Japanese foods--kudamono

[torakris]

there was also a lot of talk about them in this thread:

http://forums.egullet.org/index.php?showtopic=55637

[MomOfLittleFoodies]

See if you can find some that were grown in California. I get satsumas, clementines and fairchilds that are grown in the Central Valley and they are very sweet.

[melonpan]

i wonder if thats why ive had good luck...

[torakris]

For those who are in Japan or have evaten them in Japan do you have any favorite types? names or growing areas would be helpfiul....

I want some really sweet ones...

[Hiroyuki]

For those who are in Japan or have evaten them in Japan do you have any favorite types? names or growing areas would be helpfiul....

I want some really sweet ones...

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I am not particular about any specific variety.

People will tell you that smaller ones (M and S sizes) are better than bigger ones (L and 2L sizes), flat ones are better than round ones, and those with small stem ends are better, and so on.

The following link provides as many as eight tips for selecting good mikan:

http://www.ja-arida.or.jp/mikan/miwake.htm

(Japanese only)

But, they are not very practical, don't you think?

My suggestions would be:

1. How about trying the classical way of getting mikan? Just go to a greengrocer's and ask them to deliver a box of good mikan. Ask them a lot of questions until you decide which particular box to buy. Of course, they will let you sample some mikan.

In the 1960s and the 1970s, when I was a child, this was the common way to get mikan.

I highly recommend this method if you have a greengrocer nearby.

2. How about trying online shopping?

Get mikan with their sugar content guaranteed (糖度保証)!

http://store.yahoo.co.jp/organic/ocy357.html

3. At the supermarket, select an expensive bag of mikan rather than the cheapest one.

[Chef Metcalf]

When I lived in Japan, about 5 years ago,  I had the most delicious sweet "mandarin" (not sure if that's what they are really called) oranges. Now that I'm in Canada I can't get the same sweetness and the amount of white, stringy pith is too much.

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Butter

I've wondered the same thing a hundred times after also living in Japan for a few years.

The other day I came across some clementines from Morocco in Safeway and bought a few to see if they came anywhere close to the sweetness of the ones in Japan.

While they weren't as good as what I remembered from Japan they were 100% sweeter than the Mandarins from China that we ususally see in boxes here.

They made great orange juice and pretty good eating too.

If do ever find any, please post for the benefit of your fellow gaijins.

[Hiroyuki]

These days, I often see mikan with a sugar content of 10 for sale at a local supermarket. I find these mikan good enough for me. I think mikan with a sugar content of 12, 13, or greater are so sweet that I can't eat many of them.

More than 30 years ago, when I was a kid, mikan were the only fruit we had in the winter. We used to buy them in boxes and had tens of them while warming ourselves in the kotatsu until our hands turned yellow.

Up to two or three years ago, my wife and I used to buy mikan in boxes, but now we usually buy them in bags because we just can't consume all the mikan in a box before they turn moldy.

[torakris]

These days, I often see mikan with a sugar content of 10 for sale at a local supermarket.  I find these mikan good enough for me.  I think mikan with a sugar content of 12, 13, or greater are so sweet that I can't eat many of them.

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Where do you see this written?

[Hiroyuki]

These days, I often see mikan with a sugar content of 10 for sale at a local supermarket.  I find these mikan good enough for me.  I think mikan with a sugar content of 12, 13, or greater are so sweet that I can't eat many of them.

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Where do you see this written?

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The sugar content is indicated right at the point of purchase. Not in the supermarkets in your area?

[torakris]

These days, I often see mikan with a sugar content of 10 for sale at a local supermarket.  I find these mikan good enough for me.  I think mikan with a sugar content of 12, 13, or greater are so sweet that I can't eat many of them.

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Where do you see this written?

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The sugar content is indicated right at the point of purchase. Not in the supermarkets in your area?

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I never noticed it before....

I will look tomorrow.

