Food Shutter Bug Club (Part 1)

[robyn]

Since no one more expert than I am has said anything - guess I can . I really can't comment on things like focus and colors - they look good enough to me on my notebook (perhaps they'd look different on a larger monitor). There certainly isn't too much zoom. My criticism is with the composition. The marshmallows are ok. The plate and the rest of the background and the way the marshmallows are placed in relation to them are "blah". Just don't do anything for me. To give you an example - look at the picture below. It is ok - but - like your marshmallows - it doesn't do anything for me.

[continued]

[robyn]

Now take a look at this picture. It's the exact same thing - just shot from a different angle. Has more of a sense of motion - and it draws you into the subject more. It's a more interesting picture.

I have a really good book on digital food photography. Getting good pictures of the food is only the beginning. You have to think about the food in relation to the rest of the picture (on professional food shoots - they have professional prop people!).

By the way - there is probably nothing wrong with your camera. I am shooting with what is now considered an antique. And there is nothing wrong with taking dozens of shots of a particular subject and sorting through them/editing them later. Look at how professional photographers work with professional models. Click.click.click.click.click.click.etc. Robyn

[robyn]

I understand what you're saying, and I agree to some extent, but...

The reason the pictures were not edited, is because that photo set was supposed to be a raw sample of the pictures that were taken to strictly show what the camera is capable of - not of my photoshop skills.  The 125+ photos that I posted for that set is a small sub-sample of the 1,200+ photos I took that week.  So all the photos in that set should be considered nothing more then samples from an equipment review.  Also, the only reason any of the photos in that particular set have captions on them is because I was grouping those photos together to be included in another album

If you'd like to peruse some of my other sets, you'll get a better sense of my story telling philosophy.

Snekse's Photo Sets

For an in depth story, check out our visit to Blackbird in Chicago.  There's only 11 pictures, but each picture is heavily commented to let you know my thoughts about what you see.

Dinner at Blackbird - Chicago

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Hi Snekse - Sorry. Didn't realize the collection was designed to demo the camera. Liked the Blackbird stuff a lot more. Robyn

[robyn]

Snekse, your photography is awesome.  I enjoyed looking at your blog as well.  It's evident that you are way far ahead of many of us.  Thanks for sharing your shots with us.

Robyn, I appreciate the point which I think you were trying to make.  I've been working on my editing skills.  On the other hand, there sure is something to be said for photography with no editing whatsoever, like those sample shots.  I am most proud when I get a spectacular photo out of hundreds taken and do nothing to it afterwards.  I guess it's the purist in me.

Snekse, I hope you're out of your lurker status on this thread!

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I am not a particularly skilled photographer (in terms of having an "artistic" eye when looking through the lens of my camera). And I like to photograph things like animals (which are usually moving). So my odds of getting a spectacular "raw" shot aren't terrific. Still I don't do much with most pictures. Throw 95% of them away - and crop and perhaps tune up the color/contrast a bit on the others. Like this one (note that the cropping here turned the original picture on a diagonal - looked better than a straight horizontal/vertical crop). BTW - these are all photos of food at Opus 39 - have you been there yet? Robyn

[snekse]

My criticism is with the composition.  The marshmallows are ok.  The plate and the rest of the background and the way the marshmallows are placed in relation to them are "blah".  Just don't do anything for me.

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I understand where Robyn is coming from. I think the image lacks a little depth. I'm not sure what is trying to be accomplished in the photo, but I'm assuming it was supposed to feel a bit like the many macro fuzzy shots on a lot of food blogs. Maybe a bit like this.

What I notice about this picture is that all of the cookies are in the frame, yet it's been cropped so that not all the cookies are entirely in the frame, it's been cropped to take up almost the whole frame and it has a shallow depth of field, so the front most cookie is the only cookie in perfect focus and it happens to also be dead center in the frame.

Note, the extreme depth of field in the photo above is something that's difficult to achieve with most point-and-shoot digital cameras - especially older models.

Again, I'm not sure if this is the look that you were trying to achieve, but if it was, then I'd say your image lacks a center of attention. I'm not sure if my attention is supposed to be drawn to the left most marshmallow or the group as a whole since it's pretty much all in focus and centered. I'd be interested to know how many other people were drawn to the wood background. It could play for or against this photo since the striations kind of mimic those on the marshmallows.

