Japanese foods--tsukemono

_john · June 16, 2006

I'm looking for a Japanese pickle recipe but I can't seem to find it. It is a cabbage pickle, I'm pretty sure it is shiozuke, it includes thinly sliced lemon. I'm not sure if uses hakusai or regular cabbage, I can't remember. I've had it at several different restaurants so I'm assuming it is something that is well know. One especially delicious version included fresh tomato. Any ideas?

helenjp · July 2, 2006

Sorry, I was sure somebody had answered this by now.

It's either a type of "momi-zuke" (salt rubbed into vegetables, allowed to stand 10 minutes or so, squeezed, dressed, and served) or "asa-zuke" (salt or a shoyu mix mixed into vegetables and left half a day or overnight).

Momi-zuke

About 1 tsp coarse salt for 1/8 of a cabbage. Cut the cabbage into shreds or peices, as you like.

Add other vegetables such as wakame or 1/2 a Japanese cucumber or a chunk of daikon, sliced finely (add a little more salt if using a fair amount).

Add shreds of fresh ginger or green shiso leaves if you like.

Rub in salt.

Cut a lemon into quarters vertically and add 1/4 to 1/2 a lemon, finely sliced. Add to mix, put whole thing in a ziplock bag, and toss in fridge for 10 minutes...or half a day...

Squeeze gently, toss, and serve. Dress with a little soy sauce or ponzu (soy/citrus juice mix) if desired.

Asa-zuke mix: Buy a liquid pickle concentrate and pour into a baggie of prepared vegetables until about 1/3 of the veges are covered.

Alternatively, make the home-made mixture below and use a teaspoonful with vegetables, put in a ziplock bag or a screw-type mini pickler, and store in the fridge for 1-3 days. This amount of mixture lasts a long time!

3 oz (90g) salt

1 tsp citric acid

2 tsp sugar

1 tsp red pepper or 1 shredded dried chili pod

1 tsp or so of dried yuzu (find in confectionery section) or any citrus zest.

1 tsp of kelp powder, or kelp-flavored MSG, or shreds of dried kelp.

*When using with hard vegetables such as sliced goya (bitter melon), add a little water to speed up the pickling.

Soy sauce or Noodle sauce pickles

For about 2 cups of shredded vegetables, mix in 2 tab soy sauce, and 1 tab sake or mirin; or 2-3 tab men-tsuyu (noodle sauce) concentrate. Add a very few shreds of dried kelp if desired.

Edited July 2, 2006 by helenjp (log)

helenjp · July 2, 2006

Quick Pickles with Green Ume

This worked out very well. I've never seen a recipe like it, but I surely can't be the first person to use green ume in pickles.

Weigh vegetables and weigh out 2 or 3% of that weight in coarse pickling salt.

I use finely sliced cucumbers and Japanese eggplants, and shreds of young ginger. I think myouga and shiso are too powerful for this, but other pale, mild vegetables would do... the key is to add shreds of green ume (about half a dozen ume, anything from a slightly pale green to faintly flushed with yellow). Mix salt or quick pickle mix into the vegetables and ume, and pickle overnight. The ume seems to keep the vegetable colors particularly bright, and the flavor is very fresh.

helenjp · July 2, 2006

Gosh, I'm on a roll...you can also make quick pickles with some of the "furikake" products, as they are usually quite salty. Add a little more salt, and maybe a splash of vinegar or sake or lemon juice to get things moving, stick it in a bag and into the fridge for a few hours or overnight. One of my favorites is sakura-yukari - salted cherry blossoms and salted red shiso leaves. Great stuff!

JasonWV · September 30, 2006

Hello I'm new to this forum. ; "Waves" Myself being in a place where there is hardly if any places to even the basic asian food, spices, ingredents I was wondering if anyone knew a place on the internet I could get nuka at that takes money orders? I don't have a Credit Card. thanks for your help.

