Iron Chef America (Part 1)

[marlowe]

Based on what I saw on the program, I would definitely eat at Bayless's restaurants in Chicago (Topolo and Frontera), but would definitely take a pass on any of Flay's. The former's seemed like an adventure, but the latter's a trayful of cliches.

[fiftydollars]

I am starting to think Flay is actually a good, even great, cook after watching him put such a solid shellacking to Bayless, Sakai, et al.

I am also starting to think this isn't as much of a fix as I initially thought... I would think Steingarten wouldn't put up with it... although given, what I took as, his criticism of the other judges I am very interested in learning what scores he is giving and how these compare to the other judges. Maybe they are the ones voting for Flay.

But I still think the judging is on the up and up... don't ask me why.

Maybe I just don't see how damn good Bobby's food is. Is that it?

I've been to Mesa Grill and the shrimp taco I had was definitely good, great, but definitely not pull-my-pants-down, bocuse d'or good... And every plate in the joint sported that orange jizz Flay spews on anything he comes in contact with.

But anyway... I got off track there for a second...

As I was saying... I now dogmatically believe that Bobby Flay is a spectacularly talented cook, that won fair and square, and will prove to be a formidable ICA force.

Really. I mean it.

And I am prepared to debate all comers.

[Gul_Dekar]

As I'm watching now, I found it abhorrent that Flay only referred to Bayless as "Mister Bayless" as opposed to "Chef Bayless".

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I was just curious as to whether it really is disrespectful in the restaurant trade to address a fellow chef as "mister" instead of "chef". As far as I remember, the original show had challengers pointing fingers, slapping assistants so I thought that was worse.

[dankphishin]

I saw the show, and it was cool to see new episodes, but Bayless definitely should've won. I was salivating at Baylesses dishes, but I think diabetes would be in my future after finishing a full course of flay's shit. It just looked like too-sweet fake-ass southwestern shit, while Bayless stayed traditional, which will always win in my book. The show didn't deviate from my expectations, the judges are still pretty annoying though. That Rosengarten dude reminds me of a pig. I'm looking forward to seeing more battles with Batali and Morimoto though, those fellas have some skills.

[ken T]

Say what you want but in 2004 I ate everywhere from Pizzeria Bianco in Phoenix to Citronelle in Washington, DC, to Bobby Flay's BOLO and Mesa Grille in NYC and Flay's product was superb.

[Chris Cognac]

I agree, I have eaten at Mesa Vegas and it was great. I understand that Bayless was demanding that everyone on set refer to him as "Chef" and he was the only one to do that during the shooting of the show.

[mnebergall]

Was Flay "overcompensating" with that "stick" blender?

[bilrus]

The impression I took away from my meal of Mesa Grill in New York was that Flay's menu read better than it tasted.

[Jeffy Boy]

the judges are still pretty annoying though. That Rosengarten dude reminds me of a pig.

Is he the one who seems like he's talking with his mouth full of food, even when he's not?

Was Flay "overcompensating" with that "stick" blender?

Bobby Flay is definitely a major tool.

[Bux]

the judges are still pretty annoying though. That Rosengarten dude reminds me of a pig.

Is he the one who seems like he's talking with his mouth full of food, even when he's not?

Was Flay "overcompensating" with that "stick" blender?

Bobby Flay is definitely a major tool.

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Rosengarten? He wasn't on the panel. Perhaps you're both speaking of Jeffrey Steingarten the food critic who's written several exceptionally articulate books and who currently pens a food column for Vogue. That's the same Jeffrey Steingarten who graced these web pages by participating in a Q&A in December of 2003. He has a minor speech impediment which I believe he's artfully overcome. Jeffrey has his share of critics, I know any number of people who could hold the floor telling stories or being critical of him for the length of a long dinner party, but most of them would also admit they'd rather listen to him talk on food than watch almost anything currently on the Food Network. To not know who he is, is to have a hole in one's knowledge of culinary writing.

It's interesting that Bobby Flay has never overcome the gaffe of standing on his cutting board, while Bayless seems to have come much further in overcoming his endorsement of Burger King. Life is unfair, although I'll admit Bayless' faux pas seemed more out of place with his previous and later behavior. Nevertheless, and in spite of my personal disappointment at my only dinner in a Bobby Flay restaurant, I've heard he's easy to work with and a genuinely nice guy in person. Excuse the on running analogy to the world of professional wrestling, but Flay seems destined to be the bad boy you love to hate who wins and keeps the audience coming back to cheer the next challenger.

