Pizza: Cook-Off 8

[snowangel]

We love making pizza but are still searching for our perfect dough. And we also need lots of practice at shaping/stretching the dough.

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When I first voted for this cookoff, I was fairly confident. Now, not so confident.

I think a wet dough, an overnight ferment, and minimal toppings.

But, that shaping.

Friday night will be pizza night here. I'll work my legs running back and forth from the kitchen to the computer and this thread, I'm sure!

[artisan02]

Me, I want to try your l'ancienne recipe next time. I've been using PR's neopolitan pizza dough recipe so far.

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I have Reinharts American Pie..is that the dough you are using? I have thought about making that one.

[tupac17616]

This is my Italian variant of the British breakfast standard soldiers and eggs.

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Excuse my ignorance (and the lack of relevance to this thread), but what are "soldiers"? I remember seeing that on the menu at Balthazar here in NYC and I had (and still have) no clue what exactly that is. Anybody?

By the way, I am loving this thread! Looks like people have really been making some great pizza.

[little ms foodie]

I thought soldiers were sausages???

[Behemoth]

Me, I want to try your l'ancienne recipe next time. I've been using PR's neopolitan pizza dough recipe so far.

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I have Reinharts American Pie..is that the dough you are using? I have thought about making that one.

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No, I am using the Neopolitain dough recipe from Bread Baker's Apprentice, page 207.

[kutsu]

Soldiers are slices of toast, cust into "finger" type shapes. Think what you guys would call fish-sticks for the shape, but buttered toast instead of greasy fish, obviously.

[vengroff]

Soldiers are slices of toast, cust into "finger" type shapes. Think what you guys would call fish-sticks for the shape, but buttered toast instead of greasy fish, obviously.

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Exactly. They are commonly served with, and dipped in, a soft-boiled egg. That's what made me think of them as I dipped a strip of the crust into the egg.

[Chufi]

Time for pizza.

I was very excited about this cook-off. A couple of monhts ago I have been experimenting with pizza dough, rising times, oven times, etc. I made a lot of good pizza and some great pizza, even without a pizza stone or peel.

The pizza I made today was the least succesful of them all. Wat happened?

I used the dough I have been using for some time now. I made it this morning, let it rise for about 90 minutes. Then I punched it down a bit and put it in the fridge. I let it come to room temp before assembling the pizza, but I have to say it had not risen much that time. Maybe I should have left it longer, and let it rise more the second time?

Preheated the oven to 500 F. and put a baking sheet in to heat up. Prepared my 2 small pizzas on a board (asparagus, chorizo, mozarella and tomato) and let them slide onto the very hot baking tray. Then I cracked an egg on top.

Baked for 6 minutes. Something weird happened. I had stretched the dough pretty thin but in the oven it puffed up a lot and became spongy and bready. Took a long time to cook properly. Too long, as you can see on the finished pizza: the egg is very overcooked but the dough isn't....

Also, strangely enough, even with the chorizo it tasted sort of bland.

I think the main problem though was the dough. It should have been much warmer and more risen before assembling.

Next time..

[rcaffelle]

Chufi,

I'd surmise that oven conditions are a more likely source of your result than dough conditions. Your baking sheet isn't going to retain as much heat as a stone or tiles heated in a 500 degree oven for an hour. Once the pizza hit the sheet it probably cooled a bit and couldn't sustain the blast that a hot stone will give the underside of the crust. This lengthened the cooking time and would greatly affect the final result. Not sure why it was so bland, but certainly a darker, crunchier exterior can help. Pizza dough is not as much about rising as breads. Most doughs that I make are refrigerated 15 minutes after mixing, and come to room temp 2 hours before baking. There is no serious rising in this process. I highly recommend American Pie by Reinhart for a host of dough recipes that you can try and find one you like.

rich

P.S. 2 Pizzas simultaneously on one sheet is also probably not optimal if you're using a baking sheet instead of a stone. Do one at a time. Not too much extra work.

[vengroff]

Chufi,

I think you might also get better results if you used a stone instead of a baking sheet if you can find one. What probably happened is you got a lot of oven spring during the time the dough was in the temperature range where the yeast is active. On a stone, the thin crust would pass through this range more quickly, keeping the dough from puffing up so much.

That's my theory, anyway.

