Beef Short Ribs -- The Topic

[past51511]

Thanks to everyone who has gotten into short ribs. It's a treat that was introduced to me by my son and his Korean wife. They make Korean Short Ribs or Bulkogi at least twice a week and it's cooked on a outdoor grill, gas or charcoal. Basic marinade for one night in the fridge is cup of soy sauce, ginger, Oriental red pepper flakes, garlic (whole, minced, chopped, etc.), green onion chopped fine, carrot pieces if you want. The Korean method is to place the meat on the grill and cook medium well and until the outside is dark and crisp. Serve in thin slices over rice or kimchee. I know how to do all this, but have failed to find alternatives. You guys have helped and I am grateful.

[Marco_Polo]

Thanks to everyone who has gotten into short ribs. It's a treat that was introduced to me by my son and his Korean wife. They make Korean Short Ribs or Bulkogi at least twice a week and it's cooked on a outdoor grill, gas or charcoal.

Don't forget to try kalbi tchim - Korean-style soy braised short ribs. Similar marinade, brown in a dutch oven, add the marinade and water to almost cover, and slow braise for a good few hours until the meat is virtually falling off the bone. Char-grilled kalbi is of course sensational, but there are times when braised short ribs are even more satisfying. There's something about slow-cooked meat on the bone that is just so damn good.

Problem for me here in Britain is that short ribs are not a normal cut of meat, so I'm living a life of deprivation. Occasionally I ask my butcher nicely to prepare some for me, but it's quite a fag to do so and the result is never quite the same as I grew up on.

I sometimes dream of kalbi...

MP

[bloviatrix]

Problem for me here in Britain is that short ribs are not a normal cut of meat, so I'm living a life of deprivation. Occasionally I ask my butcher nicely to prepare some for me, but it's quite a fag to do so and the result is never quite the same as I grew up on.

If you're in city with a kosher butcher go in and order flanken. They should carry the cut.

Edited May 4, 2004 by bloviatrix (log)

[bleudauvergne]

Chinese vinegar is the dark one that is normally used for dipping jiaozi.

Boil ribs for one hour with herbs. Marinate for as long as 1 day. Remove the ribs, incorporate corn starch to the marinade, and paint on the ribs while they cook (either under the broiler or on the barbeque) to make a thick brown sweet/sour sauce.

[Shannon_Elise]

My first and still favorite foray into short ribs was Thomas Keller's "Pot Au Feu" from the French Laundry Cookbook. It consists of marinated boneless shortribs seared and then braised (in a very strong homemade white veal stock)for about 6 hours I think, then refridgerated, wrapped in caul fat, seared again and warmed in the sauce. Roasted bone marrow tops the whole deal, I just made myself verrrrry hungry.

Shannon

[cjsadler]

When cooking short-ribs, I usually just brown and then braise in some sort of red wine/broth mix. But in looking over some recipes for short ribs by two big-wig chefs (Trotter and Keller), I was struck by the fact that both have you marinate the ribs in wine overnight. I'm curious about this. Does it really have an effect? Seems to me that the long braising time would infuse the wine flavor enough and marinating would be superfluous (and it certainly doesn't have anything to do with tenderizing, as they'll get tender enough with braising). Can anyone explain why they advocate marinating short ribs overnight?

[KatieLoeb]

When cooking short-ribs, I usually just brown and then braise in some sort of red wine/broth mix. But in looking over some recipes for short ribs by two big-wig chefs (Trotter and Keller), I was struck by the fact that both have you marinate the ribs in wine overnight. I'm curious about this. Does it really have an effect? Seems to me that the long braising time would infuse the wine flavor enough and marinating would be superfluous (and it certainly doesn't have anything to do with tenderizing, as they'll get tender enough with braising). Can anyone explain why they advocate marinating short ribs overnight?

As meat goes, short ribs are pretty "stringy" and tough. Like any acidic marinade, the wine will denature the protein and tenderize the ribs. The longer the better, so overnight sounds about right. I do this with a whole London Broil as well - stick it in a big zip-lock bag with wine and seasonings, close the bag almost the whole way and suck out as much air as possible so the meat is really coated closely by the wine. Works like a charm - you can cut the meat with your fork by the time it'd done.

[JAZ]

As meat goes, short ribs are pretty "stringy" and tough. Like any acidic marinade, the wine will denature the protein and tenderize the ribs. The longer the better, so overnight sounds about right. I do this with a whole London Broil as well - stick it in a big zip-lock bag with wine and seasonings, close the bag almost the whole way and suck out as much air as possible so the meat is really coated closely by the wine. Works like a charm - you can cut the meat with your fork by the time it'd done.

Well, I can see marinating London Broil, but that's cooked "dry" and quickly. If you're braising short ribs, I can't see the reason either (three hours braising in wine or beer will make the toughest short rib meat fall off the bone).

[cjsadler]

As meat goes, short ribs are pretty "stringy" and tough.  Like any acidic marinade, the wine will denature the protein and tenderize the ribs.  The longer the better, so overnight sounds about right. 

