Induction-Friendly Cookware Selection

[Deephaven]

Would love input on my shopping list.  Remodeling the house and my beloved Bluestar and Copper Mauviels aren’t part of the plan.

 

Basically starting from scratch pan wise outside of some oblique pieces I am not replacing.  For the ones I am replacing my current shopping list is below.  Would love input on if there is something else that would be of benefit to replace/upgrade these with.  I've searched the forum and while there are topics on pans, none of them seem to be focused on induction and choosing overall the pieces that will be used.  I am definitely willing to budget more if there is a gain, but would like a well rounded list.  It pans me to replace my copper, but the time has come.

 

Some great info on copper pans here: Some great info on copper cookware here: 

 

 

Which led me to the Falk which you will see below.

As for pan technologies this is also a great read

 

 

Either way, for this thread we are a family of 4, rather large eaters and we make pretty much food from every part of the world.  Induction is new to us and I'd like to make the right decision the first time through.  Here are what we are contemplating first in pictures and then my Excel summary.

 

Frying pans:

General purpose Falk Copper in 28 & 32cm

 

High heat searing Demeyere Proline 32cm

 

High heat not worry about it pan Madein Carbon

 

Sauce/Saucier:

Generally looking at only Saucier as I don’t know what I’d need a sauce pan in addition?

 

Falk 18, 24, 28

 

Butter warmer

Made in .75 Quart

 

Griddle & Wok

Madein

I’ve tested this griddle, but have no idea on the wok.  The griddle worked great on the Wolf induction range I am getting so I figure it is logical

 

Stock pot/Dutch Oven

Cuisinart 12qt and LeCreuset 7.5qt

 

General questions:

·       I hadn’t planned lids that match as I tend to prefer silicon lids that are more universal.  Butter warmer is the exception, am I nuts?

·       Is the 11.5“/29cm diameter stock pot logical or something narrower and taller?

·       7.25qt/liter LeCreuset the right size for a family of 4?  Staub or another choice more logical?

·       I have both a 28cm Saute and Saucier...are these redundant?  Should I instead get a smaller Saucier?

·       Being the Saute is a bottom only cooking vessel should I go with the Demeyere instead? ... or possibly a Fissler?

 

And my shopping/pricing list.  I am going to Europe here in November and being the prices of Falk/Demeyere are much better there plan to purchase then.  As a pre-shopping I had planned to order the try me Falk pan now.

 

Feel free to point out anything negative, positive or nuts.  I have some time, but would like to prepare for my trip.  

 

[liuzhou]

The wok seems small to me for a family of four. I live alone and one of my woks is 32cm which is just big enought for me.

[blue_dolphin]

5 minutes ago, liuzhou said:

The wok seems small to me for a family of four. I live alone and one of my woks is 32cm which is just big enought for me.

 

I also have a 32 cm wok and agree that most people would recommend a larger one for a family of 4.  However, with an induction cooktop, you don't get as much heat transfer up the sides of the wok as you can get with a gas burner so some people suggest cooking meals in multiple batches instead of letting everything get steamed.  In that case, a smaller wok could work.  Though if I used a wok a lot for a family, I'd get the bigger wok and a separate wok burner. 

[Deephaven]

I wasn't sure wok wise what could work on the induction.  If I get my way I will have something like this outside for real wok cooking

...but there will be time I need to do things in batches inside.  Will shop for a bigger one for in the house as even if it is bigger I don't have to cook any more.  Tossing in 12 would be interesting, completely missed that.

 

Are there pans you would choose over those Falk's for any application?

 

[liuzhou]

11 minutes ago, blue_dolphin said:

 

I also have a 32 cm wok and agree that most people would recommend a larger one for a family of 4.  However, with an induction cooktop, you don't get as much heat transfer up the sides of the wok as you can get with a gas burner so some people suggest cooking meals in multiple batches instead of letting everything get steamed.  In that case, a smaller wok could work.  Though if I used a wok a lot for a family, I'd get the bigger wok and a separate wok burner. 

 

Well yes, but I wouldn't / couldn't get a wok burner. No one in China uses them domestically. We do use stand-alone induction units like this for hot pots etc, but it deals with stir fries just fine when ocassionally needed. Otherwise, domestic gas cookers are used. More on this here.