[Chufi]

I think you all are right that I can improve my pizza with a stone.. still, that does not explain why tonight's pizza was far less good than other pizza's I have made in this oven without a stone. The only thing I did different today was refrigerate the dough, so that seemed like the reason.

[ludja]

I think you all are right that I can improve my pizza with a stone.. still, that does not explain why tonight's pizza was far less good than other pizza's I have made in this oven without a stone. The only thing I did different today was refrigerate the dough, so that seemed like the reason.

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The photo before they went in the oven does look great though!

Sorry it didn't work out completely this time...

I've used one recipe for a long time but have always gotton pretty similar results. I've often made the dough ahead and kept it in the fridge; I usally let it set at RT for ~ an hour before rolling out and baking.

I must get myself to a home supply store soon and get some tiles, but--- I have gotton quite good (and reproducible) results with a thin, round pizza pan that has little holes in it. It heats up very quickly and evenly and at 500 deg F, my pizzas cook in about 8-10 min.

[Chris Amirault]

The pizzas with eggs in them, as well as a Mother's Day event I'm preparing Sunday, prompts me to play Linda Richman: "Brunch pizza. Discuss amongst yourselves."

[snowangel]

So, the dough is in the fridge (Neopolitan from American Pie). It has been there for about 5 hours, and has doubled in size. I'm thinking I should punch it down. Correct? I know next to nothing about baking bread or pizza.

[BettyK]

So, the dough is in the fridge (Neopolitan from American Pie).  It has been there for about 5 hours, and has doubled in size.  I'm thinking I should punch it down.  Correct?  I know next to nothing about baking bread or pizza.

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You don't have to punch it down. Just leave it in the fridge overnight and it will be fine.

When you're ready to bake your pizza, remove the dough and let it rest at room temp for 1 - 2 hours. This depends on the temp of your kitchen. Flour your counter, flatten the dough to about 1/2" thick, spray a little EVOO and cover the dough loosely with plastic wrap so it doesn't dry out.

[artisan02]

So, the dough is in the fridge (Neopolitan from American Pie).  It has been there for about 5 hours, and has doubled in size.  I'm thinking I should punch it down.  Correct?  I know next to nothing about baking bread or pizza.

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I am waiting to hear about this, cause I am thinking of making that dough as well..

Are you making your toppings from that book as well?

I was lucky last summer and ate at Pizzeria Bianco...what a treat! I am dying to be able to recreate at least a part of that experience, if I can... I don't have my pizza stone with me (in storage) so I might have to use the upside down pan trick to bake my pizza...

[RobinCR]

Until recently, I have not made homemade pizza's ever. I have started using - of all things - a Weight Watchers recipe. There is not much low calorie about the recipes that I can see - just portion control. Anyway, one crust recipe and one sauce recipe is enough for 2 pizza's. Both can be frozen and are just as good as when fresh.

Just yesterday morning, I took dough and sauce for 2 pizza's from the freezer and left them on the counter all day to thaw. When I came home, I did not have time to punch down the dough and let it rise again before I made the crusts. Instead I took the disks of dough and held it up in the air and turned it in a circle, letting gravity pull it to the size and shape I wanted - rather than pressing it onto the pizza pans. Then I let the crusts rest for 20 minutes or so before I put on the sauce and toppings. The crust was just as good - maybe better - than when I thaw it in the fridge for 24 hours, let it rise on the counter for a couple of hours, punch it down and let it rise again. I did make the mistake one time of refreezing dough that had thawed in the fridge. That one was tough the second time around.

Soooooo much better than Pizza Hut

[snowangel]

So, the dough is in the fridge (Neopolitan from American Pie).  It has been there for about 5 hours, and has doubled in size.  I'm thinking I should punch it down.  Correct?  I know next to nothing about baking bread or pizza.

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You don't have to punch it down. Just leave it in the fridge overnight and it will be fine.

When you're ready to bake your pizza, remove the dough and let it rest at room temp for 1 - 2 hours. This depends on the temp of your kitchen. Flour your counter, flatten the dough to about 1/2" thick, spray a little EVOO and cover the dough loosely with plastic wrap so it doesn't dry out.

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I punched it down. It was threatening to take over the fridge. Tripled in the following two hours.

I'm dough impaired, and think I need to take to bed with a cold compress and Bread Baker's Apprentice and a laptop to figure out this flour and yeast thing.

