Stupid question: Meat, how long in fridge?

[JohnN]

I know this is incredibly stupid, but how long will meat stay fresh in the fridge?

Monday, I got confused on timelines and purchased a nice piece of beef tenderloin roast for Christmas. When I got home I realized that Christmas was almost a week away which is much longer than I would normally store meat (I tend to be a bit of a freshnik).

Yesterday I vacuum packed it.

Will it keep?

Should I toss it in the freezer?

Will the vacuum packing help, hinder or make no difference?

Many thanks,

-john

[NulloModo]

I personally wouldn't worry, but then again I tend to take a lot of risks that many on this forum wouldn't when it comes to possible food poisoning...

Vacuum packed would be similar to the beef being in the original cryovac I assume though, and it can easily last a couple weeks in that, so I don't see why you have any reason to fret.

[Marlene]

If it's vacumn packed, it will be fine until Sat.

[Dave the Cook]

I would have left it out, but then, I'm a guy with a completely naked, 5-bone rib roast sitting on a rack in the bottom of his refrigerator. Since Sunday.

Still, this is interesting. Once it's out of the cryovac and exposed to the environment, is it really safe to re-vac it? Some of the nastiest bugs thrive in anaerobic conditions.

[Marlene]

I would have left it out, but then, I'm a guy with a completely naked, 5-bone rib roast sitting on a rack in the bottom of his refrigerator. Since Sunday.

Still, this is interesting. Once it's out of the cryovac and exposed to the environment, is it really safe to re-vac it? Some of the nastiest bugs thrive in anaerobic conditions.

←

Dave, it was only one day, and it was in the fridge. I suspect it will be ok. Besides, he's going to roast it. That'll kill anything.

[Dave the Cook]

I agree that under these conditions, it's safe, and I certainly didn't mean to scare anyone. I'm just wondering . . .

[rooftop1000]

Ah Dave you shame me

my naked roast has only been there since yesterday/ tuesday ....I was too lazy to go shopping sunday

tracey

[Hest88]

I've left meat in the frig for three days (okay, once it was four) without a problem. I have a strong immune system, though, so that doesn't mean I endorse that length of time!

[JohnN]

Thanks for all the replies.

It is interesting to see that based on the replies this might not be quite as clear cut as I would have thought.

It seems a couple of folks seem to imply that this shouldn't be any problem, at least based on the specifics of this case. On the other hand, Hest88 says up to four days is OK. In this case I'm looking at five days prior to cooking. I'm guessing this is pushing it about as far as is prudent, but is probably OK.

I should point out that I'm not only concerned about safety, but also freshness/taste.

BTW, I should probably mention out that I partially re-tied the meat when I vacuum packed it.

I get the impression that the vacuum packing is helpful, but that opening the package also provides the opertunity for some nasties to get in. I would assume the re-tying fits into this catagory.

I'll have to do a search on this topic, but my guess is that the references to cryovac imply vacuum packing (and then perhasps radiating?) and this provides for a couple of weeks?

Thanks again,

-john

Edit: Fridge is set to 40F.

Edited December 23, 2004 by JohnN (log)

[Dave the Cook]

Somewhat off-topic, but here's a report on the roast I mentioned up-thread.

A 10.4 pound USDA Choice five-rib roast ($5.99 per pound), after six days au naturel in the bottom of my refrigerator (36 F):

Pretty gnarly-looking, but there was no foul aroma, and no sign of mold. It trimmed out to two roasts, one two-bone (3.3 pounds), one three-bone (5.6 pounds), with 0.6 pounds of scrap:

Yield: moisture loss -- 8.7% (0.9 pounds); scrap -- 5.8%; usable meat -- 83% (8.9 pounds); net cost per pound -- $7.22.

Stupid me, I didn't get any shots of the finished roast (we did the smaller one, and stuck the other in the freezer). It wasn't Prime quality, by any stretch; it lacked the buttery texture and complex flavor of really great beef. But it was it was a huge improvement over a watery, unfocused supermarket roast taken straight from the cooler to the oven without ever leaving the shrink-wrap: slightly dense; pleasantly chewy; more than sufficiently moist; and wonderfully beefy.

[Suzanne F]

Must. Have. Meat.

