Soy sauce

[Jinmyo]

Soba, I like mushroom soy (I get Y&Y, a Canadian importer). Especially for marinades.

[Jason Perlow]

I like Lee Kum Kee's chili soy sauce. Adds extra zing to noodles and fried rice, and dumpling sauces.

[Marlene]

I prefer mushroom soy, which I usually get at an Asian supermarket in Jackson Heights.  Slightly less saltier than light soy (to my taste, anyway), and imparts traces of mushroom flavor.

Soba

I assume this is made with mushrooms? Let's me out

[SobaAddict70]

its soy sauce with straw mushroom essence added to it.

salty, but with hints of earth and fungus...

Soba

[Marlene]

its soy sauce with straw mushroom essence added to it. 

salty, but with hints of earth and fungus...

Soba

still lets me out if it has mushroom essence or anything closely related to fungus. Oh well. I was at the grocery store today and looked at soy sauces on the shelves. Only, V-H and Kikkoman. I'll try the specialty store near me to see if they have anything better. Less salt!

[snowangel]

I've not been to any of the Japanese markets in Minneapolis, but the average American grocery here has Kikoman and Kame (which I think is awful.

The SE Asian markets tend to have Golden Boy, Kikoman and Pearl River Bridge. I usually opt for one of the latter two. The Golden Boy is very light tasting.

[eatingwitheddie]

I do think the imported Kikkoman tastes slightly better (more concentrated is how I'd describe it) than the Kikkoman made in the USA. But I'm also not saying Kikkoman is bad. It's a good product. It just doesn't have the kind of subtlety or nuance that a real premium product would have. But it's definitely better on the soy sauce spectrum than something like Bertolli is on the olive oil spectrum. Hey, Gary Danko uses it.

Kikkoman produces at least 8 or 9 different soy sauces including a delicious new one that I received from them that was developed expecially for sushi.

[eatingwitheddie]

MIXING TWO KINDS OF SOY FOR THE SAME DISH

I usually cook with Kikkoman and with Amoy Golden Label Dark. I will use one or the other depending upon whether I'd like a dark or light color, a more or less salty taste, and what nuances of flavor I'm trying to achieve. Some of the dark soys have a rounded molasses-like quality that I find desirable. If I really want a great deal of this molasses flavor I'll use a bit of thick soy, which is highly reduced and viscous.

Many years ago a masterchef/teacher who influenced me greatly showed me how to mix the two kinds of soy to achieve a variety flavors and depth of color. For example when I'm making a standard brown stir-fry sauce for Beef and Vegetables I might use 3 parts light soy to one part dark. For a spicy Hunan chicken dish where I want a deep brown color I might use more like 2:1, light to dark.

[torakris]

I haven't found a great variety of soy sauce here in Ontario.  V-H, Kikkoman.  The problem is, even the "light" brands of those are pretty salty.  I'd like to find one here that is low in salt.

If you are buying import soys becareful of those that say light on the label, look specifically for low salt.

The Japanese usukuchi soy sauces are usually referred to as "light" meaning that they are lighter in color, and actually have more salt then the regular soy.

[trillium]

This reminds me of a funny story... when we were in Chicago our upstairs neighbor came down and asked to borrow some soy sauce. The partner asked him what kind he wanted and our neighbor replied, you know, just soy sauce. The partner is a soya snob, he thinks you should have seperate soyas for seperate cuisines. We had in our cupboard at the time: Chinese light (Amoy Gold Label light is the only one I'll buy...it's great), Chinese dark (Pearl River or Amoy Gold label, it varies), Japanese light (can't remember...something in the $14 range from Yaohan), kecap manis (Indonesian thick soya), Thai mushroom (Golden Boy brand), and Thai light and dark (Dragonfly brand). Poor neighbor...

regards,

trillium

[Hickory]

I haven't found a great variety of soy sauce here in Ontario.  V-H, Kikkoman.  The problem is, even the "light" brands of those are pretty salty.  I'd like to find one here that is low in salt.

Marlene, I'm not sure where in Ontario you are but if you are near Toronto I found a variety by Kimlan that we enjoy. We found it at an asian market at the SW corner of Warden and Shepard. The distributor told me that most of the asian markets in the Scarborough area should carry it.

Kimlan makes quite a few different ones but the one we like best has a yellow label with red "Kimlan" and the barcode number is 79985 11020.

I think it's fairly light compared to others I have tried. If you want to try a sample first check out your local Loblaws. If they have one of those stands where they make sushi in the store, this is the same as the kind they usually have in the little foil package, they will probably toss you a couple if you ask. If you can't find it at your local, the one at Burnamthorpe and 427 has it.

