Home-made Pie Crust: Tips & Troubleshooting

[Lisa Shock]

Pie crust isn't affected much, neither is fruit filling. That said, you may wish to try some of the newer vodka methods because of their reliability.

Altitude affects baking because there are different amounts of air being pulled down on us, by gravity, at various altitudes. At high altitudes, you have thousands of fewer feet or air sitting on top of you.

So, if you bake a cake, and you do not adjust the recipe, the air bubbles will grow larger than they would at sea level because there's less air pressure pushing them down. That sounds good, but, the recipe isn't formulated to support those extra-large air bubbles, so they collapse pretty easily and you get a thick dense crumb, and almost no increase in height, instead of a light fluffy crumb.

Baked goods leavened by baking powder and baking soda are the most sensitive and will probably need adjustment -usually reducing the leavener. Items like shortbread, especially if rolled out thick, which are mechanically leavened by steam released from butter can benefit from an addition of extra flour. A good all-around cookbook like the Joy of Cooking will have a chart and instructions. There are also dedicated high-altitude books.

Breads might theoretically need less yeast, but adjustments aren't critical since the gluten in the flour, if developed properly can support a lot more air than pastry or cake flour. Bread will proof and rise more quickly (meaning the yeast will have less time to multiply, thus arguing for using the same amount as sea level) and may require slightly lower oven temps, but, it's difficult to generalize without seeing a formula.

Hope this helps!

[Chocolot]

I live at 5000 feet. You won't need to do much except up the oven temp 25 degrees. If you are making cakes etc, then you have more issues.

[sus]

Hey guys. This is all great information. Will be useful when I am permanently in the area, too! I am just baking these two pies so it is good to know that it will be Ok. I even found a place that has leaf lard and am excited about trying my crust with that.

Su

[Wholemeal Crank]

Have never adjusted pastry recipes when making tarts during ski trips at similar elevations.

[rooftop1000]

Would there be any difference in the thickening/setting of the filling?...Just wondering

tracey

[Lisa Shock]

Would there be any difference in the thickening/setting of the filling?...Just wondering

tracey

Nope. As you may know, altitude affects the boiling point of water, meaning that it boils at a lower temp and food takes longer to cook because the steam escapes at a lower temperature. Pies are generally baked for such a long period of time and at temperatures well above boiling, that the altitude doesn't affect significantly.

I always check pies for brown crust and reduced liquid inside before removing from the oven. Every batch of fruit is different so, every pie is different. (unless you are using canned filling, but let's not go there!) I view the baking time as a suggestion not an absolute when making pie. Pies may in general take a bit longer to cook at high altitude, but, there's no adjustments needed to fillings. Just follow good instructions, especially if using apples. Do not use Red Delicious apples in a pie filling, unless you cook them down, in a pot on the stove, first.

I lived in Santa Fe for about 15 years, at 7,540 feet, and never had any issues with pies.

Edited November 19, 2009 by Lisa Shock (log)

[Martin Baadsgaard]

Hello, just out of pure curiosity, does anyone know the practical and/or theoretical reason to use buttermilk or egg yolks in a pie crust?

I do not make nearly enough pie to test this through,

but initially I didn't see much difference in using egg yolks, compared to same recipe without.

Buttermilk crust also tends to be a more crisp kind of crust, but it doesn't seem to be because of the buttermilk especially.

Maybe it is for emulsifying? But how and why? Or maybe it is for browning?

Hope someone has a little bit of knowledge and experience on this matter

[AnnieWilliams]

I think with egg yolks, the purpose is to have the fat to protect the flour from becoming over mixed. I think the acid in the buttermilk does the same. Usually you see vinegar in the egg yolk pie crust recipes too.

[Martin Baadsgaard]

Aaah, good point with the vinegar. Vinegar weakens the gluten connections, so it makes it more tender (In contrast to salt, btw..)

I don't get the idea with the fat though? You mean it acts as a shortener, like if you mixed in room temperature butter?

That would make sense actually...

[AnnieWilliams]

Yes, generally it coats the particles of flour and makes it less susceptible to forming gluten when water is added. Think reverse creaming when baking cakes.

[Martin Baadsgaard]

Well thankyou for the reply

I am expanding my pie crust versatility, so trying to figure out what all the parameters are good for...

[AnnieWilliams]

Martin, I went on a pie spree several months ago. I bought several books off Amazon. Pie it Forward by Gesine Bullock-Prado, The Lost Art of Pie Making by Barbara Swell, and Mrs. Rowe's Little Book of Southern Pies by Mollie Cox Bryan. The last one is my favorite. The book discusses the recipes used in Mrs. Rowe's Restaurant and Bakery. She was an elderly lady who made the best pies. And believe me, when it comes to pies, I am more inclined to learn from an elderly lady who's been baking them for 70 years as opposed to a pastry chef (no offense to the awesome pastry chefs here). She does give a yolk recipe and a couple of other recipes for crusts.

