Turkey post-mortem: science vs. bird

[paulraphael]

I just cooked what's probably my dozenth turkey, using variations on the same method, and my 4th since getting a fancy multiprobe thermocouple thermometer. As I gloated in that former EG post, the thermocouple-headed hydra promised to vanquish any remaining shreds of stress or guesswork.

 

Sadly, it doesn't. It works almost perfectly with more geometrically simple dinners (rib roasts, etc.). But there's something about a bird that defies reliable measurement, at least for me and my various thermometers.

 

This year, I put more care than usual into probe placement.  One of them went into what I thought was the thickest part of the thigh, inserted horizontally from the front. The other went into what I thought was the thickest part of the breast, also horizontally from the front. The third was an ambient probe for oven temperature. 

 

I think that ambient probe did its job, which was to tell me that the oven in my new house doesn't actually reach 500°F. Even when you crank it to 525. My IR thermometer concurred. This was an embarrassing thing to notice after roasting in it for 2 years. 

 

The worse part was that despite all my tricks, the breast probe was galloping off into the 160°F range (target was 143) while the thigh languished in the low 140s (target was 147). I messed with my foil barding and with rotating the bird and with switching between bake and broil to get the top to brown adequately, and finally just resigned myself to an overcooked bird. Which for me justifies creating an awkward moment for guests as I commit seppuku at the dining table with a carving knife. 

 

But alas—good news for me, bad news for the thermometer—the bird was close to perfect. I'm happy with the result, but not the process. It would have been easier and lower stress to just eyeball it. 

 

I have not tested the probes yet in boiling water. My strong guess is that they'll be fine. Within a degree or so. Which means that the problem, as it usually is, is with how to put them in the right place.

 

Does anyone have the holy grail of poultry probing wisdom? Or should I surrender, and just eyeball it the old fashioned way?

 

[AlaMoi]

I have one with a probe that stays in the bird and a cable to the readout/alarm box.

I graph the temps - which allows much better control of when the bird will finish.

as it gets close, I use an insta-read thermometer - checking in various places white/dark/thick/thin/stuffing to fine tune "it's done"

Thanksgiving DinnerPlan.pdf

[paulraphael]

The question is all about probe placement. It's so easy to get bad readings (probe end too close to the surface, in an air pocket, touching a bone, etc.)

 

What's your method for poking the bird?

[AlaMoi]

the 'in oven probe' I put in the classic 'thickest part of the breast at the leg area'

as it nears done, I check with the insta-read.

my method is simply to check multiple places - if I see wildly 'off' temp one can be pretty sure one poked in a 'goofy' spot.

2-3 spots midway down the breast - neck to tail.

the leg is the trickiest - because the tendons/etc limit one's choice of 'spots I wanna' check'

if the bird has been trussed, checking the thigh is pretty easy.

I go straight into the stuffed cavity, the length of the probe . . .

 

if you present the bird, then take it to the kitchen for carving . . . my trick is to wrench off both legs and put them back in a hot oven on a rack for best circulation - bringing the dark meat up to a full 160'F temp while carving . . .

[rotuts]

@paulraphael

 

Im sure you knew this before this experiment  , and now have it confirmed :

 

'''   the breast probe was galloping off into the 160°F   '''

 

'''   the thigh languished in the low 140s ''

 

yet , ''  the bird was close to perfect ''

 

and you've thought about probe placement 

 

'''   Which means that the problem, as it usually is, is with how to put them in the right place '''

 

you are asking the probes to confirm digitally that the bird is doing well , and will end up ' close to perfect '

 

but the bird was perfect , and

 

'''  eyeball it the old fashioned way? '''

 

w a digital guide is the way Id go .  

 

did you Thermapen the bird , in white//dark places just before carving ?

 

that would have been interesting information .

 

I  think digital information is an interesting guide 

 

the WHPS   ( Yoder-ing )  is done by a friend , of a different age 

 

and he sends me digital curves of the various Cooks.   I have no idea what to make of them 

 

but Im sure Id not rely on them heavily , unless the outcome

 

on the plate 

 

was pretty bad.

 

 

[paulraphael]

On 12/2/2024 at 1:32 PM, rotuts said:

@paulraphael

 

did you Thermapen the bird , in white//dark places just before carving ?

 

that would have been interesting information .

I didn't. Trouble is you can't really know where in the temp/time curve you are. As the bird rests, interior temps rise a few degrees, and then drop. Without a graphing thermometer you won't know what the peak was, which determines how "well done" it is.

