Richmond, Shanghainese Food, Xiaolong Bao

[Hue]

I've mentioned to my mom(who is doing most of the dining out for the house) about Ba Guo Bu Yi, but she wasn't impressed at all. She and her friends had tried many other Chinese restaurants in the Richmond area, and found Shanghai River to be good, as least in the xiao long bao area, so we went today for lunch.

The three of us had the pork dumplings (xiao long bao), sesame cake with beef, crispy smoked fish, a duck dish, and a crispy yellow noodle dish. One comment we all have: SUPER SALTY!

Really, everything is sooooo salty. We were drinking tea cup after cup. The pork dumplings were the only one not as salty, but there were nothing speical about them. They are also the tiniest ones I've ever seen (I don't mind their sizes actually). Almost every dish, funny enough, comes with a bed of shredded cucumber, including those beef seseme cake!

It was very crowded. We had a reservation at 11:00, and people were lining up by 12:00.

Will no go back again, I don't think.

[Tough Cookie]

Sorry to hear that you had a bad experience at Shanghai River - it may have been an off-day. We have been there several times and have not had that problem. Their xiao long bao is very good - given their smaller size, they are able to make the skin less thick that those at Shanghai Wind.

If you ever do try Shanghai River again, try their salty soy milk with a Chinese donut (ja yiau tieu). It's one of the best that I have tried in Vancouver.

[SushiCat]

We made an excuse to eat lunch in Richmond yesterday, and did our time in line at Shanghai Wind. I thought the xiaolongbao were excellent, as were the green onion cakes (best I have had in our city), our other dishes were ok - house fried noodles and we had to have dan dan noodles (even if we should not have ordered them there, they are a must try at any new spot), unremarkable.

We shared a table with two other parties - no reason not too. One of those parties was eating something I want - someone help me out. It looked like a cake made from rice, not Chinese 'rice cake' which is a noodle in my book, or what others may think of as rice cakes - puffed and eaten when looking for that oh so tasty styrofoam! Mostly used as bread substitutes ... This looked like some leftover rice mixed with other white ingredients, shaped into a square or possibly a rectangle and then fried or baked (possibly with a coating). It looked like the right thing to order.

Next time I will consider the public market, or Aberdeen, only because of just re-reading this thread.

Bill's aunt who lives in Richmond and only really eats Chinese when I force her too, was spotted pocketing a take out menu for future reference ... clearly a good sign!

[Keith Talent]

Thanks to this thread, I've now added soup buns to my personal nutritional pyramid, that's right, they are now a staple. I turfed arugula to make room for it. It now goes off cuts of steak at the bottom (hangar, flank and flat iron), then soup buns, red wine, scotch (both blended and single malt, no snobbbery here), and crowned by cigarettes.

That's some healthy eating.

For what it's worth, soup buns do seem to be entering the common vernacular as of late. I for one am eagerly anticpating Feenies foie gras and truffle version.

[nondual1]

One of those parties was eating something I want - someone help me out.  It looked like a cake made from rice, not Chinese 'rice cake' which is a noodle in my book, or what others may think of as rice cakes - puffed and eaten when looking for that oh so tasty styrofoam!  Mostly used as bread substitutes ... This looked like some leftover rice mixed with other white ingredients, shaped into a square or possibly a rectangle and then fried or baked (possibly with a coating).   It looked like the right thing to order.

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Why, you guessed right -- it is (or, used to be) left-over rice in a sense. Chinese used to cook rice with a clay-pot and when you do, a slightly-browned, very fragrant and crunchy layer of rice is left at the bottom of the rice-pot. "Guo Ba (锅巴)," or literally "that which sticks to the pot,' is then scooped out and dried further for later used. Nowadays, GB is more likely made from regular cooked-rice by frying or roasting.

When it comes time to finish a GB dish, the dried GB is deep-fried and then the steamy-hot sauce or other ingredients are poured over it. And you get lots of crackling and sizzling sound, as well as one wonderful dish of GB.

Kind of like rice crispies, come to think about it...

T&T has packaged GB from time to time, in case you want to try this at home. And Golden Szechuan on West Broadway (and Burrad) has one of the best GBs with shrimp and vegetables in Vancouver.

And a few words about Xiaolong Bao: Din Tai Fung serves perhaps one of the best modern-day XLB, although one might run into some even more exhilarating rendition of it in small shops in Shanghai. I have had the DTF version and, let me tell you, none of the ones in Vancouver really comes close. Nevertheless, the ones at Northern China Delicacy (Aberdeen Centre) are very good; unfortunately, a few other things there are far from ideal, making it difficult for me to return. But Shanghai Wind, also with very good XLB, is definitely worth going back to again and again.

Shanghai River is so inconsistent that I don't find it risk-worthy, especially at the prices they are charging. There are just better and more consistent alternatives around. Bai Yu Lan (8111 Leslie Road) also has a killer XLB, although it is kind of tucked away and not always easy to find.

