Una Pizza Napoletana

[snausages2000]

But, JJ what did you really have for dinner?

Surely you weren't full from your $25 slice and soda.

You must have eaten something else, later that same night.

I'm hungry just thinking about how hungry I was after

I ate at UPN...

[slkinsey]

[The crust] had the sour tang of char, even though not all of the crust was charred. . .

I tend to find that charring imparts more of a bitter flavor than a sour flavor. The "sour tang" you describe probably has more to do with the fact that Mangieri uses a natural leaven and a very long fermentation. Those lactobacilli are doing their thing.

[docsconz]

Let's restate then:

At any price, it would still not be a food item that I would go out of my way for. Traditional? possibly, I wouldn't know. But it would have been better (as in better flavored, better textured) if it were non-traditional. This is not to say that they're not doing a good job at replicating something that almost none of us have tasted, just that the something they're replicating isn't great.

That's all.

(and those who know me know that I don't have much of a problem spending $$$$ on good food)

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I have not had their pizza so cannot comment on how good it is or isn't, but if they are trying to replicate a real neapolitan Pizza, that I can comment on. I have never had better pizza than I have had in and around Naples. Perhaps it is a matter of expectation. These pizzas are not fancy. They don't come with loads of luxe ingredients, but they are the models of simplicity and the importance of top quality ingredients. So while their version may or may not be great, what they are trying to replicate, IMO, most certainly is.

[jogoode]

But, JJ what did you really have for dinner?

Surely you weren't full from your $25 slice and soda.

You must have eaten something else, later that same night.

I'm hungry just thinking about how hungry I was after

I ate at UPN...

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You're right, snausages2000! I went to Dumpling House at 8pm; what better way to counteract an expensive pizza than with a $4 dessert of dumplings and sesame pancake with beef.

I have no problem going to a restaurant and not leaving full. Some people do. I'd rather eat small meals all night than, say, pay $175 for two hours of concentrated gorging at Per Se. If you go to Una Pizza expecting great pizza and keeping in mind that you'll probably need to have a second dinner later, then you'll leave happy. It's about the experience, not about getting full. (And anyway, is there anything wrong with a second dinner? )

[The crust] had the sour tang of char, even though not all of the crust was charred. . .

I tend to find that charring imparts more of a bitter flavor than a sour flavor. The "sour tang" you describe probably has more to do with the fact that Mangieri uses a natural leaven and a very long fermentation. Those lactobacilli are doing their thing.

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Yes, it was more of a sour tang. Unlike anything I've had.

[philadining]

Stopped by tonight and had a very similar experience to jj's reported above. Indeed the very center of my "filetti" was holding a small pool of fluid, probably an accumulation of olive oil along with some moisture from the fresh cherry tomatoes and fresh mozz. As a result, that part of the pizza was a bit damp, and suffering from the dreaded tip droop.

But it quickly left my mind as I became absolutely transfixed by the flavor and texture of this pizza, the small region of sogginess just one of several notes being sung. I didn't mind it one bit, and found myself mopping up the little slick on the plate with the drier portions of the crust.

It was absolutely delicious, and intoxicating, in that I couldn't have stopped if I wanted to, and probably would have used that little knife they give you to fend-off anyone that came too close... Those contrasts of chewy and crisp, soft and burnt, sour and salty were really spinning my head around.

And yes, $22 (before tip) for a smallish pizza and a couple of tiny sodas is ludicrous, but I'll happily spend it again. It doesn't feel like buying dinner - more like contributing to a charitable foundation for the research and perfection of crust. If that's what it takes....

I never thought I had a particularly small appetite, but that pizza and a little Gelato from il Laboritorio a few minutes later kept me happy all the way back to Philly. I didn't feel the need for more food.

And I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for consumer rebellion over the prices, I was about 10th in line about 15 minutes before they opened, and there were probably that many waiting when I left. And I expect to be in that line again the next time I get to NY.

edited for typos

Edited July 3, 2005 by philadining (log)

[Daniel]

I forgot about this place will definately have to hit it up.. Thanks philadining.. Getting out of town away from the Rock Concert last night?

[philadining]

Getting out of town away from the Rock Concert last night?

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yeah, with a million people all standing shoulder-to-shoulder in Philly, it was important that I get to the East Village, just to even-out the planet's weight distribution. Happy to do my part to preserve the earth's rotational momentum. Just to be safe, I left all my money up in NY. Funny how that always seems to happen....

