Gumbo: Cook-Off 3

[Mayhaw Man]

I like it on the thin side myself. There are absolutely two schools of thought on this, and in the right company down here a fight can break out among the thick vs. thin crowd.

I am of the opinion that the best thing about gumbo, any kind of gumbo, is the way that all of the flavors blend together, but can still be tasted as individual components. In my opinion, the use of too much roux, especially really dark roux, masks the great ingredients that you used to make the stuff in the first place. So that's where I stand on thick gumbos. Not that I don't like them or anything, I just prefer something else.

On the other hand, fricasee, as has been mentioned above by FFOR, is a fine thing and it is usually thick as mud (which, not oddly, is often called gumbo here if the base happens to be red clay, as it often is). Generally made with a roux that is somewhere around peanut butter shade, and traditionally with chicken, or goame, or tougher cuts of meat, this dish should almost be able to be SCOOPED out of the pot with an ice cream scoop. It should damn near SIT on top of white rice. like a proud crown of meat, spices, flour, and butter.

Thick has it's place, but in Gumbo I like it thin. An excellent commercial example of this is available at Black's Oyster Bar in Abbeville, LA. Most people who go there eat oysters and never get around to ordering hot food, but their loss can be your gain the next time you are on the banks of the Bayou Teche. It's a great bowl of gumbo.

[snowangel]

I like it on the thin side myself. There are absolutely two schools of thought on this, and in the right company down here a fight can break out among the thick vs. thin crowd. 

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Thanks, Brooks, from a fellow "thin" person. This sounds like the Thai food thing. Thick curry, or "thin" curry.

So, I'm going to gumbo for the first time tomorrow. Assuming that I want a thinner (runnier?) gumbo, your advice? Let's say we use fifi's recipe as a benchmark. How would you do it different?

[fifi]

I have to agree with Brooks here. (OMG! What is the world coming to?) I like my gumbo juice to be thin enough to wet down into the rice and leave a puddle at the end to be sopped up by a peice of buttered baguette. And, there are exceptions, but the dark rouxs lend themselves to stronger flavors like birds and sausage.

I do make a fricassee with beef that I have adapted from Emeril's recipe that calls for dumping beef cubes into the scorching hot dark roux. It is just amazing but is a whole different thing. It is thicker but I wouldn't say "mud."

I had a zucchini sitting on the counter. Its green. Kinda looks like okra if you squint, right?

Laniloa, thanks for my chuckle for the evening.

[hwilson41]

And one last thing: For some strange reason I've had this song running through my head all week, so I'm gonna share the joy...

Jambalay' crawfish pie, filé gumbo, 

'Cause tonight I'm gonna see my cher amio.

Pick guitar, fill fruit jar and be gay-o

Son of a gun, gonna have big fun on the bayou

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Beautiful job on the gumbo, Eden. And ol' Hank would be real proud of your taste in music .

[FistFullaRoux]

I like it on the thin side myself. There are absolutely two schools of thought on this, and in the right company down here a fight can break out among the thick vs. thin crowd. 

I am of the opinion that the best thing about gumbo, any kind of gumbo, is the way that all of the flavors blend together, but can still be tasted as individual components. In my opinion, the use of too much roux, especially really dark roux, masks  the great ingredients that you used to make the stuff in the first place. So that's where I stand on thick gumbos. Not that I don't like them or anything, I just prefer something else.

On the other hand, fricasee, as has been mentioned above by FFOR, is a fine thing and it is usually thick as mud (which, not oddly, is often called gumbo here if the base happens to be red clay, as it often is). Generally made with a roux that is somewhere around peanut butter shade, and traditionally with chicken, or goame, or tougher cuts of meat, this dish should almost be able to be SCOOPED out of the pot with an ice cream scoop. It should damn near SIT on top of white rice. like a proud crown of meat, spices, flour, and butter.

Thick has it's place, but in Gumbo I like it thin. An excellent commercial example of this is available at Black's Oyster Bar in Abbeville, LA. Most people who go there eat oysters and never get around to ordering hot food, but their loss can be your gain the next time you are on the banks of the Bayou Teche. It's a great bowl of gumbo.

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Just as a side note, Blacks sits one block from the Vermilion River. Bayou Teche runs through New Iberia, 20 some odd miles away. But Black's certainly does a good job. Although, in Acadiana, you would have to look hard to find a bad gumbo. The places that don't know how to do it right usually don't stay in business long...

[Mayhaw Man]

Dammit! I screw that up every time. I was thinking about New Iberia and writing about Abbeville. Anyway, I know how to get there. That's what's important. And the Gumbo is good.

[My Confusing Horoscope]

Here is a link to an earlier thread in the Louisiana forum on those thinner gumbos in the Lafayette, Louisiana area:

http://forums.egullet.org/index.php?showtopic=45484

[Jack Tyler]

For the past couple of months, a good number of us got together over at the eGullet Recipe Cook-Off, and made some wonderful cassoulet and then some killer char siu bao. We shared recipes from a variety of cook books, tips, stories, and photos -- and are about to do so again!