Kuma · September 30, 2006

Hi Jason,

I'm not sure where you are, but I found the Rice Bran at my local Health Food Store.

Also Helen - Good news, there's a new Japanese/Korean supermarket just opened up really close to me so I finally got the proper Konbu to use and have started up my Nuka bed ! *YAY*

JasonWV · September 30, 2006

West Virginia, Usa Not the most dirverse place in the world. =\

prasantrin · September 30, 2006

West Virginia, Usa Not the most dirverse place in the world. =\
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I have found that many online stores will accept money orders if you e-mail/call and explain that you don't have a credit card. They'll usually ship once they've received your money order.

Just do an online search for "rice bran" and I'm sure you'll find something. If nothing else, Bob's Red Mill has online sales. so you could contact them or ask them for the closest retailer near you (which will probably be out-of-state, but depending on where you live it might just be do-able).

torakris · September 30, 2006

West Virginia, Usa Not the most dirverse place in the world. =\
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JasonWV, Welcome to eGullet and the Japan forum!

I spent 6 years in Athens, OH just over the border (ok more like 30 minutes) from Parkersburg, WV. There really isn't a whole lot of anything in the area...

Columbus does have some really great Japanese markets if you feel like making a road trip! :biggrin:

Catherine Iino · October 13, 2006

Can anyone give instructions for pickling shiso seeds? I have quite a crop. I clicked on the link in an early post to photos of the process, but the Japanese captions are translated by my computer into comic-book curse words--"#@&%^!" and the like.

Thanks for any help you can give.

helenjp · January 13, 2007

I think I may have a recipe for shiso seeds - I'll have a look.

By the way, where are the real pickles? :shock: . I started a thorough check, and so far, haven't found a real pickle (that is, one that doesn't include vinegar, but is naturally sour from fermentation products) in any supermarket.

I'm shocked - how could Japan just abandon something that has been part of every meal for dunnamany years?

Anybody care to check around their neighborhood?

Hiroyuki · January 13, 2007

By the way, where are the real pickles? . I started a thorough check, and so far, haven't found a real pickle (that is, one that doesn't include vinegar, but is naturally sour from fermentation products) in any supermarket.
I'm shocked - how could Japan just abandon something that has been part of every meal for dunnamany years?
Anybody care to check around their neighborhood?
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:huh: I just don't know what to answer... Pickle, vinegar, part of every meal? What do you mean?

helenjp · January 13, 2007

Pickles are surely part of every meal in the traditional Japanese style of eating!

Pickles made with salt will ferment slowly, producing lactic acid (which tastes sour), so there is no need to add vinegar.

However, pickles made commercially usually contain vinegar. They are only pickled a very short time, so they don't taste sour unless vinegar is added.

Naturally fermented pickles contain lactic acid, which aids digestion, and vitamin C - but vinegar pickles don't contain these added benefits.

Hiroyuki · January 13, 2007

First of all, not all tsukemono are fermented, as described here:

一方実際には浅漬け、千枚漬け、松前漬け等、その製造に発酵をともなわないものも多くあり、漬物すなわち発酵食品に分類することは誤りである。

Tsukemono such as asa zuke, senmai zuke, and matsumae zuke are not fermented.

Secondly, I'd say that tsukemono have evolved just like sushi evolved from fermented food in the Edo period. Almost all types of sushi that we speak of today are simply vinegard rice plus other ingredients, right?

Speaking of real pickles, don't Kuromon-ya and Akamon-ya in your neighborhood sell real ones?? :smile:

helenjp · January 13, 2007

OK, I hear you, and I should have been clearer. I was thinking of one-step fermented pickles, and not pickles such as miso-zuke or nara-zuke, or even matsumae-zuke, where fresh, salted, or dried items are pickled in previously-fermented products (usually seasonings), and are not expected to develop significant amounts of lactic acid.