I do not believe professional wrestling is fixed any more than I believed Cats or Phantom of the Opera were fixed. They're scripted entertainment.

[Jinmyo]

I've only heard good things from people who have actually worked with Flay.

[Chris Cognac]

He has always been a very nice guy when I have spoken to him. His kitchen staff at Mesa vegas seamed to like him alot as well. Bobby is not boring on TV, he provides entertainment and stuff for "us" to talk about. I am telling you, have watched him cook in person a couple of times and having eaten his food, the man can cook and he knows how to make food look good!

[andiesenji]

I watched the show last night and I thought Flay's plating was too "frou-frou" for the theme based on buffalo.

There is a point where one too many sauces can needlessly complicate a presentation and that was the impression I got. If you have a good sauce that can stand on its own there is no reason to add a second or, even worse, a third to confuse the tastebuds.

I thought Baylis' were simple, elegant and appropriate for the theme ingredient.

However, not being able to taste does make a difference.

[Allura]

I finally had a chance to watch the Flay vs Bayless show. First, I watched it while mentally composing my post, which was weird in its own way.

I really didn't know much about Bayless before the show, and I was impressed with his knowledge. I thought his food looked more interesting to me then Flay's did, actually, but I'm also one of those weird folk who doesn't like fruit or sweet things with my savory dishes, so I'm prob a bad judge. I did think Flay's plates looked better; maybe it's my tv, but Bayless's looked a little too monochromatic.

From a performance PoV, I preferred watching Bayless. He had less practice at this format then Flay, presumably, yet he seemed much calmer and in control. Also, he seemed to genuinely welcome the chance to explain what he was doing, unlike Flay who seemed a bit annoyed at the interruption. But, I know someone mentioned rudeness from Flay to Bayless, but I didn't spot it.

And the chopstick thing was just weird. Eat with the utensil appropriate to the food, not the diner's ethnicity! Sheesh.

I wish there were more comments from the judges during the show, especially from Steingarten.

Oh, and I thought one of the sous chef's, Tracy (missed her last name), rocked. I want to learn to butcher like her!

[Romy]

Great thread! I'm looking forward to tonight's episode! A few comments:

YES-- I did notice J. Steingarten's comment on the other judges! It was something along the lines of "well, if no one else is going to say anything critical..." because up until that point it had pretty much been insipid praise all around. It was terrific to watch him slumped back in his chair, distancing himself from the bland personalities at the other end of the table.

And, I nodded my head in fervent agreement when he criticized Bayless for his attention to authenticity-- authentic is great, if there's a reason for sticking with tradition. Bayless said little about why he chose the traditional recipes he did for this very un-traditional Mexican ingredient. Or perhaps they edited those comments out. I couldn't taste the food, but it would have been nice of him to explain why he though buffalo was a good substitute for whatever meat was used in truly authentic preparations of his recipes.

I, too, would pay a great deal to see Bourdain slay Flay. Whose cuisine reigns supreme, indeed.

As much as Flay annoys me, and though entertainment value is given as much (or more) weight as skill on the show, that's still why I love the FoodNetwork. Where else can I see so many chefs in action, for better or for worse?

Speaking of worse, it would be great to see Rachel Ray up against Batali. She really gets my goat. It would be a joy to see her floundering in a real kitchen, in a real hurry, as opposed to her making 30-minute meals that Emeril could make in 3 minutes on his Live show. How I love to hate TV personalities!

Edited January 23, 2005 by Romy (log)

[Bux]

I am starting to think Flay is actually a good, even great, cook after watching him put such a solid shellacking to Bayless, Sakai, et al.

. . . .

But I still think the judging is on the up and up... don't ask me why.

. . . .

And I am prepared to debate all comers.

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I think Flay can be an excellent cook, but I have to ask why you think the judging is on the up and up, when the judges themselves are rather questionable choices.