[Sobaicecream]

I just received a very fragrant karin (かりん) from my in-laws and was advised to chop it up and submerge the thing in honey, after which I...can't remember what I was supposed to do. But it eventually becomes a hot beveage.

First of all, what exactly is a karin?

Second, is there a more economical treatment for karin? As anyone living in Japan knows, honey in *so* expensive (but maybe this is the case all over the world?), and the amount of honey I'll need to submerge my karin will be considerable.

Any info would be very welcome!

[torakris]

karin is sometimes called a Japanese quince.

It is supposed to be ggod for colds and sore throats, you often see it in syrup form in the supermarkets especially this time of year.

Here is more info on it in English:

http://www.planetbotanic.ca/fact_sheets/ja...herbs/karin.htm

and here is a Japanese page to help you with the sryup making:

http://www.u-san.ne.jp/cook/cook2.htm

[Sobaicecream]

Thanks so much, torakris! I tried googling for karin, and kept coming up with girls named Karin. Argh. But then I just *knew* you'd help me find some good links.

What would we do without you?

Edited December 20, 2004 by Sobaicecream (log)

[torakris]

I was talking to a friend about karin and she mentioned karinshu 花梨酒 (karin liquor).

I found this recipe:

http://www.oh-media.com/pc-seminar/shironeya/karin.htm

[torakris]

and this:

http://homepage.mac.com/funayama/iBlogs/C1...21/E1012094157/

karin jam

[pirate]

From another website:

"At the Sapporo Central Wholesale Market, the first yubari melons of the year were snapped up at ¥600,000 a pair."

What are yubari melons?

[JasonTrue]

See, for example: http://www.bigempire.com/sake/yubari.html

Yubari is in Hokkaido, and the Yubari King is apparently a hybrid that particularly took to Yubari's soil.

[v. gautam]

I have heard so much praise for the Hami melons and the grapes from the arid west of China; are any of these imported and sold in Japan?

Torakris, Hiroyuki, and others,

When you have the time, please do continue telling us more about specific exquisite fruit varieties in Japan.

For example, Torakris mentions an apple with a syrupy interior; what is its variety name? where is it grown? etc.

Japanese strawberries like "Akihime" have been bred for 12-14% sugar, far greater than the 8% found in the sweetest commercial European cultivars. Plus there is the painstaking cultivation of these.

It is so wonderful to learn new horticultural details of a land as fascinating as Japan. The link on the melons would be the type of information I would appreciate very much.

I have seen pictures of meticulously trained figs and peaches, and hope someone will be tell us more about these and specialty grapes. There are even mangoes being grown in greenhouses in Japan!

Edited June 3, 2005 by v. gautam (log)

[sanrensho]

It was only after Japan started doing a lot of agricultural trade with Washington State in the last several years did Apples became more commonplace and relatively inexpensive.

As Smallworld pointed out, this is not true. If that's the way CNN reported it, then it's misinformation.

When I moved to Japan in '92, Japanese apples were plentiful and could be had for as little as 50 yen/piece in Tokyo. By the time I left in '98, US apples were commonly available at supermarkets but the price of Japanese apples wasn't affected. (It's been awhile since I've visited, so I don't know what the situation is now.)

The US varieties being sold in Japan at the time were no competition for Japanese apples, at least from the standpoint of Japanese preferences in an eating apple. Furthermore, the US product didn't have the highly-prized "mitsu" like a good Japanese apple, so they were two distinct products from the point of view of the Japanese consumer. Sort of like comparing apples and, er, oranges.

As for quantifying "inexpensive," I always thought that Japanese apples were inexpensive and great value considering their size (Japanese apples are typically huge!) and the cost of living in Tokyo.

Edited June 3, 2005 by sanrensho (log)

[sanrensho]

For example, Torakris mentions an apple with a syrupy interior; what is its variety name? where is it grown? etc.

The syrupy interior is referred to as "mitsu" and, for Japanese, is highly prized as an indication of an apple's sweetness. (I have no idea if this latter part is actually true.) Basically, an amber "vein" that shows up in the cross-section of the apple. Found in Fuji apples and I'm pretty sure other Japanese varieties. Fuji apples from Washington and BC also sometimes have "mitsu," but not always.