Makizushi or nigiri-zushi really have evolved into something that is clearly different enough from funa-zushi or ishikari-zuke in looks, taste, and even the occasions when they are eaten to warrant being called an evolution. The pickles we are seeing in supermarkets these days look just like the originals, and they are intended to taste the same way too - the only differences are poor materials and slapdash techniques! :shock:

I'm not happy when I get a vinegar-pickled hakusai-zuke, and I can't regard it as an evolutionary step forward! Turkish pickles use vinegar added to brine to slow fermentation, and the result is a very tasty pickle, but supermarket tsukemono seem to have had almost no fermentation.

Senmai-zuke, when I lived close enough to Kyoto to visit once or twice a month, were only pickled for a brief period time, but I remember being told even then (that's over 25 years ago) that "real" senmai-zuke were rarely made outside Kyoto, because they were simply soaked in a salt and vinegar solution. I never buy senmai-zuke - the commercial product is just an expensive asazuke!

Asa-zuke is not really pickling, is it ? It doesn't preserve food, just makes it more palatable.

The pickle shops you mentioned - I haven't been there for a couple of months (I shop in the other direction :laugh: ), but they have certainly been selling more and more bought-in pickles in bags, and has a smaller range than he used to - I think the owner of the place nearest the temple is finding age is catching up with him. It would be nice to take a walk over that way and see.

rumball · January 13, 2007

i have just joined recently and found a mention of pink pickled garlic on this thread. i know it's been awhile, but may be somebody knows more about it? it's available in japanese/korean markets in nyc metro area and i also saw it in hawaii, honolulu area and i absolutely love it . it has no garlicky taste actually. i tried experimenting with various recipes, but it never comes out as crunchy and sweet, actually nothing close to taste.... the packaging has a pic of shiso and bonito on it and ingredients include plum vinegar, vinegar (rice?), sugar, corn syrop, salt, shiso, bonito, msg and citric acid. it's labeled 'shinshin shiso katsu ninniku'. i think the pink color is from red plum vinegar and may be red shiso? and is natural.

torakris · January 14, 2007

Though I am far from a pickle expert, I will agree there are a lot of bad mass produced pickles out there. Just 2 weeks ago I picked up a pack of cucumber pickles and then threw them out after my husband and I had a bit, they were awful with a really strange taste.

fenyx66 · January 16, 2007

When I went to Sendai, I went to a Gyutan (cow tongue) restaurant named Rikyu (or Rikkyu, I forgot)... anyway, I ordered a set meal and some pickles came on the side of the gyutan called Miso-nanbanzuke. They were pretty spicy, but the flavour was so good that they are now my number one favourite pickle. I picked up a couple of bags at the omiyage store when I took the shinkansen home, of course they were for me. I really liked them on rice. I went back in December and thought I posted something about this already, but going back and looking, I see now that I didn't. Anyway, I've tried looking in all the stores in my area, and I can't find them, and I'm going to Tokyo this weekend for Sumo and Chanko Nabe, so I'll check around there, but if any of you happen to be in the Sendai area, check out Rikyu for excellent gyutan and miso-nanbanzuke.

If anyone knows how to make this, please let me know. I found Torakris' nanban-zuke thread, but I think that this was different. These were pickles and had no fish or chicken in them. I'm guessing it's just nanban (but green) pickled in miso.

Hiroyuki · January 16, 2007

When I went to Sendai, I went to a Gyutan (cow tongue) restaurant named Rikyu (or Rikkyu, I forgot)... anyway, I ordered a set meal and some pickles came on the side of the gyutan called Miso-nanbanzuke. They were pretty spicy, but the flavour was so good that they are now my number one favourite pickle. I picked up a couple of bags at the omiyage store when I took the shinkansen home, of course they were for me. I really liked them on rice. I went back in December and thought I posted something about this already, but going back and looking, I see now that I didn't. Anyway, I've tried looking in all the stores in my area, and I can't find them, and I'm going to Tokyo this weekend for Sumo and Chanko Nabe, so I'll check around there, but if any of you happen to be in the Sendai area, check out Rikyu for excellent gyutan and miso-nanbanzuke.
If anyone knows how to make this, please let me know. I found Torakris' nanban-zuke thread, but I think that this was different. These were pickles and had no fish or chicken in them. I'm guessing it's just nanban (but green) pickled in miso.
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I got it! You are talking about this. The product name is Nanban Zuke, and it's green chili peppers pickled in miso (miso zuke). Your post is confusing because nanbanzuke means something different: deep-fried food soaked in a vinegar-based sauce.

