NYC Pizza Survey

Pan · February 9, 2004

In the Brooklyn Mobilize! thread, Caserta Vecchia got some praise for its pizza, among other things. Sounds like it has wood ovens. Perhaps it should be on our list for an eventual taste test?

JosephB · February 16, 2004

Dear fellow pizza surveyors. Can I please have votes for next Saturday or Sunday lunch at Grimaldi.

BTW, I spoke to a someone at Grimaldi who told me that a line often develops by noon on the weekend. I think we may be able to reserve, especially if I can flash some eG credentials. If we can't, it may be very hard to get one table for more than 6 - 8 people. For now, I need a show of hands.

JosephB · February 18, 2004

Joe... what is the set up there? Can you see the oven like we could at Di Fara? What do you think is the chance we could call ahead and sweet-talk them into having a peek behind the scenes?

The oven area is definitely open, and can be approached without too much interference. I will definitely contact them about a behind-the-scenes look.

slkinsey · February 18, 2004

Let's keep this as a running list of attendees and edit as appropriate:

Grimaldi's, Sunday 2/21 @ 12:00 PM

JosephB & Donna

alacarte

slkinsey & bergerka

sherribabee

SarahD

Pan (if well)?

Edited February 18, 2004 by slkinsey (log)

slkinsey · February 18, 2004

Can anyone supply really, really explicit directions for getting to Grimaldi's, please?
I'm not very familiar with the area.

The web site has some information. By public transportation, it looks like the way to go is to take the A/C to High Street (first stop in Brooklyn) and do the short walk down to the bridge.

Or can I meet up with anyone on the NYC side to show me the way there?

Keep tuned to this station.

JosephB · February 18, 2004

Can anyone supply really, really explicit directions for getting to Grimaldi's, please?
I'm not very familiar with the area.
The web site has some information. By public transportation, it looks like the way to go is to take the A/C to High Street (first stop in Brooklyn) and do the short walk down to the bridge.
Or can I meet up with anyone on the NYC side to show me the way there?
Keep tuned to this station.

Speaking of the Grimaldi site, it's worth noting their thoughts on "What makes a great pizza."

slkinsey · February 18, 2004

Speaking of the Grimaldi site, it's worth noting their thoughts on "What makes a great pizza."

Hmmmm... seems like they say it's ingredients, expertise and equipment... sounds familiar, no? :wink:

JosephB · February 21, 2004

Let's keep this as a running list of attendees and edit as appropriate:
Grimaldi's, Sunday 2/21 @ 12:00 PM
JosephB & Donna
alacarte
slkinsey & bergerka
sherribabee
SarahD
Pan (if well)?

8 looks like the final tally.

I called Grimaldi's this morning. The woman I spoke to wouldn't take a reservation, but told me that we should have no problem getting a table at noon on Sunday. She also told me that someone named Chris would be happy to talk to us about the pizza making operation at Grimaldi's.

See you tomorrow.

As an aside, while we're in Brooklyn Heights we may want to consider getting a cone at Brooklyn Ice Cream Factory -- it's excellent. Or we may want to take a stroll over to the Jacques Torres chocolate place in Dumbo.

tommy · February 21, 2004

Has anyone ever been to the Hoboken location?

another very "loose" relation to the original, a la Brooklyn Brick Oven Pizza in Edgewater, Hackensack, and Ridgewood. in my experience, it's not even as good as Brooklyn's, so i can't imagine it's noteworthy when compared to the original. although i've never been to the original, so what do i know.

edit: apparently, it's a closer relationship, according to their website at least. i stand corrected. however, i still don't think it's as good as Brooklyn Brick Oven.

Edited February 21, 2004 by tommy (log)

Jason Perlow · February 21, 2004

Really? I don't even consider Brooklyn's to be that good either. The sauce tastes like nothing and entire pizza is pretty much underseasoned.

tommy · February 21, 2004

Really? I don't even consider Brooklyn's to be that good either. The sauce tastes like nothing and entire pizza is pretty much underseasoned.

maybe it's a question of taste, then. i like the Hackensack location, but not Ridgewood. so maybe Grimaldi's hoboken is more to your taste?

slkinsey · February 23, 2004

We're running out to C46, so I'll post more detailed comments later. For now, some pictures:

Here's the oven. We were told "no pictures of the oven." Oh well...