[Bux]

The one good thing about Bobby Flay being on another show is that it's another opportunity to watch him flail, then try to fix his mistakes.  Knowing the limitations of your staff is a huge key to success, and his overdelegation to his Sous was the cause of the burnt chutney.  I watched his show one afternoon (when I wasn't feeling irritated enough and needed to get edgy), and watched him incorrectly use his right and left hands for drt-wet-dry breading.  They cut away as soon as he realized he'd gotten his dry hand fully breaded, and when they cut back, he was clean as a whistle.  I'm not sure if it's partly jelously of his success, but I can't help but think of him as the red-headed New York step-child of modern Southwestern.  Isn't it great when a whole region and a number of very influential Chefs (not the least of which is Chef Bayless) come up with a cuisine idea you can swipe and self-promote with?

I'm certainly not a proponent of Food MTV, but I do think this show will have a lot of positive effects on our culture.  It may not be the most perfect representation of what we do, but there are a lot of people who will now be exposed to the fact that the are great American Chefs.

I think the key to winning the competitions will be to know the particular tastes of the judges, and play to those points.  Obviously, though, they're going to favor the "Iron Chefs" they've selected.  Sad, but better than no serious cooking competition on television.

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I think the shows may be popular and probably very entertaining. I question whether the star status they confer on chefs is really good for our culture, or our food.

Knowing the limitations of your staff may be a huge key to success, but the difference between being a cook and a chef is in assembling and, if necessary, training a reliable team on which you can depend.

[Bux]

And Bayless was totally robbed. 

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. . . (personally i don't think flay deserves to be IC but that's tv for ya).. . .

. . . what i found rahter interesting and suspect was that they cut steingarten's comments on 2 of flay's dishes. . .

. . . i was disappointed by the Zagat guy, he didn't really have that much to say . . .

. . . on the subject of editing - does anyone think that there were more negative comments aired about flay's food to make viewers think Bayless was going to win and then throw the surprise final verdict or did they just use what they had?

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Sorry to take so much out of context, but I think your comments on tv and editing are key. It's only reasonable to assume the show was heavily edited for effect. At the very least it was edited to provide a more entertaining show to either the audience they suspect they get, or the one they want to attract. This is cable TV, but it's not PBS, it's commercial TV. It's hard for me to comment other than abstractly at the moment. I caught this first episode, but only out of the corner of my eye. I was cooking and don't have a good view of the TV from all points in the kitchen. I also found the opening even more grating than the one with the Japanese "Chairman." The show from Japan was exotic and camp. The American show is bizarre in a pretensious manner as far as I'm concerned and the opening sequences send a single message to me -- don't take this seriously or pay too much attention to details or continuity. We're here to keep you entertained. Don't mind the smoke and mirrors.

Editing is key. It determines who looks good or bad. Editing of the comments determines your view of the panel's view.

I am also starting to think this isn't as much of a fix as I initially thought... I would think Steingarten wouldn't put up with it... although given, what I took as, his criticism of the other judges I am very interested in learning what scores he is giving and how these compare to the other judges. Maybe they are the ones voting for Flay.

. . . .

And I am prepared to debate all comers.

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Editing of the scores . . . did I say that? I don't know that they edit the scores, just that they take all precautions to ensure they can and keep it a secret. I mean when all they report are the lump scores of three judges, even the judges can't tell if the results are fixed or not. With two judges who had little to say, even the judge whose opinion and scores would be interesting to hear can come away assuming his scores might be upset by a judge or two who had no food background to permit objective criticism.

A final point about the charades on stage. Even the sous chefs knew where to start and what to do without any orders.

Accoring to the article in the Times this week, the contestants are told two possible theme ingredients in the days before taping, and they are able to design a menu for each possibility.

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I'd assume the chefs in question had already prepared a script for their team for each theme, if they hadn't already spent hours setting up and prepared dishes for each of the two possibilities. Gimme a break. I enjoyed what I saw of the two chefs working and appreciate each of their talents, but outside of the plating, I didn't see a show that would let me score either side, nor a reason to suspect the scores given were meaningful, or even true. I hope Bayless and Flay had a good time showing off. I hear it can be fun. Otherwise these shows are far less serious than some of you give them credit for being.

[Afterburner]

Dear Food Network:

Just because someone is a restaurant industry professional does not mean they're qualified in any way to review food.

Love,

AB

[Seand04]

Wow, I understand everyone on here seems to think that Jeffrey Steingarten, is very knowledgeable about food etc. And I would not dispute that, but, how about a little bit of common courtesy?