[jsolomon]

I would have left it out, but then, I'm a guy with a completely naked, 5-bone rib roast sitting on a rack in the bottom of his refrigerator. Since Sunday.

Still, this is interesting. Once it's out of the cryovac and exposed to the environment, is it really safe to re-vac it? Some of the nastiest bugs thrive in anaerobic conditions.

←

True, but not in acidic and anaerobic environments. You can brush the surface with some lemon juice prior to cryovac-ing and you should be good for the requisite week.

[JohnN]

I thought I'd let everyone know how it worked out.

Roast smelled fine and tasted great. Also, it's been about 24 hrs and nobody got sick! :-)

I do think the vacuum packing helped because meat that has been in the fridge that long typically smells a bit off.

The details:

~3lb roast, seared and then put in a 400F pre-heated oven, uncovered, on bake until the internal temp got to 130F. It was removed, tented well with mutli-layers of tinfoil to rest. Internal temp rose while resting to 147F, then back down to 145F before the guests finally were ready to eat. Carved just prior to serving.

Thanks all!

-john

* I already knew the guests were running pretty late so I was attempting to make sure it didn't cool too much as I didn't want to have to re-heat it.

[polack]

Too bad a butcher hasn't responded to this thread because I wonder what they do with the meat that's in the butcher's case and doesn't sell. I'm sure they don't go and throw it away since some of these supermarkets have quite a bit of meat in their coolers. Also, in the local supermarkets they rarely have sales on meat that's about to go out of date. While watching some cooking shows on TV, they showed prime meat in a cooler for a month or more, this meat was green molded and considered prime cut.

Polack

[pam claughton]

I had this same question a few weeks back regarding a brisket. I'd bought it on a Sunday then forgot it was in there until Thursday and didn't know if I had to toss it, or if it was ok. Called my brother in-law, who sells meat, and he told me it would probably be fine, and that they've even used meat up to a week past the use by date, his grandfather, who started the business, would pour salt all over the piece of beef, rub it in, then wash it off, reasoning that any bad smells/stuff would be scraped off by the salt.

It worked. Beef was fine.

[Really Nice!]

This is not a stupid question at all. In fact more people should ask questions like this.

1. how long will meat stay fresh in the fridge?

How cold is your refrigerator? You need to know this before one can attempt an answer. I keep mine at 36F (temperature taken at the middle shelf). This is colder than most, but I get a longer shelf life on my perishables.

2. Will the vacuum packing help, hinder or make no difference?

Makes no difference. Bacteria can grow in the absense of oxygen. They become anaerobic, which is growing in the absence of oxygen. Oxygen is just one of six thinigs bacteria needs to grow. The others are the food item itself, some acidity, time, moisture, and temperature (most prosperous temp for bacteria is between 40F and 140F). Removing one does not stop its propensity to reproduce. Monitoring and responding to all six growing conditions is the best thing to do.

The best thing to do is to rinse the roast under cold running water, thoroughly pat dry, and place it, uncovered, on a rack in the bottom shelf of the refrigerator. (Raw proteins should always go on the bottom shelf.)

For a light primer on Hazard Analysis and Critical Control Point, or HACCP, see a U.S. government's Web site on the seven principles of HACCP.

[JohnN]

Very interesting. The reason I said it was a stupid question is that you'd think after all these years I'd know a bit more about this. Your post brought out even more tidbits.

1) What tempature should I keep my fridge?

I had mine set to 40F. After seeing your note about the optimal tempatures for bacteria, I turned mine down to 36F.

2) It also got me thinking about the drawers. Exactly what do the "crisper" drawers do? It seems some often the different drawers are suggested for different purposes, but how/why are they different (or are they?).

My guess here is that the main purpose of the drawers is to keep the cold air from "spilling" out when you open the main door. As for the different ones, not sure if there is any difference, but there are a few holes on the bottom of our fridge, so my guess is the bottom drawers might be a bit colder (air spillage from the freezer).

Hmm.

How can it be I'm 37 years old and don't know that much about a basic thing I use every day?! :-O

-john

[Really Nice!]

After going through my food sanitation and safety class I checked my fridge and it was 42F. I turned it down to 36F. Milk now lasts about twice as long.