For examples of photos that are similar to the one above, these are some of the most popular sites that have a style using a lot of the Martha look.

http://chocolateandzucchini.com

http://www.nordljus.co.uk

http://www.101cookbooks.com/

[robyn]

"Note, the extreme depth of field in the photo above is something that's difficult to achieve with most point-and-shoot digital cameras - especially older models."

Amen to that. I am shooting with an older Kodak Easy Share. Just getting things in any kind of focus on close-ups can also be a chore (which is perhaps why I wind up throwing away 95% of what I shoot ). This is kind of typical of what you might wind up with. Note that this was a platter being passed around at an event in a restaurant. It wasn't moving faster than a speeding bullet - but it was pretty hard to get it at all.

Still - any old camera is good enough if you're learning composition - which is perhaps the most important thing in terms of taking good pictures. And if things come out a little fuzzy - you can always say that your pictures are "arty" . By the way - if you put pictures like this in a slide-show that dissolves "in" and "out" - you don't notice the imperfections as much. Robyn

[Toliver]

I didn't mind the wood background so much. The human eye performs unconscious selective editing, meaning when we say "what a great sunset!", we're not talking about the freeway in the foreground and the billboards flanking the scene on either side but are just focusing on the sunset itself. Everything else gets relegated to the "background" because it's not the subject of our focus.

That's where cropping of the photo (constraining how the subject is seen) and plating or posing of the original subject can take a so-so picture and give it visual impact as the others have posted.

Here's the same marshmallow picture, but cropped:

This was cropped in Photoshop but just about any photo post-processing program (Picasa, etc) should be able to do the same. I also adjusted the contrast and color and sharpened the photo a little which brought out the texture in the image.

So now, the wood wall in the background is just a dark backdrop and the tightness of the image constrains the viewer's eye to just the marshmallows, which was the intent of the original photo. I think a slightly stronger filler/kicker/reflector (see previous posts) on the right side would have lit the foreground faces a little better but it's still some nice marshmallows!

As for cropping, some do it when taking the actual photo, others do it after the fact like I did in this example. Keep taking oodles of photos and eventually your ratio of good photos to so-so photos will change to the better.

[snekse]

Here's the same marshmallow picture, but cropped:

This was cropped in Photoshop but just about any photo post-processing program (Picasa, etc) should be able to do the same. I also adjusted the contrast and color and sharpened the photo a little which brought out the texture in the image.  So now, the wood wall in the background is just a dark backdrop and the tightness of the image constrains the viewer's eye to just the marshmallows, which was the intent of the original photo.

I'm interested to know what exactly you did to adjust the contrast and color. It almost looks like the saturation was increased in the marshmallows. Also, you said you sharpened the image, but the background looks softened. Why would this be?

Original Image:

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[Toliver]

I'm interested to know what exactly you did to adjust the contrast and color.  It almost looks like the saturation was increased in the marshmallows.  Also, you said you sharpened the image, but the background looks softened.  Why would this be?

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The first thing I always do with a photo in Photoshop is to run the Auto Color, Auto Contrast and Auto Levels features to see whether the results look better or worse.

Sometimes it ends up a lot worse and you can always use Undo or the History palette to return the image to its original state. You can also use the EDIT>FADE function to soften the changes as you make them so, for example, any shift in color won't be drastic. The change in saturation was a result of the Auto filters.

When I increase the contrast in a photo, it usually makes whatever is light lighter and whatever is dark darker. This is why the background seems like it got softened. It's just darker. If it looks softer to you that's an optical illusion.

The sharpening (I used the Unsharp Mask...why it's called that, I have no idea) was to make the texture "pop" a little more which, to me, was one of the points of the picture in the first place. Sharpening didn't impact the background in this photo...it was the Contrast adjustment that changed it.

[harlanturk]

TILT SHIFT Technique

Another good tool for Food Photography is the TILT SHIFT Technique.

If you do not own a Tilt Shift Camera, then there is a photoshop tutorial on how to "fake" it:

http://recedinghairline.co.uk/tutorials/fakemodel

There is also a product called LENSBABIES, which is a selective focus SLR lens.

[natasha1270]

Robyn, Toliver, Snekse et al.