I could not believe some of the things coming out of his mouth last night. First of all, he holds his fork like a shovel, gross, second, he said "this sausage is too hard to eat", ok, fine a bit harsh but I can live with that, then, he says to the women next to him, "can you even get your fork in that thing?" So obnoxious, then he said "this fish is so muddy"

I think that he should be critical, but with respect and class, and if he really hates a dish, give it poor ratings, that is fine. BUt, this is not American Idol, and he is not Simon, these are not Chef's trying to get a job, they are already respected Chef's. I would be curious to know what all of the Chef's think of him...

[silentryan]

I think Steingarten realizes he's the only judge willing to say anything critical whatsoever, so he feels the need to be overly harsh just to counter-balance the bland, over-complimentary comments of the others.

I do wish they would at least show the individual scorecards. Iron Chef is more a platform for the chefs to exhibit their skill and creativity than it is a "competition" proper, but I would still like to be able to see how the more credible judges scored things.

It's unfortunate that they chose to tell the competitors the "secret" ingredient. That, along with the requirement that they plate five dishes, makes ICA somewhat less exciting than the original. Things just aren't as frenetic when you are going by such a strict script. It also prevents the chefs from preparing say three dishes, one of those being an incredibly intricate masterpiece.

As far as the matchups go, I can't understand why Mario was matched up against a Nuevo Latino chef, when Bobby Flay is sitting right there. Similarly, why is Ming Tsai going up against Flay, when his cuisine is far more comparable to Morimoto's? As things are right now, you're creating an apples to oranges effect with the judging, and things come down to personal preference. Also, they need an Iron Chef French (Bouloud, Keller, etc.).

The commentary gets really tiresome when they focus so much on the actual cooking, instead of the personalities behind it. The commentary for the original Iron Chef was great because they spent so much time talking about the backgrounds of the chefs. Only so much interesting stuff goes on in an hour of cooking, so you can't devote the entirety of the commentary to it. As you can see, when you try to do so, you just start repeating yourself ad nauseum (how many times did I have to hear about Flay's damned mango chutney being tossed out? It's not like it was that difficult of a thing to re-make).

Lastly, Chairman Kaga isn't really replacable, but the new chairman is a real stooge. He is about the least interesting/charasmatic individual on the show.

[Collins]

Steingarten knows food...period. However, the problem I have with him is how pompous he seems. This could completely be the product of editing, but in the first two episodes (plus the ones they ran last year), he just comes across as if he feels he knows more than the chefs.

Other comments...Kevin Brauch really adds nothing to the show. His constant mispronunciation of the ingredients (did anyone catch "mar-JOR-um" last night...not to mention his horrendous butchering of "kombanwa") is enough to make me cringe every time he starts to rattle off what's what in the next dish.

I do agree about the new chairman's lack of charisma - the problem is, the original Kaga could never be replaced. His hysterical faces and dramatic flair were, to me, one of the main reasons I enjoyed the show - you never knew what he was going to do next. Could be after the...dare I recall it...Shatner episodes, the producers decided to downplay the chariman's role.

All in all, I've tuned in two weeks in a row and will continue to watch. It's nowhere near the original, but it's still entertaining and there are enough high points to bring me back each Sunday night.

[piperdown]

I too don't really care for the new Chairman, but at least they don't use him very much. I'm assuming they have him as a nod to the original, and have him there for ceremonial purposes. I really feel like Alton controls the show as soon as the Allez cuisine is uttered, and thank god for that. As for Kevin, he does mispronounce things, but I kind of like him. I think he's a good side-kick for Alton. Plus, if they fire him, they might replace him with Sissy Biggers, or worse....Rachel Ray (or even worse....Sandra Lee).

I would love if Bourdain was involved in this show somehow. Even a judge spot would be hilarious. imagine the crap he would give Flay, or the ribbing he's give Mario.

[Collins]

Plus, if they fire him, they might replace him with Sissy Biggers, or worse....Rachel Ray (or even worse....Sandra Lee).

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Shh...please don't invoke their names...

One other thought - I'm really looking forward to seeing Alex Lee on the show. Of all the challengers they have lined up, he's the one I'm most interested in watching.

[Bux]

One other thought - I'm really looking forward to seeing Alex Lee on the show. Of all the challengers they have lined up, he's the one I'm most interested in watching.

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Alex is a friend, but he's also probably the single most accomplished chef I've seen associated so far with the show, although he's probably a complete unknown to the TV audience. He may be the closest you'll see to a Keller or a Boulud.