Here is our "reference standard" plain cheese and tomato pizza:

Plenty of char on the underside:

Here is a look at the interior of the crust, showing the effect of a hot coal-fired oven:

Next was a sausage pizza:

A slice of sausage:

Roasted red peppers:

A slice with peppers:

An onion and olive pizza:

JosephB · February 23, 2004

I respond very badly to a cold welcome, but I made the best of the chill that greeted us at Grimaldi's today. Sam was fortunate enough to get one photo of the oven before he was shut down by the fellow making the pizzas. I spoke to the guy who appeared to be in charge, thinking he would veto the pizza maker's edict, but he told me that he couldn't help us. When I settled for asking a few questions about the operation, initially there was a silence from the rather glum looking staff. Finally, the in-charge guy broke his heart and provided Sam and me with answers to a few of our questions. Here's what we learned:

1. Grimaldi’s receives 2-five thousand pound shipments of coal per year from Penn., which it stores in a coal bin in the basement.

2. The coal-fired oven prohibition in NY only applies to Manhattan.

3. The oven at Grimaldi never cools to more than warm, and it only takes one-half hour to fire it up at the start of the day. After that, the fire is stoked only once before dinner.

4. The sausage is from some shop in Astoria.

5. Grimaldi's recently opened a store in Scottsdale, Arizona. The code there requires that coal shipments be sealed in plastic.

At that point, Sam rightfully thought we had over-stayed our welcome at the pizza prep area, so we sat down. For the next two hours we enjoyed superb pizza in a classic pizza parlor atmosphere. With Luciano Pavorotti singing on the jukebox, for a moment it felt like we were in Naples.

Excellent photos Sam! And thanks to all for another delightful afternoon!

woodburner · February 23, 2004

Great job.

I'm wondering, in contemplation of the "coal" comment.

Is this lump charcoal, I assume it is.

Humphrey is located in PA, and they are a major supplier of lump here in the Northeast.

If my comment is irrelevant to your review, I apologize in advance.

But once again, good job regarding the interogation, and eating the evidence. :laugh:

woodburner

Pan · February 23, 2004

The pizza was excellent. One thing that came up is that the quality of the crust varies depending on how hot the oven is, so that I found the pizza margherita we got first to be inferior to the great sausage pizzas and the olive and onion pizza. The olive and onion pizza had the most Neapolitan-like consistency, as I recall, with more sauce than the others. I appreciated the thin crusts, which made the pizzas in general more like Neapolitan pizza (that is, pizza from Naples, Italy, not something else being called "Neapolitan") than any others I've had in the U.S. The sauce was also excellent. Grimaldi's lacks some of the deluxe ingredients DiFara's has, like those fabulous baby artichokes, the porcini that are often available, and the baby eggplants, but the sausages were sensational and full of fennel! Their onions were sweet and cooked just the right amount, and the black olives were pretty salty (I defintely wouldn't have wanted them saltier), but tasty. It's also a very different kind of operation than DiFara's. DiFara's has a two-person staff - Dominick and whichever of his children is doing prepping that day - and seating is very limited. Grimaldi's is a sit-down restaurant with something like 15 tables (I didn't count them). I noticed that there was a man who got roughly cylindrical (flat and round) pieces of dough from boxes a few feet from the entrance to the bathroom, put some fresh flour on them, and did a rough pounding. He then flipped them to another man, who flattened them out to a wider diameter and methodically added toppings, all of which had been laid out in advance in containers. Both men did some tending of the oven.

After eating pizza, we went to the Brooklyn Ice Cream Factory and had some nice ice cream.

It was nice seeing everyone, and I'm sorry I didn't catch up with you later. I walked to just about the end of Front St., realized that I had missed the chocolate place, walked back a few blocks and found someone who told me the place I was looking for was on _Water St._, but that it was closed, so you must have left. No harm done.

Edited February 23, 2004 by Pan (log)

slkinsey · February 23, 2004

I'm wondering, in contemplation of the "coal" comment. Is this lump charcoal, I assume it is.

Nope, it's the mined fossil fuel variety rather than charcoal, which is made by burning wood in a low oxygen environment. Probably anthracite coal, as I assume bituminous would burn too dirty. They burn the stuff right in the oven where the pizze are made.

bergerka · February 23, 2004

Well, better late than never!!! My church service ran way the hell over, so I made it just in time for a piece each of the sausage and black olive pizzas. That turned out to be just the right amount, since we then hit the Brooklyn Ice Cream place (I loved the peaches & cream, but next time I'm getting the coffee--the bite I had was just spectacular) and then later slkinsey, Eric Malson and I made our way to China 46. :blink: I can't believe my jeans still fit.

The pizza was just super. The crust had a lot of flavor and just enough salt, the sausage was juicy and delicious and the olives were salty and slightly chewy and terrific. For me, though, the appeal of the pizza was how well the various ingredients mingled...you got a variety of textures with every bite.