Incidentally and not without much regret, the Shanghai dim sum place (Yan Yun) on Main Street in Vancouver has changed hands, now becoming a Shandong noodle place...

... makes me want to drown my sorrow by binging on XLB!!!

Edited May 27, 2005 by nondual1 (log)

[nondual1]

I don't know if this is the "authentic" method, but this recipe calls for gelatin in the broth. http://recipeview.com/Chinese/Chinese1422.htm

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Using gelatin might be considered a cop-out: the "authentic" method is to cook pork-skin (sans gras) down to get the aspic-like material. Very time-consuming.

Gelatin, which I believe is obtained from cow bone, is probably an acceptable nonetheless.

[canucklehead]

Incidentally and not without much regret, the Shanghai dim sum place (Yan Yun) on Main Street in Vancouver has changed hands, now becoming a Shandong noodle place...

... makes me want to drown my sorrow by binging on XLB!!! 

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NOOOOOOOO!

I've heard that this is the owner's MO though - start a place and then selll it. Shit - I was supposed to go to Shanghai Yan Yun for lunch today! Now I've got to figure out Plan B.

[peppyre]

damn!! i was really looking forward to lunch there today. this would be the third time in a year that this place has changed hands., hmmmmm....

[canucklehead]

That's it - I am on a mission to find a decent soup dumpling place in Vancouver. I refuse to accept that I have to cross three bridges - and get into Richmond to satisfy this basic human right. (and I am sorry boys and girls - Long's Noodle doesn't do it for me.)

Shanghai YY - why have you foresaken me?

[Shellback]

That's it - I am on a mission to find a decent soup dumpling place in Vancouver.  I refuse to accept that I have to cross three bridges - and get into Richmond to satisfy this basic human right.  (and I am sorry boys and girls - Long's Noodle doesn't do it for me.)

Shanghai YY - why have you foresaken me?

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We usually go to Ning Du on Kingsway (a block and a half east of Victoria - on the right-hand side) for our Shanghainese Dim Sum. They have excellent beef noodle soup and the XLB are very good as well. I believe the owner used to be the chef at Spring Garden (was on Main/29th Ave - now closed) so you can see the similarity in the menu selection.

[peppyre]

Ahhh...so that's where they went. Spring Garden was my favorite when i first moved into that neighborhood 8 years ago. I'll have to try Ning Du.

[BCinBC]

Thanks to this thread, I've now added soup buns to my personal nutritional pyramid, that's right, they are now a staple. I turfed arugula to make room for it. It now goes off cuts of steak at the bottom (hangar, flank and flat iron), then soup buns, red wine, scotch (both blended and single malt, no snobbbery here), and crowned by cigarettes.

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Hey Keith, so nice to have you back in the fold. Let me guess, you had some violent nicotine withdrawl symptoms last week, tried valiantly to fight them off, experienced Trainspotting-like visions of babies on the ceiling, then finally gave in and hacked a butt. With sanity returning, you are now able to turn on the computer and see what's going on on eGullet.

On the XLB front, I'm sad that I was unable to experience the Shanghai YY versions before turnover. The only other time I went there, they were closed, then Sun Sui Wah was overcrowded, and I ended up settling for really cheap dim sum. And I got what I paid for.

[nondual1]

Shanghai YY - why have you foresaken me?

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Man, I almost fell off my chair...

... Having been seated for dinner this evevning at Shanghai Wind on No. 3 Road of Richmond, I looked up from the menu and saw the chef owner of the former Shanghai Yan Yun making xiaolong bao behind the counter!!

We exchanged smiles and nods; he and the whole restaurant was so busy we didn't have the chance to chat.

But I guess the suicide watches on account of the sudden closing of Shanghai Yan Yun can stand down now...!

[PaoPao]

While we we're in Richmond Sunday we tried a place called Northern Dynasty located at 8391 Alexandra Road. I believe the owners of this place also own Tropika.

Anyway we had two orders of the xiao long bao with pork, one order of the crab, wontons in Spicy Sauce, and shredded chicken with glass noodles. Everything was delicious. We got there about 2 pm or so and there were only 3 other tables eating. I guess we just missed the big rush.

Food, service, and atmosphere were all tops.

[dimsumfan]

moderator note: merged with previous thread on Xiao Bao

Seeing this issue come up in various posts, but would love to consolidate into one thread. I'm looking for the best xiao long bao (Shanghai soup dumplings - you know, the ones with the soup INSIDE the dumpling) in Vancouver or Richmond. I've had them in Seattle, Shanghai, and Taipei - but the best I've found are at Joe's Shanghai in New York (though I must say I had plum-filled ones in Taipei that are forever in my mind). Looking for that elusive combination of delicate wrapper strong enough to hold the soup, and delicious soup and meat filling.

[*Deborah*]

Here's the thread you were looking for:

Xiao long bao.

[dimsumfan]

Thanks... just discovered it myself. If anyone has new info to add, that would be great!