[Bond Girl]

The place is suppose to be a restaurant but they are only open from thursday to sunday. The pizza is supposed to be the real thang from Naples with organic ingredients blah blah. I live 1 1/2 blocks from this joint so decide to take out from here. $17 for a little pie that is good but not extraordinary. Then again, what I know about pizza could probably be written on a post it and you'd still have room left for the declaration of independence. So, the prize goes to someone out there who could explain how this joint stays in business. And, what's with the 'tude.

[philadining]

I found the obsessive, monomaniacal devotion to perfecting a particular style to be rather rewarding. Even if I lived nearby I wouldn't make it my regular pizza source, but the purity of flavors from fine ingredients, and complexity of textures from careful execution made it a thrilling dining moment for me. But I could see how one could be underwhelmed if that style didn't happen to push the right buttons.

Edited September 28, 2005 by philadining (log)

[ned]

Twenty-one dollars per pie. Twenty-one dollars. It's a good pizza. A very good pizza. But at twenty-one dollars I will not return. I had made that decision before my server asked if I wanted change on a hundred dollar bill for a fifty dollar tab. It was an extra nail in the coffin.

[Pan]

Twenty-one dollars per pie.  Twenty-one dollars.  It's a good pizza.  A very good pizza.  But at twenty-one dollars I will not return.  I had made that decision before my server asked if I wanted change on a hundred dollar bill for a fifty dollar tab.  It was an extra nail in the coffin.

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Do you believe the server saw the $100 bill clearly?

[docsconz]

The place is suppose to be a restaurant but they are only open from thursday to sunday.  The pizza is supposed to be the real thang from Naples with organic ingredients blah blah.  I live 1 1/2 blocks from this joint so decide to take out from here.  $17 for a little pie that is good but not extraordinary.  Then again, what I know about pizza could probably be written on a post it and you'd still have room left for the declaration of independence.  So, the prize goes to someone out there who could explain how this joint stays in business.  And, what's with the 'tude.

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I have never had their pizza, but a true Neapolitan pizza should not be eaten via take-out. It needs to be eaten right away or it will get soggy.

[ned]

Twenty-one dollars per pie.  Twenty-one dollars.  It's a good pizza.  A very good pizza.  But at twenty-one dollars I will not return.  I had made that decision before my server asked if I wanted change on a hundred dollar bill for a fifty dollar tab.  It was an extra nail in the coffin.

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Do you believe the server saw the $100 bill clearly?

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She looked at it and there was only one bill there to see. I dunno, maybe she didn't see it. At the time it felt like she had.

[docsconz]

Twenty-one dollars per pie.  Twenty-one dollars.  It's a good pizza.  A very good pizza.  But at twenty-one dollars I will not return.  I had made that decision before my server asked if I wanted change on a hundred dollar bill for a fifty dollar tab.  It was an extra nail in the coffin.

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Do you believe the server saw the $100 bill clearly?

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She looked at it and there was only one bill there to see. I dunno, maybe she didn't see it. At the time it felt like she had.

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There aren't too many other single bills that would warrant change from a $50 tab.

[ned]

Twenty-one dollars per pie.  Twenty-one dollars.  It's a good pizza.  A very good pizza.  But at twenty-one dollars I will not return.  I had made that decision before my server asked if I wanted change on a hundred dollar bill for a fifty dollar tab.  It was an extra nail in the coffin.

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Do you believe the server saw the $100 bill clearly?

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She looked at it and there was only one bill there to see. I dunno, maybe she didn't see it. At the time it felt like she had.

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There aren't too many other single bills that would warrant change from a $50 tab.

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That's kind of what I was thinking.

[weinoo]

Well, I finally made it to this place last night with 2 buddies - and I was surprisingly disappointed. We tried 3 of their 4 pies - maybe I just don't get it...but mine (the classic margharita) was soggy when it hit the table. And it needed salt. And it was (still) $21.

I'll still take Arturo's, Patsy's or even my (albeit imperfect) pie...

[slkinsey]

How can that be a margarita with no basil?

[weinoo]

How can that be a margarita with no basil?

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I didn't call mine a margharita, silly - I had a margharita last night - the pie in the picture is just san marzano and fresh mozz...no basil in the house.

[slkinsey]

Oh! I didn't realise that was yours. I guess that speaks well of your pizza-making!

[gregorio]

I'd like to add my comments to this thread. My wife & I just got back from our first experience at UPN, something I was very excited about, as I too have experience with the original article, having lived in Naples. My favorite there varies, but the top three are, in no particular order, Pizzeria Port'Alba, in Pza. Dante, Pizzeria Mattozzi in Pza Carita and DaMichele.