Crisper drawers are supposed to keep things like lettuce and other raw vegetables crisp. However the refrigerator manufacturers put the vegetable drawers in the bottom of the fridge. I don't know why. Any restaurant found putting raw vegetables under uncooked proteins such as poultry or fowl would receive a critical violation and would be in danger of being shut down.

I now use the drawers on the bottom to thaw out my proteins. Although I occasionally see lettuce in the bottom drawer while a raw chicken thawing on a plate is on the shelf right above it.

Here's a sample of the King County (Seattle area) Sanitation Survey Report. See the second page, number 105 "Raw meats, aquatic foods or poultry stored below and away from foods that will be served without subsequent cooking." This is just the opposite of the typical refrigerator's design.

Take a look at this form. I imagine numbers 109 through 115 are violated quite often in the average home kitchen. I'm definitely guilty of 120b; I like my eggs runny. I don't know of anyone who performs 121 through 123.

[Really Nice!]

Oh, and welcome to eGullet, John! :-)

[Melic]

After going through my food sanitation and safety class I checked my fridge and it was 42F. I turned it down to 36F. Milk now lasts about twice as long.

Crisper drawers are supposed to keep things like lettuce and other raw vegetables crisp. However the refrigerator manufacturers put the vegetable drawers in the bottom of the fridge. I don't know why. Any restaurant found putting raw vegetables under uncooked proteins such as poultry or fowl would receive a critical violation and would be in danger of being shut down.

I now use the drawers on the bottom to thaw out my proteins. Although I occasionally see lettuce in the bottom drawer while a raw chicken thawing on a plate is on the shelf right above it.

Here's a sample of the King County (Seattle area) Sanitation Survey Report. See the second page, number 105  "Raw meats, aquatic foods or poultry stored below and away from foods that will be served without subsequent cooking." This is just the opposite of the typical refrigerator's design.

Take a look at this form.  I imagine numbers 109 through 115 are violated quite often in the average home kitchen. I'm definitely guilty of 120b; I like my eggs runny. I don't know of anyone who performs 121 through 123.

←

I just got a new fridge -

KA, and lo and behold, the meat drawer is at the very bottom of the fridge, with its own temperature controls. The veggie drawer is above it, with its own humidity controls. My old fridge was configured just as you pointed out, although I simply disregarded the labels and put the meat in the bottom-most container, to avoid the raw-meat-juice-as-salad-dressing problem ...

Oh, and more to the topic, I've only aged a roast once in the fridge, since I'm lucky enough to be near a family-owned grocery that sells locally raised, 28 day aged meat.. Not surprisingly, it has some devotees and some folks who won't buy it because it doesn't stay cheery cherry red long enough, or so the store folks told me. I try to cook my stuff by 1 day after the sell by date - I'm obviously more worried about chicken and ground beef than I am about steaks and roasts.

So I guess the answer to the question about how long to keep meat in the fridge is - depends on the kind of meat

Edited December 29, 2004 by Melic (log)

[polack]

Very interesting.  The reason I said it was a stupid question is that you'd think after all these years I'd know a bit more about this.  Your post brought out even more tidbits.

1) What tempature should I keep my fridge?

I had mine set to 40F.  After seeing your note about the optimal tempatures for bacteria, I turned mine down to 36F.

2) It also got me thinking about the drawers.  Exactly what do the "crisper" drawers do?  It seems some often the different drawers are suggested for different purposes, but how/why are they different (or are they?).

My guess here is that the main purpose of the drawers is to keep the cold air from "spilling" out when you open the main door.  As for the different ones, not sure if there is any difference, but there are a few holes on the bottom of our fridge, so my guess is the bottom drawers might be a bit colder (air spillage from the freezer). 

Hmm.

How can it be I'm 37 years old and don't know that much about a basic thing I use every day?!  :-O

-john

←

Most new refrig. are made with the temp. control, thermostat, being located inside the freezer section of the refrigerator. There is a dialed flapper valve that controls the cold air inside the frigerator compartment. If Im right the cold air will generally go to the bottom of the frig. and therefor the bottom part should be a bit colder. The frigs. of today are pretty simple to repair, with most of the problems being in the defrost contol timer switch. Should you have ever have a problem with the freezer working good but the frig part not cooling down, check to see that there's no obstruction, food, plastic bags, etc., that might be blocking the air flow in the openings for the condenser. Should the condenser be all iced up, but not from the obstruction listed, then check your timer motor. It should rotate and after maybe 10 to 12 hours it will shut the compressor off, let the condensor defraust and the heater turns on and boils the moisture away. One more part could be bad and that's a thermostat that's on the coils from the compressor. Check it yourself, you might have an easy problem to fix.