My wife comes from an apple growing region and has relatives who own an orchard, so she's pretty picky about her apples.

Edited June 3, 2005 by sanrensho (log)

[JasonTrue]

One thing that is also true is that eating fruit was often a mark of privilege in Japan. One of my friends (about 15 years older than me, now in her mid-40s) said that in her home only her father was really allowed to consume the fruit that appeared in their household, often including more humble fruits like apples.

The Fuji hybrid that is grown in Japan produces much different fruit in Washington and BC. It has a similar kind of sweetness, but is rarely as big as a Japanese Fuji.

That being said, the distribution layers and cost of living affect the price of apples in Japan. I don't know if the US apples are subsidized like other agricultural commodities, but unlike in-season Washingon apples, 69 cent per pound or even 99 cent per pound apples are pretty darned unlikely in Japan, and probably have been rare for quite a long time. Considering how much fuel costs in Japan compared to the US, and considering that there are often multiple interests in a typical wholesale transaction, it's a wonder when a consumer at an urban supermarket can get any apple for less than a hundred yen, even if grown outside Japan.

One problem I did find in Japan is that sometimes quite beautiful apples were bland and starchy, but this problem occurs quite a lot with out-of-season apples or improperly stored ones here as well. I remember being unimpressed by an apple brought to us by special request at a restaurant about a month or two after the peak of the apple season (our mistake for asking for something not on the menu, I guess).

[sanrensho]

The Fuji hybrid that is grown in Japan produces much different fruit in Washington and BC. It has a similar kind of sweetness, but is rarely as big as a Japanese Fuji.

As someone who loves Japanese apple varieties, I have to say that the situation on this side of the ocean has improved dramatically. Five years ago, NZ Gala apples were my default eating apple for their crispness and sweetness, since Fuji apples weren't commonly available. Nowadays, Fuji (or "Fugi" as it is often misspelled) apples are as common as our traditional North American varieties, at least here in Vancouver. The size of the local Fuji apples has also increased, and the flavor (and percentage with mitsu) seems to improve with every passing year.

The imported Chinese Fuji apples we get here in Vancouver are also interesting, but lack the sweetness and density of the real thing. Good crispness, but least similar to the real thing.

NHK had a fascinating documentary on the development of the Fuji apple last year, and the trials and tribulations it went through before achieving widespread popularity in Japan.

Edited June 3, 2005 by sanrensho (log)

[Hiroyuki]

Here is what I previously wrote about the mitsu in apples:

This syrup is not honey but sorbitol, a type of sugar, resulting from plant photosynthesis. "Mitsu" is likely to appear in late varieties such as Fuji.

To your surprise, the portion with "mitsu" is LESS sweet than other portion of the apple. Mitsu disappears overtime because sorbitol changes into fructose, which is SWEETER.

Other websites describing that it is false that apples are injected with honey:

http://www.yrd.or.jp/nitibeni/apple.htm

http://www.uranai-fan.com/ringo/mitsuiri.htm

(Both in Japanese only)

[sanrensho]

Interesting. For those who don't read Japanese, the sites that Hiroyuki linked to state that an abundance of "mitsu" in an apple is an indicator of ripeness, and that apples with "mitsu" tend to be sweeter as a whole.

I'll have to tell my wife about the "injecting apples with honey" myth. She'll get a laugh out of that.

[torakris]

I have heard so much praise for the Hami melons and the grapes from the arid west of China; are any of these imported and sold in Japan?

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Though I could be wrong here, I don't think I have ever seen fresh fruit from China. A couple years back there was problem with some frozen vegetables coming out of China and most Japanese I know now avoid food coming from China. We were just having a dsicussion about this in my cooking class last week as a couple people said tehy always check the package (on both fresh and frozen foods) to make sure it isn't from China....