Now, most of us know that pizza is cheap food, no matter where it is made. Granted, mozzarella di bufala is more expensive in the US than it is in Italy; but its not cheap in Italy either. Pizzeria Port'Alba sells small pizzas "to go" to the students milling through the used book stores that surround the place for less than an order of french fries from the McDonalds at the other end of the piazza.

The fact that a pizza at UPN is 21.00 (!) wouldn't have bothered me that much were it closer to what I know a pizza should be. After all, driving from Philly to NYC to eat it was the biggest expense, especially with current gas prices.

I can tell you that although the quality of the ingredients was better than average, there was little resemblance to any Neapolitan pizza I ever enjoyed there. Firstly, it was a very heavy pie; the actual dough was thicker and "doughier" than it should have been. I would also guess, based on how elastic the dough was while chewing, that he has sacrificed the exclusive use of tender Italian style "00" flour for a higher protein product that handles better. Watching him pull at the already relaxed dough to form the pies, I noticed a distinct "springback" that you would never see in an Italian dough.

I don't know what perfection is worth..But I would have happily spent more just to be able to rest safe in the knowledge that I could enjoy a real "Margherita DOC" without having to board a plane. Sadly, this did not happen tonight.

[weinoo]

Ciao, gregorio - and welcome to the eGullet forums...nice to see you posting here.

Great insight on the pizza at UPN...it's always nice to hear from people who have lived and eaten in the place where an offering touted as being the "real deal" is actually from. Because what usually happens is that the people posting about how "real" and "authentic" something is have actually never had the real and authentic article.

Did you get to try any other top NY pizza "institutions?"

[gregorio]

Over the years, I have eaten just about every "New York" style pizza there is, and some are very good. I should point out very clearly that I have NOTHING against the coal/oil fired oven New York style pie (for that matter, Philly pizza is made in the same manner, and we can put a few good pies in front of you as well!). I've had the "real" Ray's (I think?), Totonno's, Lombardi's and many others less known. The one I usually end up in with the wife and kids is John's on Bleeker, which is light and well prepared. My post wasn't meant to be an indictment of pizza in the US at all. My mother was a Neapolitan trained pastry cook who came over in the late 50's, and I know first hand how recipes "morphed", due to the unavailability of ingredients, differing tastes, etc. The term coined by a chain restaurant not to be named by me is "immigrant Italian cooking", and like Tex-Mex and Americanized Chinese food, despite their less than authentic flavors, all certainly have their merits.

I have, over the years, also tried numerous "wood burning" pizzas in various restaurants all over NYC. Some have been better than others, others I believe thought that the oven itself was going to somehow bridge the gap between the ordinary ingredients and lack of passion of the pizzaiolo. It didn't. In fact, I have to agree with a previous blogger that Il Pizzaiolo in Mt. Lebanon, near Pittsburgh, has gotten much closer than most.

I don't want to be the little kid who tells the Emperor he's walking around in his underwear, and I'm sure I'll meet the same fate. But this pizza came with high recommendations, and was purported to be the real deal. Some of the reviews actually said it was better than the real deal. I'm here to say that it wasn't. Now, if it were 12.00, I'd go back and eat one again, because it wasn't a bad pie; in fact the waitress, who was a native Florentine, said to me (in Italian) that she had worse pizza in Florence. And I agreed with her, but that's not saying much either. There are countless good things to eat in Tuscany, but pizza is not one of them. At 21.00 (!), even the price gives the illusion of "I will charge what I must, but I will bring you to Naples at my restaurant". And it didn't.

Again, the experience of eating pizza in Naples for the first time is one of those epiphanic moments, precisely because the food is so "familiar" that you are not prepared for how perfect it can be. You can't know how good real pizza is until you go there and taste. And I know that DaMichele has gotten popular with American foodies in the last few years, but there are a lot of good pizza places in Naples. DaMichele is right around the corner from the University, and there are plenty of days where I'd go there simply because it was cheaper than anywhere else.

I am open to suggestions for good food anywhere, and pizza in particular, but please be careful with the use of superlatives.

[weinoo]

I don't want to be the little kid who tells the Emperor he's walking around in his underwear, and I'm sure I'll meet the same fate.  But this pizza came with high recommendations, and was purported to be the real deal.  Some of the reviews actually said it was better than the real deal.

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Thank you, gregorio, for putting into words what a few of us have long thought - not only about UPN, but about a number of highly lauded places (not just pizza) here in NYC.

My one experience (see above) at UPN left me sorely disappointed, not because I've had the eponymous pizza in Naples, but because it just wasn't that good.