Polack

[crinoidgirl]

Too bad a butcher hasn't responded to this thread because I wonder what they do with the meat that's in the butcher's case and doesn't sell. I'm sure they don't go and throw it away since some of these supermarkets have quite a bit of meat in their coolers.

Polack

←

I have been wondering about this for ages. Does anyone with experience have an answer?

[snowangel]

My father is a former butcher, and the small shop he worked in regularly dry-aged beef.

Leaving WHOLE cuts of beef in the fridge -- in the coldest spot in a fridge 40 (F) or under is safe.

Further, my dad said that you would probably not achieve the same effect in your home fridge as a professional will because their dry-aging locker is humidity controlled.

My dad said he would not hesitate to leave a whole piece of meat (NOT chopped) for a couple or three weeks. He remembers that when they dry-aged at the meat market, they sometimes went as long as 6 weeks, scraping mold off as necessary. He said something to the effect that "dry aging is controlled rotting."

[polack]

My father is a former butcher, and the small shop he worked in regularly dry-aged beef.

Leaving WHOLE cuts of beef in the fridge -- in the coldest spot in a fridge 40 (F) or under is safe.

Further, my dad said that you would probably not achieve the same effect in your home fridge as a professional will because their dry-aging locker is humidity controlled.

My dad said he would not hesitate to leave a whole piece of meat (NOT chopped) for a couple or three weeks.  He remembers that when they dry-aged at the meat market, they sometimes went as long as 6 weeks, scraping mold off as necessary.  He said something to the effect that "dry aging is controlled rotting."

←

Yeh I could remember when I was a Kid, I would go to the local grocer and get meat for dinner and the butcher would cut it off a larger piece of meat, like a leg or whatever. They actually didn't have that much meat in the display case already cut up. Now what we're talking about today is that the supermarkets have large quantities of meat, that is already cut up and laying in display cases, that I dought is environmentally controlled, since they're open at the top of the cooler, how do they handle this meat?

Polack

[JohnN]

Most new refrig. are made with the temp. control, thermostat, being located inside the freezer section of the refrigerator. There is a dialed flapper valve that controls the cold air inside the frigerator compartment. If Im right the cold air will generally go to the bottom of the frig. and therefor the bottom part should be a bit colder. The frigs. of today are pretty simple to repair, with most of the problems being in the defrost contol timer switch.

I have a Kitchenaid, freezer on bottom, like this. It has seperate digital tempature controls for the freezer and the main compartment. I haven't really tried hard, but it is unclear to me exactly how the tempature is regulated in this unit. Perhaps there is the flapper as you indicate, but I just can't see it.

I just got a new fridge -

KA, and lo and behold, the meat drawer is at the very bottom of the fridge, with its own temperature controls.  The veggie drawer is above it, with its own humidity controls.  My old fridge was configured just as you pointed out, although I simply disregarded the labels and put the meat in the bottom-most container,  to avoid the raw-meat-juice-as-salad-dressing problem ...

Couple of interesting things here. I also have a KA, and I have no humidity controls at all (I wonder how the humidity controls work, hmm). Also, I looked through the user manual and it doesn't directly call out which drawer is for (raw) meat, but the picture on the web site says the top is a crisper drawer and the bottom one is a "deli" drawer. If I recall correctly, the manual refered to both as cripers.

Anyone know why a "crisper" would keep things "crisp"? AFAIK, there is nothing different inside this drawer as out, other than all the cold air doesn't spill out when you open the main door.

At the very least, mine don't have a seperate humidity control.

After going through my food sanitation and safety class I checked my fridge and it was 42F. I turned it down to 36F.

...

Here's a sample of the King County (Seattle area) Sanitation Survey Report.

Thanks for all the great information. It is really nice to get a professional perspective on this. The sanitation survey form was also very interesting, and from right here to boot!

Oh, and welcome to eGullet, John! :-)

←

Thanks! It's great to be here! :-)

-john

Edited December 30, 2004 by JohnN (log)