I missed the attempts to get information from the staff at the beginning, but even after I was there their attitudes left much to be desired. Would it kill the waiters to smile?

K

Pan · February 23, 2004

I missed the attempts to get information from the staff at the beginning, but even after I was there their attitudes left much to be desired. Would it kill the waiters to smile?
K

I'm guessing that the staff probably don't care much what customers think of them. Given the amount of business they do, it's a wonder that they care enough to continue making excellent pizzas, except that I figure they know that's why they have so much business in the first place. But putting on the charm for customers? Fuggedaboutit.

By contrast, DiFara's has business up the wazoo, too, but Dominick is a pussycat, and I believe he gets pleasure from the response he gets from his customers. Seems to me that Grimaldi's is primarily motivated by their bottom line, and they probably feel like they know their pizzas are good and if you don't like something, tough. The next group waiting outside for your table will like it.

That said, the experience was pretty pleasurable for me, but I'd probably feel different if I had showed up on time and gotten the chilly reception the others had.

woodburner · February 23, 2004

I'm wondering, in contemplation of the "coal" comment. Is this lump charcoal, I assume it is.
Nope, it's the mined fossil fuel variety rather than charcoal, which is made by burning wood in a low oxygen environment. Probably anthracite coal, as I assume bituminous would burn too dirty. They burn the stuff right in the oven where the pizze are made.

Ok, but..

this certainly needs more explanation. As most anthracite coal is mixed with different additives to make stuff like Kingsford, which never burns very hot.

I'll look around, but accept your explanation, for now.

woodburner

Rachel Perlow · February 23, 2004

Wow, great looking pizza. I would love someone to comment on the sauce itself. Like Jason mentioned above, we find the version at the relative's place in Hackensack to lacking in salt/flavor.

We had to go to a bris on Long Island, so no chance of coming, but... Sunday was the 22nd, not the 21st. :raz:

Sam, bergerka -- in case you are looking for a place to tell us all about your dinner at China 46...

JosephB · February 23, 2004

Wow, great looking pizza. I would love someone to comment on the sauce itself. Like Jason mentioned above, we find the version at the relative's place in Hackensack to lacking in salt/flavor.
We had to go to a bris on Long Island, so no chance of coming, but... Sunday was the 22nd, not the 21st.

Rachel,

The sauce is definitely a simple preparation of uncooked crushed or peeled tomatoes with probably nothing more than salt and pepper added. It has a natural tomato taste with good acid balance.

I can't speak to the Hoboken store, but it may be that Jason prefers a pizza sauce with more zing, which is often achieved with garlic, thyme, and/or oregano. I prefer the purer and simpler tomato flavor of the tomato sauce at the Brooklyn Grimaldi's.

At first, Pan was in Jason's camp. But then he saw what the addition of a topping or two could do to spice up the pie. The sausage was excellent, as was the sausage and roast pepper combination. A few bits of it permeated the pizza with a delicious spicy fennel flavor. The oil-cured black olives (pitted on premises) and onions were a delicious salty-sweet combination that really brought the pizza to life.

We'll have to go together sometime.

Jason Perlow · February 23, 2004

The pies look and sound very similar to Brooklyn's Pizza in NJ, which market themselves as Grimalidis heritage pies.

And yes, I prefer a sauce with zing.

TrishCT · February 23, 2004

Wow, those photos look great. This thread is extremely helpful to NY visitors, because people argue about different pizza places to the nth degree... but seeing photos helps to clarify the oral history.

From your descriptions and pix, Grimaldi's looks like the kind of place I would take my family to because that's the kind of pizza we like.

One question... Pizza cooked in wood fired ovens tends to lose a lot of character once it starts cooling, and is best eaten as hot as possible....is that the same for coal fired Grimaldi's?

Edited February 23, 2004 by TrishCT (log)

JosephB · February 23, 2004

One question... Pizza cooked in wood fired ovens tends to lose a lot of character once it starts cooling, and is best eaten as hot as possible....is that the same for coal fired Grimaldi's?

Absolutely the same Trish. Very simple solution. We were 8 people. We ordered one pie. When it arrived, we ordered the next one. We did this four times. I ate each of my four slices at the optimum moment. Obviously, if you have a smaller group you have to eat fast to get perfection!

TrishCT · February 23, 2004

Joseph, I totally agree with you, that's the way to do it, and we order like that when in a large group as well. Some people can't get past the fact that pizza of this type is best eaten piping hot. Definitely gonna get the gang together for a trip soon to Grimaldi's!

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