Sorry I haven’t been able to reply sooner, I’ve had to be away from the computer for a while. Thanks so much for your comments.

Some interesting comments re: composition. I was treating the marshmallows as a bit of still life…trying to capture color, texture and light. Not necessarily magazine-style photos. But I agree it winds up looking “static”. I guess “movement” is one of those qualities I will try to play with more in the future. I've not played around with photoshopping much either, are most digital food photos heavily altered? So far my photos are pretty straight off the camera with occasional cropping.

Earlier in this thread, I think there was some interest in having everyone photograph the same object (ie egg, fruit, slice of cake, etc). Is anyone still interested?

N.

[snekse]

Earlier in this thread, I think there was some interest in having everyone photograph the same object (ie egg, fruit, slice of cake, etc). Is anyone still interested?

There's actually a blog meme that's doing something like that called Foodography.

http://www.flickr.com/groups/foodography3/

On a somewhat related note, has anyone seen this site?

http://foodography.my-expressions.com/gall...429823578/29838

[robyn]

Robyn, Toliver, Snekse et al.

Sorry I haven’t been able to reply sooner, I’ve had to be away from the computer for a while. Thanks so much for your comments.

Some interesting comments re: composition. I was treating the marshmallows as a bit of still life…trying to capture color, texture and light. Not necessarily magazine-style photos. But I agree it winds up looking “static”. I guess “movement” is one of those qualities I will try to play with more in the future. I've not played around with photoshopping much either, are most digital food photos heavily altered? So far my photos are pretty straight off the camera with occasional cropping.

Earlier in this thread, I think there was some interest in having everyone photograph the same object (ie egg, fruit, slice of cake, etc). Is anyone still interested?

N.

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I would be interested - but it will have to be a "summer project".  We're getting ready to go to Japan now - will be back in late April - and I'm sure by the time we've caught up once we get home - we'll be talking near end of May.

I'll be taking lots of pictures in Japan - and if I wind up with anything worth while - I'll post them here.

Right now - I am working on the pictures I took last week at The Players Championship.  Wish golfers would stay put like food!  Robyn

Edited March 27, 2006 by robyn (log)

[jeniac42]

OK, so it's been a long while since I had anything better than a point-and-shoot camera. This week Amazon was having a sale, so I got a Panasonic Lumix DMC-FZ20 to play with. Since I'm at my office, the most interesting thing available to photograph was a steak and potato pizza in its delivery box.

Like I said, it's been a long time since I did any real photography, so I'd be interested in any comments on this photo. I used aperture priority at f/2.8 to try to achieve some depth of field. It proved extremely difficult; this might partially have been due to the fact that I'm just learning to use the camera. Focal length was, apparently, 19.4mm; I used the flash to try to compensate for the fluorescent lighting and let the camera auto-focus on the large piece of, um, steak on the right before framing the shot. I wanted to crop out the back, where you can see the pizza box edge, but if I'd done that I'd have lost what little DOF I did have.

I'm hoping to get more into food photography; at any rate, here's my contribution to keeping this thread hoppin' for now:

[snekse]

I used the flash to try to compensate for the fluorescent lighting and let the camera auto-focus on the large piece of, um, steak on the right before framing the shot.

Just out of curiosity, why did you use the flash to compensate for the fluorescent lighting vs. adjusting the white balance? I've found recently that using the flash tends to flatten the image some how.

[jeniac42]

Snekse, I think you're right about the flash causing the image to look flatter. I did it because it was the only technique I could remember, and for some reason using the camera's WB feature didn't occur to me. Whoops!

I will play around with it more once I have a dining room table (ie place to take reasonable photos) and a larger memory card. I've only got a 16MB SD and we all know how inadequate that is!

[chuckyoufarley]

My wife and I have an extended weekend trip to San Francisco scheduled the first weekend of June.

I have stacked a massive schedule of restaurants and would like to photo-document our dining experiences for egullet.

I have tried on occasion, very unsuccessfully, taken photos of meals in restaurants http://forums.egullet.org/index.php?showtopic=79589 (SiseFromms pics were posted from what we could salvage from my work).

The problems I have are a combination of perceived nerdiness, and difficulty with taking photos without a flash in low light situations.

I feel terrible snapping flash photos in restaurants with other folks around me and my party.