Someone asked about toppings. I have this mongo can of plum tomatoes, which are a better bet than what is in the markets right now. I have sausage, I have pepperoni, I have ramps, I have fresh mozz, I have basil (fresh, from a pot on the deck), I have onions, I have much stuff. Oh, and I have anchovies (my fav).

Given that I have kids (3 of them) and a husband, I am thinking that we will either have small pizzas, customized, or half and half (or third, third, third) pizzas.

From what I gather, it's one pizza at at time in the oven, but I figure if they are small, and the ingredients are room temp, I could do two "personal" pizzas at a time.

[ellencho]

I've been following this thread for a while now, and I have to say, everyone's pizza pics are GORGEOUS and drool worthy.

Normally, when I make pizzas at home, I usually use the Cook's Illustrated pizza dough recipe, but this time I made Reinhardt's recipe and I used his suggestion of switching out 2oz of rye flour or wheat flour for the regular bread flour and I'm glad I did.

So it was really easy to make, just mix the dry ingredients with the wet ingredients for a couple minutes until the dough clears the sides of the bowl but sticks to the bottom.

Then separate it out onto a sheet pan, but I like to rise mine in yogurt and deli containers. Let it sit in the fridge overnight.

The next day let it sit out at room temp for 2 hours before attempting to shape pizzas.

I made four pizzas tonight, one mexican, made out of leftover taco meat, tomatoes, lettuce and cilantro. The other three were just plain cheese pizzas.

I managed to get a relatively thin crust. For you spongebob fans out there, you can see a teeny bit of Mr Krabbs in the background on the television.

I really like Reinhardt's recipe. It's incredibly easy to shape and very forgiving. If anyone wants it let me know.

[rooftop1000]

Everyone keeps mentioning recipes ya mean you dont just take some warm water mix in some yeast and a little flour and wait an hour then add more water more flour and some salt till it looks right?? Thats how I do it. Unless you are taking the room temp and dividing by the temperature of the flour combined with the temp of the water multipilied by the humidity and barometric pressure....its going to come out different every time anyway.

Just kidding mostly, I really do just add flour until it feels right, I know I used to have a recipe. I think up thread, Wednesday I used a palmfull of Fleishmans yeast in the little jar, squeeze of honey, 1 cup water, and 1 cup flour wait an hour add 2 cups water and about 3-4 cups flour refridgerate overnight.

Now everyone go make pizza.... its homemade how bad could it come out

tracey

[Lisa J]

I have been away from eGullet for some time and recently returned (its a long story). I am thrilled to find the pizza bake-off, since it is my favorite thing to make at home and I know there is much room for improvement in my version.

Chufi, to your question about the dough rising overnight. there are links at the top of this thread to extensive discussions of that process.

i have a question. several of you mention freezing extra portions of your dough. do you find the results are different with the frozen versions? how do you bring it back to room temperature and the appropriate risen level? I actually have some dough in my freezer from a batch i made two weeks ago. is it better to let it sit in the fridge or at room temperature?

If this has been covered elsewhere, pls feel free to direct me to the appropriate thread. I have a lot of catching up to do, and as it is, i think I have spent most of my waking hours in front of eGullet for the past week. unfortunately, i have a job too. Now, I have to pull myself away from the discussion and experiment with all these brilliant suggestions!

Great thread and thanks to everyone for sharing your insight.

Lisa

[BettyK]

Snowangel, how was your pizza?

I've made this recipe several times and never had the problem you mentioned. I'm thinking either your water was too warm or too much yeast.

[Laura B]

I made pizza today and used the Neo-Neapolitan dough recipe from Peter Reinhart's American Pie. This was my first time using this recipe, and I am so impressed! It had great flavor, was crisp on the bottom, yet had some chewiness and got some good bubble action on the edges.

For the sauce, I used some canned crushed tomatoes and added very generous amounts of fresh basil and oregano along with salt, pepper, crushed red pepper flakes, and olive oil. With the large concentration of fresh herbs, this makes an intensely flavorful sauce.

I topped it with pepperoni, caramelized red onions, sauteed mushrooms, shredded mozarella, and freshly grated parmesan.

I must say that this was the best pizza I have ever made (having made pizza at home maybe five or six times in the past). The crust and the sauce were really stellar!