The Cook-Off is intended to be a forum at which we all can cook the same dish and share our experiences in a non-competitive, collaborative manner, making a dish:

-- that you've always wanted to make at home (and may enjoy out) but rarely have made, or haven't made successfully;

-- for which special but locatable ingredients may be used, but for which expensive special equipment is not required;

-- that includes techniques, ingredient combinations, or other elements that intrigue you;

-- from a different cuisine than that of the previous Cook-Off dish;

-- that demands some time and effort, but that rewards that effort for even those first approaching it; and

-- that motivates you to try it out, ask questions, serve it to friends, and share photos and stories.

For our third Cook-Off, we've chosen gumbo (or gumbo ya-ya), the roux-based cajun stew. Unlike char siu bao, at which I'm still a novice, I've been making gumbo since I first taught myself to cook in college, starting with Paul Prudhomme's recipe in his first book (which I was fortunate to watch the kitchen cook on a trip to K-Paul's in 1986), and working through virtually every recipe I've found.

Gumbo is an astonishingly varied dish, much like cassoulet, about which there are great arguments concerning what must or must not go into the pot: gumbo file powder (ground sassafras), crawfish, andouille sausage, okra, fish, chicken, pork, hocks.... The agreed-upon basics involve a dark roux (flour and oil paste), to which diced onions, bell peppers, and celery are added, to which a hot stock is incrementally added, to which seasonings are added, absolutely including a good batch of ground chili pepper. From there, the sky's the limit.

As it turns out, I made a massive batch of gumbo last night (with sides of collards, corn bread, and rice), most of which is being frozen for the arrival of Bebe, our daughter, due March 27 or thereabouts. I was able to use some wonderful fresh Maine shrimp and excellent monkfish tails, but: in my haste I didn't fry up the okra dipped in cornmeal to sprinkle on the top, the quality of the chicken turned out to be mediocre, and the "andouille" was chicken sausage from Whole Foods (please don't revoke my eGullet membership because of this -- ).

But, like sex, even when homemade gumbo isn't good, it's GOOD, so I'm game for another batch real soon! So get out your digital cameras and stew pots!

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Here goes my death. I grew up (if I ever did) on the Texas Gulf Coast. I would crab all day (in the early 50's) and I'd bring home a wash tub full. Mom would run over to kemah or Seabrook and grab some fresh shrimp and we'd whip up some gumbo. Although she made a roux, she'd also use okra and I loved it. I also liked to sprinkle a small amount of file' on top.... not for thickening, but the taste. I've made gumbo for nearly 50 years, now. A few years ago, I decided to try a jar of prepared roux..... and I couldn't tell the difference. Not at all. It's merely flour and oil... exactly what I use to make my own roux. An older friend of mine, who's been making gumbo for 60-65 years is ashamed of me. I'm proud of me. I can run over to Smith Point and bring back some VERY fresh oysters and whip up some tasty oyster gumbo and be eating it while he's stirring roux. What's the difference? There are only two ingredients we're dealing with here, folks.

[hwilson41]

A few years ago, I decided to try a jar of prepared roux..... and I couldn't tell the difference.  Not at all.  It's merely flour and oil... exactly what I use to make my own roux.  An older friend of mine, who's been making gumbo for 60-65 years is ashamed of me.  I'm proud of me.  I can run over to Smith Point and bring back some VERY fresh oysters and whip up some tasty oyster gumbo and be eating it while he's stirring roux. What's the difference?  There are only two ingredients we're dealing with here, folks.

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IF there are only two ingredients in the store bought roux, I'd be inclined to agree with you. Flour and oil are just that (assuming the manufacturer doesn't cheat on the type of oil ). It's the preservatives, etc., that are usually put into commercial stuff that put me off. I've never tried store bought roux, and I'm not even sure it's available here in Virginia, so can't say. Are there any "extra" ingredients in the jarred roux? And do they mention what kind of oil they use?

[Susan in FL]

Here goes my death.....  What's the difference?  There are only two ingredients we're dealing with here, folks.

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I work for Hospice. If I can be of any help to you, let me know.

...Just kidding! That was humor!

[Jack Tyler]

Here goes my death.....  What's the difference?  There are only two ingredients we're dealing with here, folks.

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I work for Hospice. If I can be of any help to you, let me know.

...Just kidding! That was humor!

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If you live in Florida and work for Hospice, I doubt that you have much time to give me a hand! ;-)

[Jack Tyler]

A few years ago, I decided to try a jar of prepared roux..... and I couldn't tell the difference.  Not at all.  It's merely flour and oil... exactly what I use to make my own roux.  An older friend of mine, who's been making gumbo for 60-65 years is ashamed of me.  I'm proud of me.  I can run over to Smith Point and bring back some VERY fresh oysters and whip up some tasty oyster gumbo and be eating it while he's stirring roux. What's the difference?  There are only two ingredients we're dealing with here, folks.

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IF there are only two ingredients in the store bought roux, I'd be inclined to agree with you. Flour and oil are just that (assuming the manufacturer doesn't cheat on the type of oil ). It's the preservatives, etc., that are usually put into commercial stuff that put me off. I've never tried store bought roux, and I'm not even sure it's available here in Virginia, so can't say. Are there any "extra" ingredients in the jarred roux? And do they mention what kind of oil they use?