I have a really good micro size digital camera that takes great photos when all things line up.

Anyone have any instructional experience, advice on protocol and the mechanics of getting a few good non obtrusive snaps during dining?

Shaun

[Taubear]

I always pretent to photograph my dining partner but move the aim of my camera at the last minute and I alway use the flash. Nobody seems to mind me snapping off one or two shots during dinner at least I have'nt had any complaints so far. Happy Snapping

[Shalmanese]

Use a tripod, find a good location to shoot from, set it to manual shutter speed, calibrate the light metering before any plates come out and move the plate, not the camera to get it into view. Set it relatively far away from the food and, If you can, invest in a remote. If the camera is relatively out of the way and your not always fiddling with it, it should remain relatively unobtrusive and you can generally clear up most shots in post processing using judicious cropping and colour balancing.

[Gifted Gourmet]

The most excellent resource which I have found on photographing food is on Michael Ray's website which is right here.

To get the entire "picture" (a poor choice of wording), scroll down, enjoy his text, and luxuriate in his photographs which are remarkable!

[ChefCrash]

Very nice link, thanks Melissa.

I like Taubear's suggestion. In this technique you won't be able to bring the camera close enough to a plate, so using the highest resolution your camera is capable of is a good idea. In post (Photo Shop) you'll be able to crop close to the subject and still get decent resolution.

[Grub]

Great link Melissa, thanks!

[Davydd]

That Food Photography blog was indeed a great link. However, after looking quickly at the examples I don't know if it answers the question about photographing food in a restaurant, at least on an informal and impromptu basis.

I have gotten over my inhibitions. I just snap away with a small Olympus digital camera. Nobody pays any attention and they don't know you. I use a 3X zoom and try to get the camera as far away as possible and zoom in so the flash will not burn out the subject. The camera I have has a "cuisine" setting option that is suppose to make the food look better. So, I generally take two pictures, one with the normal setting and one with the cuisine setting for each shot. Generally the cuisine setting looks better but not always.

I have been photographing deep-fried breaded pork tenderloin sandwiches this past year for fun and the pursuit. I managed to throw together a web page photo library of them that you can double-click on individual photos or view them all as a slide show. Hey, I am just an amateur photographer but you can see them here...

http://www.porktenderloinsandwich.com

[ChefCrash]

That Food Photography blog was indeed a great link. However, after looking quickly at the examples I don't know if it answers the question about photographing food in a restaurant, at least on an informal and impromptu basis.

I have gotten over my inhibitions. I just snap away with a small Olympus digital camera. Nobody pays any attention and they don't know you. I use a 3X zoom and try to get the camera as far away as possible and zoom in so the flash will not burn out the subject. The camera I have has a "cuisine" setting option that is suppose to make the food look better. So, I generally take two pictures, one with the normal setting and one with the cuisine setting for each shot. Generally the cuisine setting looks better but not always.

I have been photographing deep-fried breaded pork tenderloin sandwiches this past year for fun and the pursuit. I managed to throw together a web page photo library of them that you can double-click on individual photos or view them all as a slide show. Hey, I am just an amateur photographer but you can see them here...

http://www.porktenderloinsandwich.com

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The sandwiches look very good. Can you tell a little about how they're made? Don't mean to go off topic.

[Shalmanese]

That Food Photography blog was indeed a great link. However, after looking quickly at the examples I don't know if it answers the question about photographing food in a restaurant, at least on an informal and impromptu basis.

I have gotten over my inhibitions. I just snap away with a small Olympus digital camera. Nobody pays any attention and they don't know you. I use a 3X zoom and try to get the camera as far away as possible and zoom in so the flash will not burn out the subject. The camera I have has a "cuisine" setting option that is suppose to make the food look better. So, I generally take two pictures, one with the normal setting and one with the cuisine setting for each shot. Generally the cuisine setting looks better but not always.

I have been photographing deep-fried breaded pork tenderloin sandwiches this past year for fun and the pursuit. I managed to throw together a web page photo library of them that you can double-click on individual photos or view them all as a slide show. Hey, I am just an amateur photographer but you can see them here...

http://www.porktenderloinsandwich.com

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The problem is that your using flash at all. Food never looks as good under flash as it does under natural light. Just get a tripod and set the shutter speed to very low and your food will come out much, much better.