This is my first attempt to post pictures here, so I hope it works.

Here is the dough ready to be topped. I like to use parchment paper under the dough because it is so easy. This dough was a dream to work with - I got it into this perfect shape by hand (stretched over two fists while working in a circular motion).

Here is a shot of the sauce. When I said a lot of fresh herbs, I really meant a LOT!

The finished pizza. I forgot to take a picture before it went in the oven.

Crust shot. It was nicely browned and was very crisp. I baked it on a pizza stone on the bottom of my gas oven. The oven had been on for about an hour at 350 degrees while I baked brioche. So when the bread came out, I turned it to the broiler setting until it was preheated, and then put the oven on the max (550) and baked the pizza. Usually I would have preheated at 550 for at least 30-45 minutes, but since the oven had been on so long at a lower temp with the stone already in there, I skipped that part.

I used King Arthur Bread Flour. The all-purpose flour you can seeon the counter in some of those pictures was used for the brioche.

[snowangel]

I finally got around to this cookoff.

I used the Neopolitan dough recipe from Reinhart's American Pie book. It was a soft dough, and since I've not done much dough before, I was worried. Oven (pizza stone in place) was set to 550 for over an hour ahead of baking time.

As you can see, the balls are pretty blobby. I had my usual problems with plastic wrap.

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No photos of the stretching part. I started with the knuckel method, and after an initial knuckle spin, resorted to the press it out method. Lots of semolina on the peel (which is one of those insulated cookie sheets I hate to use for anything else but as a peel).

I wanted canned Italian tomatoes, so, it was off to Costco (yet another story; I have this paranoia of big stores with big parking lots, so joining Costco was a Big Move, but the fact that is is so close and the lower gas prices and my vehicle with a big ass gas tank was a draw, as are the cheap milk, eggs, Malle mustard, etc., so I breathe deep when I contemplate a trip).

So, I bought a can of tomatoes.

This is one big huge can. I crushed some in my hands, and froze the rest in managable quantities (in some zip locks I got at Costco; just hope I can use a 1,000 of them).

This, with some dried basil (the fresh stuff at the market was limp and flaccid, and some olive oil (also from Costco).

So, back to the pizzas. I shaped a crust on the dusted "peel." I dusted the peel heavily, afraid of the sticking that some have reported.

Topped the first 'za with sauce, pepperoni (not from costco) and some shredded mozz (from Costco).

Into the oven it goes. Timer set for 6 minutes.

At six minutes, we have a beautiful pizza which I didn't take a picture of, because I was busy making the next pizza.

The next one was some sauce, some italian sausage I had leftover from an Italian market near the Xcel Energy Center in St. Paul. Topped with cheese.

I did remember to take a picture of this one.

Next on to a pepperoni and ramp pizza. Yes, this is a wonderful use of ramps. Just absolutely perfect. Sauce, pepperoni, ramps and cheese.

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Finally, I did another pepperoni pizza, and an anchovie pizza (for me).

These were wonderful. The crust was crisp, but not as "holey" on the edges as I would like.

The one picture I took of the bottom didn't turn out, but it wasn't as browned as I would have liked.

And, the cheese was probably a bit too brown.

Next time around, I would try another dough from this book, and I would think about slightly pre-baking the crusts before topping.

And, I'm wondering about pre-baking crusts and taking them to The Cabin for baking in the oven or putting on the grill with toppings for great meals in bathing suits on the dock. I way to have pizza without messing around with the dough, etc.

Thoughts on my overbrowning (cheese)/under browning (bottom of crust) and the prebaked thing) are welcome.

Oh. And, I was so worried about sticking that I ended up dumping a ton of semolina into the oven and, well, between my horrible vent fan, opening all of the windows and getting every fan going, we didn't set off too many smoke detectors...

Onward and upward. Hopefully, more pizza before ramp season is over.

[Behemoth]

i have a question.  several of you mention freezing extra portions of your dough.  do you find the results are different with the frozen versions?  how do you bring it back to room temperature and the appropriate risen level?  I actually have some dough in my freezer from a batch i made two weeks ago.  is it better to let it sit in the fridge or at room temperature?

I put mine in the fridge overnight to defrost, then leave it out on the counter for an hour to come to room temperature. In terms of handling it, it is not much different from using fresh dough, since I leave that in the fridge overnight as well.