fenyx66 · January 16, 2007

Yeah, that's it! Those are really delicious. I was confused by the name too, but the waiter said misonanbanzuke, but that clearly says nanban miso, 南蛮味噌. Thanks for that link, I think I'll order some if I can't find them. Do you know how long they'd last after being opened?

Hiroyuki · January 16, 2007

Yeah, that's it! Those are really delicious. I was confused by the name too, but the waiter said misonanbanzuke, but that clearly says nanban miso, 南蛮味噌. Thanks for that link, I think I'll order some if I can't find them. Do you know how long they'd last after being opened?
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I'm not sure, probably a couple of months or longer.

When I googled "唐辛子の味噌漬け" (pepper miso zuke), I got some Korean versions like this, so why not visit a Korean food store nearby?

I also got some recipes like this and this (sorry, both in Japanese only).

Hiroyuki · January 16, 2007

i have just joined recently and found a mention of pink pickled garlic on this thread. i know it's been awhile, but may be somebody knows more about it? it's available in japanese/korean markets in nyc metro area and i also saw it in hawaii, honolulu area and i absolutely love it . it has no garlicky taste actually. i tried experimenting with various recipes, but it never comes out as crunchy and sweet, actually nothing close to taste.... the packaging has a pic of shiso and bonito on it and ingredients include plum vinegar, vinegar (rice?), sugar, corn syrop, salt, shiso, bonito, msg and citric acid. it's labeled 'shinshin shiso katsu ninniku'. i think the pink color is from red plum vinegar and may be red shiso? and is natural.
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There is surprisingly little information about the product you mentioned. This is virtually the only website that shows it. It's available in three flavors, miso, tamari, and shiso katsuo. I look for it the next time I go shopping.

helenjp · January 18, 2007

That pink pickled garlic is variously called Shiso Ninniku, Ume Ninniku, etc. To get the crunch, I would recommend pickling it the same way you make rakkyou (sweet pickled shallots), and also using young garlic, which comes out around June. I'll try and experiment around then...

Nanban miso: I did find several brief descriptions of how to make this, so I made some. I used kouji miso (cultured rice - a rather sloppy, mild, pale-colored miso), but I think it is also made with moromi - a whole grain miso which is usually sold quite heavily sweetened - don't add much sweetener if you use that.

Apparently other vegetables such as gobo (burdock) and carrot or other wild vegetables are added to the chilis and fried together.

Long green chilis - up to 50g - a scant 2 oz.

1/2 cup miso, mixed with:

1/4 cup each of sake or mirin (but sake and honey or sugar would also work).

Goma abura (toasted sesame oil) up to 1 tablespoon

Heat oil (not too hot) and fry chopped chilis until bright green and starting to soften.

Add miso mixture and simmer on low-med heat till as thick as oatmeal (roughly...). You really do need to stir it as both miso and mirin burn easily.

Cool, drizzle a little extra goma abura over if you wish, and pack.

A dab of this was excellent (instead of shoyu) with daikon oroshi for eating with grilled salted dried sardines.

rumball · January 18, 2007

To get the crunch, I would recommend pickling it the same way you make rakkyou (sweet pickled shallots), and also using young garlic, which comes out around June.

all i have to do now, find a recipe for rakkyou;) sweet vinegar version - which will take another couple of years?! i noticed that torakris said that they make their own rakkyou pickles. may i ask how?

i googled - but got nothing in english and a lot of japanese, which unfortunately i don't understand. sigh.