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I use Kary's Cajun Roux, made in Ville Platte, LA. The two ingredients, in order, are Flour and Vegetable Oil (there IS an "anti-oxidant" added and it is the only bogey ingredient). I know, also, that there are as many different types of vegetable oils as there are cooks..... so, I'm not too concerned about that, because I like a very dark roux, and I have never noticed a difference in the taste of the roux from oil to oil, although I would imagine a REAL difference from peanut or sesame oil.... however, I'm adventurous... not demented.

[fifi]

I admit, I keep jarred roux in my pantry. I was really happy to see my groceries start to carry the lighter as well as the darker roux. I use it when I want to whip up a couple of servings of some dish. I agree with Jack that it tastes pretty much the same to me. But, for gumbo, what I would miss is the hiss, scream and smell of the trinity hitting the hot roux. I really think it adds to the experience and the flavor. I have never tried it but I wonder if you can successfully get jarred roux that hot without burning it. Does anyone have experience doing this?

[little ms foodie]

Della and I will be joining the cook off this weekend! We are going to make gumbo together, I've been on vacation so I'm just catching up.

We will be making our own roux- we're not afraid! haha!

Can anyone suggest some good starters- a restaurant here in town makes these little corn pancakes. Maybe something like that? We are going to have a whole Cajun meal (made by white northwestern girls! haha!)

[hwilson41]

Can anyone suggest some good starters- a restaurant here in town makes these little corn pancakes. Maybe something like that? We are going to have a whole Cajun meal (made by white northwestern girls! haha!)

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You'll definitely want to have some of these on hand just to kick things off . Good luck, take lots of pictures and share with us.

[Smithy]

Can anyone suggest some good starters- a restaurant here in town makes these little corn pancakes. Maybe something like that? We are going to have a whole Cajun meal (made by white northwestern girls! haha!)

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You'll definitely want to have some of these on hand just to kick things off . Good luck, take lots of pictures and share with us.

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You sneak!

[little ms foodie]

alright! I'll look for some pickled okra (good luck here in Seattle hu??)

We are thinking of making corn cakes and also a yummy salad. And beer! Is there a common beer in the south?

Edited February 16, 2005 by little ms foodie (log)

[little ms foodie]

Just got done reading the recipe posted at the beginning. This is very similar to the recipe Della and I will use from dear ole Emeril. As with all things Em this one has a bit more meat and sausage and we have 2 big guys who will be enjoying this with us so that should work out well! We'll be using canola oil as my guy has a peanut alergy. We will also brown our sausage as someone mentioned.

Gumbo Saturday here we come!

[highchef]

I think the corn cakes would be very creole..But we usually have tons of French bread and a salad. Potato salad is the standard, but I like a green salad with seafood gumbo. Abita beer goes good with anything, or Dixie. I usually have a nice dry white. There's no traditional dessert to follow gumbo...something with bananna sounds good, bananna pudding is a southern staple. Make it with Pepperidge Farms chessmen cookies instead of vanilla wafers like Paula Dean does! Have fun. Gumbo on!

[laniloa]

My report back after tasting the finished product-- its pretty good. I'm very pleased at my first effort. Some things to do differently next time (likely this week since I volunteered to bring in gumbo for the office so I can make another batch without feeling guilty about not finishing the first). I'd like to brown the sausage because I like the texture and taste of the crispy parts. I want to sweat the veggies in roux a little longer. I also want to use less roux and have the courage to go a little darker. The zucchini definitely works well and I'll be using that again. I may even add some okra since I like them too.

Fifi-- I think we need to add corn to our summer version.

[fifi]

Corn. Check.

Actually I was kinda sorta kidding about that gumbo, but the more I think about it, the more I am intrigued by the idea. I may bump up the thread in the Louisiana Forum and see if anyone has ever heard of anything like that. I mean, I have eaten and have made seafood gumbos with more and bigger vegetables but never one where the vegetables are the main star. (I don't count gumbo d'zherbs. I think of that as a whole different dish.)

[laniloa]

I took it as a joke at first too, but it has grown on me. I like the idea of a lighter gumbo you could enjoy in the summer when it might otherwise seem too heavy. A shorter simmer time, so the veg don't melt, makes sense for the heat. Maybe roast one of the prime ingredients as an analog to the smokiness of sausage.

[fifi]

AH HA!!! Roast the vegetables! Brilliant! That might also drive off some of the water that I was worried about! We may be on to something here.

[patti]

No! No! A thousand times no! <runs screaming into the night>

(But yes to jarred roux.)

[FistFullaRoux]

Corn. Check.

Actually I was kinda sorta kidding about that gumbo, but the more I think about it, the more I am intrigued by the idea. I may bump up the thread in the Louisiana Forum and see if anyone has ever heard of anything like that. I mean, I have eaten and have made seafood gumbos with more and bigger vegetables but never one where the vegetables are the main star. (I don't count gumbo d'zherbs. I think of that as a whole different dish.)

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You're making my brain hurt....

(muttering to self) Change is good. Change is good. Change is good. Change is good. Change is good...