, though in a couple of cases I sort of wish they had

It's a lot easier to meet in a restaurant. At least there you don't have anything invested, and you can pay your own way or alternate treating.

We've gotten invited to restaurants in reciprocation for meals. I don't mind it but I would really hate to give up on hosting people in my home. I love the slower, more intimate pace of dinner at home, you just can't get that at a restaurant.

[Eden]

what I loved was the friend we invited to a special dinner party, who I knew didn't like "fatty foods" and was big on plain vegetables, so I specifically bought artichokes for my veg so that while the rest of us could have a lovely sauce with our chokes, she would be able to eat hers plain, and presumably be happy.

She spent a large portion of the evening dissing artichokes, talking about how horribly wasteful they are because you only eat such a tiny part of them, blah blah blah. (Yet I've seen her down corn with no qualms on multiple occasions! ) She has not been invited back & we only see her now in large group settings.

[Behemoth]

In my experience this type of behavior really seems to be an American thing. Am I wrong? And if it is an American thing, why do you think that is? This may sound nuts but, a large part of our decision to move right now is that we really miss having dinner parties.

[touaregsand]

My husband and I have learned to sniff out moochers or users. Really, it's amazing the number of people we barely know who hint at getting invited for dinner with the expectation that they will get some three star Michelin French meal (some have actually asked if we will be serving caviar, foie gras and truffles ), an Arabian nights Pasha fantasy with belly dancers to complete the idea of legendary Arab hospitality or a Korean meal with at leas 15 side dishes... One woman even said that if she came for dinner I should make all her favorite Korean dishes from scratch. True she had done some favors for me, but I mean really!!!

[HerndonJake]

One thing DH and I would NOT do, however, is invite over couples with children, unless we knew a tactful way to make sure that they had a babysitter. Why? We don't have a childfriendly home. Our animals aren't very kid-friendly (my dog doesn't mind a pet or two, but stop means stop-this-second and my cat is... testy). And furthermore, mainly, in fact, we don't WANT children in our home. There's a reason that we have no children ourself... we're not really child-friendly people. But, in the same regards, we very rarely accept dinner invitations from a couple with children because we don't want to have to deal with that. At all. (We solve this problem by not having many friends with children!)

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here's what we say when we want to invite over our friends and not the kids, we say "would you like to join us for an adult dinner party?" that pretty much clues them into the need for a babysitter.

Misa here's something else for you to consider, someday most of your friends will grow up and probably have kids-it happens. You keep up your mature attitude toward children and you won't have to worry much about inviting or invites, no parent will want you around with your "don't want to deal with that" attitude toward thier children. Unwarranted rudeness to children is untolerable, just because you're not into it yourelf.

Back when I was younger, I too, thought that I didn't want to have children. I now have three, and they happen to know how to behave when mom and dad throw an adult dinner party. Never say never.

I think no one should ever have children again - ever, no place in the world - ever.

Think of all the problems that would solve. Within 100 years or so there would true world peace.

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Rich, I'm guessing your just looking to ruffle some parents feathers with you're well thought out comment. Peace to you.

I gets pretty annoying after a while, as a parent to read some of the foolish comments on this forum when it comes to children. As its been said elsewhere, there are no bad children only bad parenting. My $.02.

-jeff

[Behemoth]

I've found that the best way to deal with kids is to invite everyone over for brunch. It's early in the day so the kids won't be tired and cranky for a while. They like most brunch food (eggs, waffles, fruit) and these types of things are really easy to prepare. And then once the meal is over you can take a walk to the park and the kids can blow off steam on the monkey bars while the adults get some conversation in. Maybe we've just been lucky, our friends by and large seem to have really fun, well behaved kids.