[Ling]

I also got to sample three different xiaolong bao offerings, and was pleased to find that the xialong bao served at the Bejing-Shanghai Delicacies stall in the Richmond Public Market food court ranked with the best I have found in North America in the 12 years that I have been in the hunt. 

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I went to Beijing-Shanghai Delicacies in the Richmond Public Market yesterday, and unfortunately the xiao long bao were probably the worst I've ever had. The wrapper was really thick and not even steamed long enough (top pleated closure, which is thicker, was still hard), and in our box of 8 xiao long bao, ONLY TWO had ANY soup in them--the rest were punctured. The soup did have a nice flavour, but the meat inside was very dense.

(We also tried a number of items from the stall to the left of Beijing-Shanghai; were they had potstickers folded in the traditional shape. I remember canucklehead posting a picture of them. Those were really greasy, and the filling didn't have much flavour. The hot and sour soup was equally bad. The meat-filled "cakes"--dough wrapped around a flattened meatball, then pan-fried, were the best of the lot, but that's not saying much. I saw some liquid inside the pocket and slurped it up, thinking it was soup but all I got was a mouthful of tasteless grease from the meat. Disgusting.)

[dimsumfan]

I went to Beijing-Shanghai Delicacies in the Richmond Public Market yesterday, and unfortunately the xiao long bao were probably the worst I've ever had. The wrapper was really thick and not even steamed long enough (top pleated closure, which is thicker, was still hard), and in our box of 8 xiao long bao, ONLY TWO had ANY soup in them--the rest were punctured. The soup did have a nice flavour, but the meat inside was very dense.

Ling, where are the best xiao long bao you've had in Richmond or Vancouver? In fact, if you or anyone would like to list your three favorite Richmond places to eat, I'd appreciate opinions before my feeding frenzy there next month. Looking for things we might not have here in Seattle! Thanks...

[Ling]

^Are you only looking for 3 Chinese (or dim sum restaurants?) Or are you considering other types of cuisine?

Since this is the xiao long bao thread, I think the best ones are at Shanghai River and Shanghai Wind. (Many of the other posters here also like these two restaurants for XLB...and I wouldn't have found out about them if not for this forum.)

There's also Ba Guo Bu Yi that some people enjoy--that's also in Richmond, only a minute or two away from the SR and SW. While the wrapper is very thin and delicate at BGBY, I didn't enjoy the broth as much.

Other Chinese restaurants in Richmond I like at Traditional Taiwanese restaurant, Golden Szechuan, and Kirin. canucklehead has been to many more Chinese restaurants than I have though, and he's a better person to ask. I know he really likes Sea Harbour for dinner, but I haven't gone yet.

[canucklehead]

Is BGBY still open? For some reason - I think it has closed down. I think the two best places are SR or SW. I like the SR version - which is a bit more rustic.

Ling, sorry that you had a bad experience at the public market - I don't think I've been to Beijing-Shanghai. I usually go to Xian - good lamb and thick noodle soup there. Generally, the food needs the dark vinegar to cut some of the richness. The food as Xian is close to what street food is like in China.

I also like the Singaporean place right by the entrance, the laska is rich and coconutty.

Edited June 4, 2006 by canucklehead (log)

[Ling]

Yes, Xian--that's where we got the mediocre potstickers, hot and sour soup, and the meat-filled pan fried cakes. It's right next to Beijing-Shanghai. (To clarify--I meant I think I recall you posting a picture of the potstickers at Xian. ) We probably just made the wrong choices though, because we did see some food coming out that looked good, including the lamb noodle soup. They even have that item (I don't know what it's called in Chinese) where it's a really dense pancake that's cut up into cubes, and then put into a bowl of soup. I want to try that!

I don't know if BGBY is still open; the last time I was there was a year ago.

Edited June 4, 2006 by Ling (log)

[dimsumfan]

Thanks, Ling. The challenge with choosing restaurants is that quality can change over time, or even day-to-day! So it's great to get reviews of places that have been without comment for some time.

If anyone would like to chime in with their picks for Richmond, I'd love to know your:

1. Top 3 xiao long bao

2. Top 3 dim sum

3. Top 3 other Chinese restaurants

Thanks!

[bccoati]

The best Xiao Long Bao I've had in a food court is from that Shanghai stall in the Aberdeen Centre food court. Much better quality than I expected from a food court place. A serving of those plus the "Wind Sand" chicken wings from that other stall make a complete meal for me.

[canucklehead]

The best Xiao Long Bao I've had in a food court is from that Shanghai stall in the Aberdeen Centre food court.  Much better quality than I expected from a food court place.  A serving of those plus the "Wind Sand" chicken wings from that other stall make a complete meal for me.

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Wind Sand? Is that Foong Sai - where Foong mean's "Phoenix" denoting a chicken dish and Sai - is Sai Geung or Sand Ginger which is lesser galanga. Or is Wind Sand something completely different?