Traditional Pub Food

[chuck]

What made those fish and chips so special?

Any dishes that a good pub can't possibly be without?

I'd love to hear the dishes described, and where your favorites are from. If there are specialities from different areas tell me about them please.

How does Britain view the 'gastropub' movement? Is it creating a better neighborhood pub or is it pretentious?

(By the way, I think the U.K. and Ireland forum is the most interesting on egullet. To begin with the members are very active, but they also have a lot of intelligent things to say. Very candid comments seem to be pretty normal, which is great.)

[Gary Marshall]

flattery will get you everywhere on this board!

[BertieWooster]

Being a recovering veggie, I used to judge pub grub by the quality of their veggie lasagne and chips. GIven that veg lasagne was usually all I could eat, I didn't have much choice.

There seem to be three bands of pub grub developing. At the top are the real foodie pubs--The Star, The Sportsman's, most of which aren't really drinking pubs anymore.

Then there's the 'influenced by...' places which serve posh fish and chips rather than the bog standard, and it's here where there was a huge improvement up till about three years ago, and now, as Andy has complained, it's all become a bit bland. But for the chains, this is still something to aspire to (unless you're Market Town Taverns, where it's something to achieve, plus serving great beer).

ANd then there's the bog-standard pub grub. Which sometimes is just what one wants. But sometimes is awful. Had a terrible meal on Monday at the Cow and Calf. Beautiful pub, beautiful setting, fires roaring after tramp across the Moor, snow falling outside, and they serve lukewarm xmas dinner, fish and chips with sub MAcD's chips--revolting, could taste it for hours.

[Winot]

Any dishes that a good pub can't possibly be without?

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Pie. Preferably steak and kidney. Must be home-made.

[jackal10]

You need to distinguish where the food is basically grown up sandwiches, eaten with a pint at the bar, or something more serious eaten at a table with a knife and fork:

In the former category:

Ploughmans: Decent farmhouse mature cheddar, good bread, pickle - pickeld onion, Branston pickle, maybe some salad, and generous with the portion size.

Pork pie: Melton Mowbray, grey not pink meat, peppery

Scotch eggs

In the latter:

Bangers and mash, with onion gravy

Standing rib roast of beef, rare, carved before you, yorkshires, crispy roast spuds, with spouts in the winter and runner beans in the summer. In the summer the beef can be cold or lukewarm in sandsiches or salads

Treacle tart, or sponge pudding with custard. Chocolate ditto.

[chuck]

What is Melton Mowbray? You can see already that you're gonna have to do some explaining...

[Stigand]

What is Melton Mowbray?  You can see already that you're gonna have to do some explaining...

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Melton Mowbray Pork Pies. A cold pie made of ground, herb-y pork surrounded by jelly in a pastry crust. The best part of all this is that I have one in my fridge now.

More generally, I've never really thought of fish and chips as traditional pub food - sure, it's often served in pubs, but it's generally best appreciated in a proper chippie that can rely on a decent supply of fresh fish.

[jackal10]

What is Melton Mowbray?  You can see already that you're gonna have to do some explaining...

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Melton Mowbray is a place in Lecestershire in the UK, where the best pork pies come from.

Hot water suet crust, hand raised around a wooden former - no external tin, so they bulge a little, then filled with ground peppery pork forcemeat, baked golden brown, and finally any space filled with a pork stock that turns into the most delicious jelly...

There is an old tradition in those parts to eat Pork Pie for breakfast...

[John Whiting]

More generally, I've never really thought of fish and chips as traditional pub food - sure, it's often served in pubs, but it's generally best appreciated in a proper chippie that can rely on a decent supply of fresh fish.

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Good fish and chips require a constant turnover of freshly fried ingredients. Pubs just don't get the orders to maintain it, and so they usually serve partially cooked frozen portions that come to the table as soggy pulp encased in wet limp batter.

In any fish and chip establishment, you're best going at busy times when you have to wait. Beware the empty shops with already cooked fish ready to be served from under hot lights. Ask that your fish be freshly cooked. A good way to accomplish this is to ask which fish on their list aren't ready to serve. They can hardly refuse to tell you; if they do, find another chippie.

Edited December 31, 2004 by John Whiting (log)

[fisherman]

A cold pie made of ground, herb-y pork surrounded by jelly in a pastry crust.

i find the best pies use cubed pork, ground pork give too smooth a texture

[culinary bear]

faggots, mushy peas, onion gravy, and mash.

oh my.

[chuck]

Yes, well, ahem...faggots. Why don't you tell me a little bit about what makes them...

Oh, christ, how about you tell me exactly what they consist of, and how exactly mushy peas appear on the plate.

I feel like a jackass for appearing so naive, but I really am interested in getting the complete picture. I really admire the history behind these dishes, but haven't seen many of them done.

Please continue on the topic...