Brian

[pjs]

I haven't found a great variety of soy sauce here in Ontario.  V-H, Kikkoman.  The problem is, even the "light" brands of those are pretty salty.  I'd like to find one here that is low in salt.

If you are buying import soys becareful of those that say light on the label, look specifically for low salt.

The Japanese usukuchi soy sauces are usually referred to as "light" meaning that they are lighter in color, and actually have more salt then the regular soy.

torakris, you're right about the salt content difference between imported usukuchi and imported regular shoyu. At least when comparing the Kikkoman varieties. According to the nutrition labels regular is 41% percentage daily value per serving and the usukuchi is 47%. I also noticed the usukuchi has corn syrup and rice alcohol added.

PJ

[Fat Guy]

Kikkoman produces at least 8 or 9 different soy sauces including a delicious new one that I received from them that was developed expecially for sushi.

As far as I know Kikkoman U.S. produces two varieties: regular and lite. In terms of imported Kikkoman, I've seen three variants: regular, "milder" (which is the low-sodium version), and "light color." I haven't seen the sushi one but would like to try it. I know in Europe they sell one that's very sweet. Are there others I haven't seen?

The U.S. Web site lists only the two I've seen:

http://207.26.149.23/_pages/consumer/produ...ction2=soysauce

The Asian site is a little more difficult to navigate, but seems to list three:

http://www.kikkoman.com/contents/products.html

[pjs]

My grocer has the Sweet Kikkoman on the shelf. If I knew what to do with it I'd buy a liter.

PJ

[Fat Guy]

I bought some soy sauce at Wegmans in New Jersey tonight: Hatsu Shibori. I tasted some on a fingertip and it seemed pretty complex, though mild. Wegmans offered around 15 soy sauce choices, which is pretty amazing for a Western supermarket. Several of those were just packaging variations, but still it was impressive. Not that it can touch the selection at a place like Foodmart International.

It occurs to me I have at least five soy sauces in my house, not including the ones in plastic packets left over from takeout. I should probably acquire a few more and conduct a tasting. I wonder if there are any protocols. Does tasting soy sauce raw indicate how it will work in a cooked dish? Has Cook's Illustrated ever done this test? Did La Choy win? ("Our tasting panel picked a supermarket brand over several expensive imports . . .")

Does soy sauce deteriorate if it's stored for too long? A year? Five years? Is refrigeration recommended?

Why is the default American Chinese-restaurant soy sauce -- Kikkoman -- a Japanese product?

[eatingwitheddie]

Why is the default American Chinese-restaurant soy sauce -- Kikkoman -- a Japanese product?

Chinese chefs like it, they think it tastes good.

And yes Kikkoman does make 8 or 9 different kinds. How do I know? I recently went to a seminar which they sponsored and saw and sampled them all. Honest injun! May not be on their website but they do exist!

[jawbone]

Cook's did do a tasting a year or two ago. My magazines are at home so I don't have details but I believe the winning soy sauce was Eden Traditionally Brewed Tamari. They tasted the sauces both raw and cooked and found that sauces that tasted good in one state didn't necessarily taste good in the other. They found that sauces that had been aged the longest were generally best. And their winning selection wasn't the cheapest but isn't exactly expensive either. That's all I can remember.

Edited March 26, 2003 by jawbone (log)

[Fat Guy]

And yes Kikkoman does make 8 or 9 different kinds. How do I know? I recently went to a seminar which they sponsored and saw and sampled them all. Honest injun! May not be on their website but they do exist!

I'm sure they do. I found six online and you mentioned the sushi-specific dipping-soy-sauce. What I'm trying to figure out is 1) whether there's much difference other than salt levels; and 2) what the missing soy sauces are. I mean, is there some sort of uber-Kikkoman product that isn't on the Web site, that the company tries to keep secret, but that is actually the world's best soy sauce? Or are variants 8 and 9 just representatives of the two levels of saltiness that fill the gap between regular and lite?

[eatingwitheddie]

And yes Kikkoman does make 8 or 9 different kinds. How do I know? I recently went to a seminar which they sponsored and saw and sampled them all. Honest injun! May not be on their website but they do exist!

I'm sure they do. I found six online and you mentioned the sushi-specific dipping-soy-sauce. What I'm trying to figure out is 1) whether there's much difference other than salt levels; and 2) what the missing soy sauces are. I mean, is there some sort of uber-Kikkoman product that isn't on the Web site, that the company tries to keep secret, but that is actually the world's best soy sauce? Or are variants 8 and 9 just representatives of the two levels of saltiness that fill the gap between regular and lite?

My recollection is that they were all different, some in salt levels, but significantly in nuances of flavor. The ingredient list on each varied greatly. Some had many ingredients and a couple only a few. Clearly 'whole bean soy' is a buzz phrase that they and other manufacturers use for indentifying a premium product. Though I seem to remember the different premium soys varied substantially from one another when reading the fine print.