[Martin Baadsgaard]

Cool, thanks, I'll have a look into those

[hatdance]

Hi there,

I run a bed and breakfast, and like to serve quiche quite often. I have a great crust recipe (from Cooks Illustrated, which uses vodka in lieu of some of the water, to avoid over-activating the gluten - I was skeptical at first, but it really does work well).

Anyhow, I roll out the crust, put it in the tart pan, wrap in saran, and store in the fridge, all the night before. However, in the morning, I find the crust needs a good 30-40 minutes of baking (pie weights in place) before it starts to be done enough, and then needs to cool slightly, before adding the quiche filling.

My question: could I go the next step and par-bake the crust the night before, allow to cool, store in an air-tight container, and the proceed the next morning? My thinking is that it will re-crisp when baked with the filling. I guess I could test it myself, but thought some of the experts here might be able to help.

Any suggestions? I know it might not seem like much, but saving an additional 30 minutes in the morning would be very helpful.

Thanks!

[HungryC]

I'd think a hold of less than a day would be fine. Moisture is the key culprit in piecrust staling, so you might consider par-baking, wrapping well, and then freezing the baked pie shells. The next day (or whenever they're used), they'll defrost beneath the quiche filling as it cooks.

[Lisa Shock]

Agree with HungryC, less than a day is fine, longer than that, or for insurance, I'd freeze. If you have freezer space, I'd par-bake a lot of them, double wrap in plastic and stack them, thus saving a lot of time.

BTW, you don't need to hold in an airtight container. It's probably better if you don't. Just make sure they are protected from dust. In a larger bakery, I'd put them on sheet pans on a speed rack and then put one of those large plastic bags over the whole speed rack. Point is, you don't want to hold in much/any moisture, you just want to keep airborne contaminents off.

[Lisa Shock]

Oh, I had one more thought, if you really want to save time, why don't you occasionally make a frittata instead? They are lower calorie and can satisfy the no-gluten crowd. And, just like quiche they can be a way to serve small amounts of scrap vegetables or meats, or leftovers.

[hatdance]

Thanks everyone. I've done the par-baking the night before twice now. Works great! Bake off as usual, cool completely, wrap in foil, hold in a cool place in the kitchen (around 70 degrees). Fill and bake the next morning, with no detectable difference.

Re frittata... yes, I frequently do those too, but need a quiche in the rotation as some guests stay for up to a week, and I don't want "what, frittata again?" faces at the breakfast table.

[Rebecca263]

My daughter brought home the most delicious local red apples this week, and wants to bake an apple pie tonight. Her first on her own pie, so exciting for me! We have vegetable shortening in the house, so I told her to make a quick shortening crust, then she asked me how to make a crust, how to make the filling, and finally informed me that the 7 cook books I've got at home unpacked do not have any pie recipes. I'm coming to my fellow eGulleteers- your go-to shortening based crust apple pie recipes. pretty please?

[Kerry Beal]

Sadly Rebecca - my go to pie crust recipe is for a lard crust - and I know that wouldn't be appropriate for you. I highly recommend adding some vodka to the liquid when you do find an appropriate recipe - the added liquid makes the crust much easier to roll - and disappears when baked.

Edited December 16, 2013 by Kerry Beal (log)

[Rebecca263]

She's making the "plain pie dough" recipe from The Settlement Cook Book*, minus the baking powder. this is the only "regular" cook book I've got out of storage right now.

As it is her first pie(at the age of 24! ) I think this classic recipe is actually a good start.

*1944 edition

[Pam R]

What kind of shortening do you have? The recipe on the back of the Crisco can makes a darn good crust.

For the filling .. I don't follow a recipe, just peel and slice a pile of apples and toss with LOTS of cinnamon, sugar, some flour, lemon juice, splash of vanilla and cubed butter if it's dairy -- leave it out for parve.

Edited December 16, 2013 by Pam R
forgot the vanilla! (log)

[Panaderia Canadiense]

I was taught 1/3 C shortening for every 1 C cake flour (cut in until short), then ice water by tablespoons just until it forms a semicoherent dough, never ever over handling. Great Gran had a steel rolling pin that could be filled with ice cubes, which she used specifically for pie crust.

For the filling, I'm like Pam R - apples with cinnamon, sugar, lemon juice, vanilla or amaretto, and about 1 tsp of manioc or corn starch. If I'm baking kosher, I leave the butter out; if I'm baking parve, I put a bit in.

Alternately, if you want a more store-bought type filling, you can stew sliced apples with a little apple juice, cinnamon, and allspice, then thicken the resulting broth with corn starch to get the gooey-oozey filling you're after.

[judiu]

Pana Can, the teknical term for that consistency is "goozey". I know, I invented it!

You can also add some finely shredded cheese like Muenster to further goozify and flavour the filling, if you like the idea... %)

Edited December 17, 2013 by judiu (log)

[Beusho]

Just starting to get into baking and I've been reading different apple pie recipes for this summer's upcoming BBQs. Some of the 2 crust apple pie recipes I've seen say to pre bake both the top and bottom crust and put the top on at the end. Does this work? I would imagine the top crust would just fall off the slices. There's been no mention of anything to adhere the top crust to the bottom crust. Anybody have experience doing this?