Keller says this isn't the reason he does it: "Marinating does not tenderize meat, and alcohol doesn't either".

[Carlovski]

Yep - this is another one of those cooking myths, like salting water to keep vegetables green or sealing meat to keep in juices.

Wine does not tenderise meat - if anything it has a drying effect. It may well add flavour though.

[jsolomon]

Base for protein, acid for bone...

What the acidity in the wine may do is make the bone more porous and allow some of the flavors from the cooking of the bone better access to the rib meat.

But, wine, being a biological product filled with (yes, this is true) the spilled contents of grape cells and yeast cells is quite a milieu of wonderous proteases, polymerases, ligases, restriction enzymes, etc etc etc some of which may still be active, most of which are not anymore. To say that it's the acidity of the wine doing all of the work... eah

Suffice it to say it does something... magical

[chefdg]

Yep - this is another one of those cooking myths, like salting water to keep vegetables green or sealing meat to keep in juices.

Wine does not tenderise meat - if anything it has a drying effect. It may well add flavour though.

I can't say I agree with anything you just wrote.

On to the subjest. Marinating a cooking are two different things, that produce two different results. Just use a wine that you would also drink. Something not from a box.

[ademello]

This is another one of those tough ones... a legend like Keller is hard to argue with, but it's not the wine itself that 'tenderizes' the meat - it's the alcohol. As Katie points out, the alcohol denatures the protien in the beef, which at an optimal point of tenderizing will lead to less 'stringy' meat. If you leave the meat in the marinade too long, it will end up being mushy.

I braise weekly, and to be honest, I no longer marinate the short ribs in wine since it has a minimal effect on the final dish. If you do marinate it, you'll find that the meat is less 'stringly' but more slushy/mushy. I prefer to go the non-marinade route and allow the meat to chill in its braising liquid for a few days to mellow a little, which I find leads to a much tastier dish.

[Lactic Solar Dust]

I think the best way to find out what kind of impact does the marinating of short ribs overnight has is to actually execute this method and then taste it. I have seen chefs marinate whole beef tenderloins in red wine for up to three days with garlic and rosemary. At Tru, a restaurant in Chicago, they marinate their tenderloin in extravirgin olive oil, rosemary, and garlic overnight.

I would think that by marinating overnight it will serve to impart some great flavor to the meat. Also, Thomas Keller uses the marinating liquid as the braising liquid, too, after he clairifies it. I would think that the braising liquid has some initial flavor from the shortribs even before the braising process has been started.

[Ruth]

I've done the short ribs both ways -omitting the marinating when I have been short of time. There is no doubt in my find that a couple of days prior marination produced a more flavorful and succulent dish.

[Stagiaire]

This is another one of those tough ones... a legend like Keller is hard to argue with, but it's not the wine itself that 'tenderizes' the meat - it's the alcohol.

Keller's red wine marinade has the alcohol cooked off, so alcohol tenderizing the meat has nothing to do with it. I'm pretty sure it's all about flavor....

[rhinopias]

I had braised short ribs with kumquats at a restaurant last night, they were outstanding. The aromatics from the fruit were wonderful. Any idea of a recipe thats published or that I can modify to make this dish at home?

Jim

[RonC]

I had braised short ribs with kumquats at a restaurant last night, they were outstanding. The aromatics from the fruit were wonderful. Any idea of a recipe thats published or that I can modify to make this dish at home?

Jim

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Hmmmm short ribs are on the menu for tomorrow night (they should have been a couple of days ago but the butcher screwed up). Anyway -- with kumquats??? -- gotta think about that.

Sidecar Ron

[chefjack]

Try braising your shortribs in orange juice and star anise, chicken stock and a touch of honey; and then top the cooked short ribs with a kumquat gelee and some sea salt, and pour the sauce around the base. Gelee's are pretty straightfoward - just cooking the fruit adding pectin and referigerating till firm, cut into squares or just scoop in on (see the Christmas Bon Appetite if you still have it around). Mashed sweet potatoes would be good with that and maybe some roasted beets, parsely root or turnips.

Hope that helps

[dockhl]

I understand what brining poultry and pork achieves but I've never brined beef.

I am reading a recipe for Braised Beef Short Ribs from Tra Vigne which calls for brining.

Do you think this is a flavor infusion rather than succulence enhancer?

[woodburner]

I've brined beef chuck roasts on a few occasions and would agree with the synopsis, of flavor enhancer. I've read other peeps say that beef turns mushy when brined, that has not been my experience.

While I must say, that about 4 hours has been my uppermost limit regarding brine time with beef.

woodburner

[chef koo]

i do'nt get the point of brining something before braising. the flavor is going to be absorbed into the meat anyways.

[dockhl]

i do'nt get the point of brining something before braising. the flavor is going to be absorbed into the meat anyways.

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Kind of my thought......wouldn't you just infuse the flavors of your braising liquid?

[Jmahl]

Seems to me to be an unnecessary step with questionable results. Braising is about long slow cooking in a liquad to break down fibers and infuse flavor. the consenses seems to be -- does nothing good.

[snowangel]

Doesn't brining beef corn it?