I have a bottle of the Kikkoman 'sushi & sashimi' soy. I have not seen it for sale anywhere. On the label it says "To enjoy sushi and sashimi Kikkoman has produced a special soy sauce. It is milder, better balance between sweetness and saltiness, and compliments the flavors in sushi."

Ingredients: water, wheat, soy beans, salt, sugar, water, modified food starch, sodium benzoate, fermented wheat protein, maltodextrin salt, disodium inosinate, disodium guanylate, lactic acid. Tastes gentler and delicious.

By contrast my made in the USA (Wisconsin) gallon of regular Kikkoman only lists water, wheat, soybeans, salt, and sodium benzoate as ingredients. By the way they suggest (on the can) refrigeration after opening (I don't do this), and use within a few months.

Better living through chemistry!

[Marlene]

I haven't found a great variety of soy sauce here in Ontario.  V-H, Kikkoman.  The problem is, even the "light" brands of those are pretty salty.  I'd like to find one here that is low in salt.

Marlene, I'm not sure where in Ontario you are but if you are near Toronto I found a variety by Kimlan that we enjoy. We found it at an asian market at the SW corner of Warden and Shepard. The distributor told me that most of the asian markets in the Scarborough area should carry it.

Kimlan makes quite a few different ones but the one we like best has a yellow label with red "Kimlan" and the barcode number is 79985 11020.

I think it's fairly light compared to others I have tried. If you want to try a sample first check out your local Loblaws. If they have one of those stands where they make sushi in the store, this is the same as the kind they usually have in the little foil package, they will probably toss you a couple if you ask. If you can't find it at your local, the one at Burnamthorpe and 427 has it.

Brian

Thanks Hickory. I'm on the other side of town, actually nearer Oakville, but my brother lives at Warden and Sheppard and my mom at Finch and Pharmacy, so I can one of them to check. I'll check the local Loblaws here and also Bruno's the specialty store.

Torakis, thanks for the tip on buying low sodium on the imported brands!

[Fat Guy]

What would be involved in making soy sauce at home?

[Fat Guy]

Hey this is interesting; from Kikkoman's Middle East product offerings:

"A special type of alcohol-free soy sauce made using Kikkoman's special technology, is available for the Gulf region countries."

http://www.kikkoman.com/contents/products.html

[Fat Guy]

"Kikkoman researchers were the first to successfully mass produce luciferase - the enzyme that gives fireflies their glow"

http://www.kikkoman.com/contents/products.html

[Jaymes]

Had a Korean friend that refused to buy soy sauce. She always made her own from soybean paste and red chile paste.

As for me, I very much prefer to buy soy sauce made in whatever country the dish that I am preparing is native to: Thai for Thai dishes, Chinese for Chinese dishes - I do buy Kikkoman for Japanese.

But, I make a LOT of bulgogi.

And I buy Korean soy sauce to make it.

Edit: Thinking back (some 20 years), I think she made soy sauce AND soybean paste and red chile paste (rather than "FROM" soybean paste).

I just recall that at her house, during "precooking season" as she called it, there would be big jars of many kinds of kimchee and soy sauce fermenting. And also, soybean paste and red chile paste.

Edited March 26, 2003 by Jaymes (log)

[Hickory]

What would be involved in making soy sauce at home?

I lifted the following off the net a while ago.

I'm not sure where you would go to find "the right sort of yeast "

________________________________________

Here is a description of making soy sace in the Japanese village of Shinohata, circa 1975. The author notes that only four or five families

still made their own and that the rest of them relied on the commercial sauces.

"You started with equal volumes of soya [soy] beans boiled enough to be soft, and wheat roughly ground into a very course flour--in the

average houshold about 15 kilogrammes of each. This you entrusted to a specialist in the next hamlet who kept it in a sealed room at the right

temperature, injected the right sort of yeast and so 'put flowers on it .'

Then, having got it back home, you added equal quantities of salt and water, and miscellaneous other things according to taste--left over rice, some monosodium glutimate, etc.--stirred vigorously and left it in a shed for a year to let nature take its course, aided by a vigorous stir from any passer-by who happened to think of it; the more frequent and energetic the stirring, the more impressively the mixture would rumble and erupt.

When it was thought to be finally ripe you ladled the concoction into especially strong muslin bags and rigged up a screw-jack (locally known as a 'giraffe' above it to squeeze all the liquid out.

Finally, to make it go further, you boiled that up with extra water.

(Ronald P. Dore, _Shinohata: A Potrait of a Japanese Village_, New York:

Pantheon, 1978, pp.80-81.)

____________________________________________________________________________________