[Suzi Edwards]

Faggotts are wonderful! I've ben reconverted. I picked up some organic ones from my local farmer's market a month or two ago. Wonderful pungent spiced offal flavour (mainly liver) that I didn't remember. We used to have frozen Brain's (a brand, but also probably an ingredient) when I was growing up and I had avoided them for years. I have a vague recollection of having them in a restaurant once, but the ones from the farmer's market were superb.

[jackal10]

Faggots

1 lb pigs fry (liver, lights, heart, melts etc)

1 pigs caul fat

3 onions

3 oz breadcrumbs or boiled potatoes

1 oz seasoning made of

- 5 parts salt

- 1 part ground white pepper

- 1 part ground ginger

- 1 part sage

- 1 part ground pimento

Soak caul in tepid water

Cover pribs fry and the onions with water, and simmer for 1 hour

Drain off liquid (keep for gravy), add breadcrumbs, mince or whizz, ad sesonsing to taste, and beat with a fork to smooth. Cut caul into 4 inch squares, form meat into balls and place caul on each. Place in greased tin and brown quickly in a hot oven.

Mushy peas

Its important to use the big fat marrowfat peas, not the dainty frozen ones. Basically they are boiled to a mush. Chip shop ones have green food colouring added.

[fisherman]

a spoonfull of mint sauce is a good addition to chipshop mushy peas....

[culinary bear]

We had faggots on the menu before christmas as a 'bloody hell it's cold we need something stodgy on the menu' special...

if you want a copy of the recipe we use let me know; I'll post it on here.

Basically, we use lamb liver, ox kidney, ox heart and rump steak. I have the luxury of a 'kin huge hobart mixer with an industrial mincer attachment, but if you don't your local butcher (remember him?) will happily mince it for you if you buy the goodies from him.

I find pig's liver gives too strong a liverish flavour to the final dish, so the slight added expense of lamb liver is worth it.

Mushy peas are starchy dried marrowfat peas cooked to death with bicarbonate of soda until they're a rough puree. Be generous with the seasoning, and as mentioned above, mint makes a good addition.

I haven't seen Mr Brain's faggots in the shops for donkey's years. I presume the BSE scare prompted a name change, at best.

On a historical note, a faggot is an old english term for a bundle.

[fisherman]

i'd love the recipe allan, give me a chance to flex the muscles of my new mincer

[culinary bear]

This is the recipe we use, which is adapted from a Gary Rhodes recipe.

1000g rump steak

1000g ox heart

1000g lamb liver

600g onion, brunoised

8 medium cloves garlic, brunoised

1.5 tbsp picked thyme leaves

1.5 tbsp sage leaves, finely chopped

250g unsalted butter

750ml strongly reduced beef stock, ideally demi-glace if you have some lying around - if not, add 3-4 leaves of gelatine to your stock.

salt and pepper to taste

5 eggs

crepinette, for wrapping (soak in running water for 4 hours)

beef stock for poaching.

1) Trim all the meats, and pass through the medium plate of the mincer. Mince the liver last, as the tubes will clog up the blade horribly and it pays to only have to declog the mincer once.

2) Sweat off the onions, garlic and herbs in the butter. Don't colour them. Add the stock and reduce by half. Set aside to cool in the fridge.

3) Mix 1) and 2), add the eggs, and season. If you're squeamish about tasting raw mix, then fry or poach a little piece off and check the seasoning that way. Leave to set up in the fridge.

4) Take 85g lumps of mix and place in the centre of a sqaure of crepinette. Wrap as neatly as you can. Chill down, so they stand a better chance of retaining their shape when you cook them.

5) Fry in lard or dripping (I use leftover duck fat, personally) to colour on all sides, and then simmer in beef stock until tender (about 15 minutes). Leave to cook in the liquor.

Reheat in the liquor when you want to eat them.

[culinary bear]

Treacle tart, or sponge pudding with custard. Chocolate ditto.

Treacle tart was something I struggled with for a while; I never seemed to be able to find a decent recipe which gave a good result. Some advocated grated apple, some brown breadcrumbs, some white.

I've been converted to a very simple, very easy recipe :

230g ground almonds

530g golden syrup

3 eggs

285g double cream

Mix everything together, put in blind-baked shortcrust shell, cook at 150C for 50-60 minutes.

[fisherman]

thanks for the recipe allan, i have the gary rhodes one already but i like your slant on it

jon

[culinary bear]

thanks for the recipe allan, i have the gary rhodes one already but i like your slant on it

jon

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The restaurant in which I work used to be the Manchester Rhodes & Co, before it became Watersreach. The HC and Sous both worked for Rhodes, so there's a lot of use of 'tried and tested' methods (i.e. Rhodes' own). It's no bad thing, as his recipes are eminently workable.

Do check out Jane Grigson's 'English Food', though... it's a very rewarding read.

[fisherman]

workable is a good description, i rarely find any that work for me first time, but by adapting them slightly and doing things my way, i've cooked some very good things of his.