 

Older experiments tell me I'm aiming for about 150F in the thigh and 145F in the breast. A few degrees higher is not a problem (and the breast always goes at least a little higher). 

[weinoo]

It’s why we go away for Thanksgiving.

[AlaMoi]

On 12/4/2024 at 1:19 PM, paulraphael said:

I didn't. Trouble is you can't really know where in the temp/time curve you are. As the bird rests, interior temps rise a few degrees, and then drop. Without a graphing thermometer you won't know what the peak was, which determines how "well done" it is.

 

 

there is a plethora of wireless thermometers and associated "apps" on the market.

recently saw one that offered four probes, and smart phone 'tracking' of all four simultaneously....

sounds like a potential solution to the problem?

 

just be sure to read the reviews. 

issues of connectivity reliability, range, "obstructions" are all factors in how happy users are with their gadgets . . .

 

I "graph" the temps 'the old fashion way' - i.e. I read the (exterior) probe display, plunk it into an Excel chart . . .

a smart phone app that would seamlessly do all that , , , could be a valuable doohickey....

 

[weinoo]

My grandmother (she should rest in peace) had a really great method for Thanksgiving turkey.  She cooked in until it was inedible, and also served brisket, which was almost edible.

 

Maybe, as has been implied elsewhere on the nets, turkey deserves to be cooked in parts.

[paulraphael]

2 hours ago, weinoo said:

It’s why we go away for Thanksgiving.

A few years ago, my parents were on their way to a friend's for thanksgiving. They got on the elevator in their building with a neighbor who was holding a huge covered platter, and looked consumed with rage. When they all got off the elevator, the neighbor muttered, "this is the last time I ask if I can bring anything."

[MaryIsobel]

22 minutes ago, weinoo said:

My grandmother (she should rest in peace) had a really great method for Thanksgiving turkey.  She cooked in until it was inedible, and also served brisket, which was almost edible.

 

Maybe, as has been implied elsewhere on the nets, turkey deserves to be cooked in parts.

My mom (may she also rest in peace) always cooked the turkey to death until the oven died one Christmas. We pulled a chair up to the oven and took turns turning the broiler on and off until the turkey was done. Best turkey we ever had. 

[Tropicalsenior]

For several years my husband and I spent Thanksgiving at friends of ours. They were both Boeing engineers. She was Cuban exile, probably one of the most intelligent women I ever met but she wasn't much of a cook. I can only describe the turkey as turkey jerky. The rest of the meal was Cuban style sides and not exactly what you would expect for Thanksgiving.

The rest of the guests were mostly Cuban expats. They were wonderful company and we always had a great time so nobody even paid much attention to the food.

[Senior Sea Kayaker]

The best part of, as a child in my family growing up in the 60's, the Christmas turkey dinner wasn't the dinner but everything we got in the time after.

Turkey pot pie. Turkey stew with doughboys (steamed herb dumplings). Turkey and vegetable noodle soup. Turkey sandwiches rather than peanut butter and jam.

 

[gfweb]

5 hours ago, weinoo said:

My grandmother (she should rest in peace) had a really great method for Thanksgiving turkey.  She cooked in until it was inedible, and also served brisket, which was almost edible.

 

Maybe, as has been implied elsewhere on the nets, turkey deserves to be cooked in parts.

 

Exactly how I do it.

SV for breast and low oven for dark meat

[weinoo]

17 hours ago, weinoo said:

Maybe, as has been implied elsewhere on the nets, turkey deserves to be cooked in parts.

 

12 hours ago, gfweb said:

Exactly how I do it.

SV for breast and low oven for dark meat

 

Seriously the best way, and it's not like anyone in their right mind would want to carve a turkey anywhere but in the kitchen.

[Tropicalsenior]

43 minutes ago, weinoo said:

it's not like anyone in their right mind would want to carve a turkey anywhere but in the kitchen.

So true, and why do people who know nothing about it insist on carving the turkey? My husband always insisted on carving the turkey. The man of the house must carve the turkey. Only he didn't carve it he butchered it.

[MaryIsobel]

7 hours ago, Tropicalsenior said:

So true, and why do people who know nothing about it insist on carving the turkey? My husband always insisted on carving the turkey. The man of the house must carve the turkey. Only he didn't carve it he butchered it.

Same here. One year my daughter said "Dad, can I carve the turkey this year?  I really want to learn how to do it." She did and it was grand so she is now the officia turkey carver and she does a wonderful job as she is much more concerened about presentaion than my husband ever was!