[blue_dolphin]

12 minutes ago, liuzhou said:

Well yes, but I wouldn't / couldn't get a wok burner. No one in China uses them domestically. We do use stand-alone induction units like this for hot pots etc, but it deals with stir fries just fine when ocassionally needed. Otherwise, domestic gas cookers are used. More on this here.

 

Yes, I shouldn't have written "wok burner" when what I had in mind was something simpler like this Iwatani butane burner (eG-friendly Amazon.com link)

Not that there's anything wrong with a wok burner if that's what someone's set on. They do look pretty dramatic.  It's just too scary and would be overkill for me. 

[liuzhou]

2 minutes ago, blue_dolphin said:

what I had in mind was something simpler like this Iwatani butane burner (eG-friendly Amazon.com link)

 

Yes, these are also available here, but have largely been superseded by the induction type of model above. Cleaner and safer when used on the family dinner table.

 

[Deephaven]

The wok burner I linked is cheaper than any side burner for a grill $550. Figured it was two fold use.  I also make maple syrup and process my own animals making bulk stock so a large outdoor burner is logical.  Any other simple side can be done in a wok instead of a pan.  I had read liuzhou's link before and probably should have clarified why I wanted a wok burner outside.

Glad you all caught that it was only a 12" from Madein though as I just don't contemplate woks in diameter very well.  I have a 38cm one from a chinese grocery store I use in the blue star all the time and would hate tossing things in the little 30 for our family.

[AAQuesada]

I don't do induction but I am a big fan of the pieces I have from MadeIn (including the butter warmer)

[Laurentius]

I'm interested in what deephaven ended up with.

 

If I'd gone that deep into copper, I'dve kept that and scared up a Panasonic Met-All dual frequency 240V induction unit. 

[Laurentius]

On 9/22/2023 at 11:43 AM, Deephaven said:

Are there pans you would choose over those Falk's for any application?

 

Just in case you're still shopping...

 

Falk asked me to evaluate Coer when it first came out.  I was comped the skillet you pictured above.  It's been in service for a couple years now.  This triply is marginally thinner than the "regular" bimetal, by virtue of Falk having to make room within its existing tooling to accommodate three layers instead of two--the copper got thinned.  So, consequently, Coer is not quite as even and substantially less downwardly responsive that the bimetal lines.  It's also practically as heavy.  What I did not appreciate until after I reviewed Coer is that the exteriors, which allow the line to "work" on induction, are somewhat prone to pitting and discoloration.  It's not a terrible problem, but a neat freak who wants to hang the pans might be disappointed.  I would certainly NOT run them through a DW.   It's still very good cookware, but I think you'll find Coer on induction to be noticeably less even than your bimetal on gas.

 

I'd also encourage you to pick the Demeyere plancha/teppanyaki over any other.

Edited October 1, 2023 by Laurentius (log)

[Deephaven]

Still shopping.  As for the copper, I've had it all for more than 20 years.  It owes me nothing.  I've loved it, but also am ridiculously sick of the heat and oil splatter due to the gas.  I tested out a wolf induction and it did something's even better than my bluestar.

 

I ordered up the try me size falk.  It landed yesterday.  Boiled water on my El cheapo induction burner and boiled water in the equivalent copper pan on the stove.  Upon removing the pan from the heat the falk unboiled 3* faster than the bimetal.  To be fair this was a test of the blue star and copper vs induction and falk.  I am sure that the flames kissed up the sides of the copper heat soaking it more than the falk, but it was a test not a conclusive one.  Open to others. 

 

My shopping will be completed in Nov when I am next in Europe.  Trying to make sure I know what I want before I go so I can preorder it to a friends house.

 

Will look at the demeyere teppanyaki right now...m

[Deephaven]

Demeyere plancha was sadly discontinued in 2018.  There is some odd European website selling them but otherwise none available. ☹️

[JoNorvelleWalker]

12 minutes ago, Deephaven said:

Demeyere plancha was sadly discontinued in 2018.  There is some odd European website selling them but otherwise none available. ☹️

 

I believe the Demeyere searing pan, which I have, is still available.  I recommend it.

 

[Deephaven]

9 hours ago, JoNorvelleWalker said:

 

I believe the Demeyere searing pan, which I have, is still available.  I recommend it.

 

Was planning on one of those as well on my next trip.  Have to balance the weight/import duties and hassle of bringing it all home at once.  The remodel won't be done until January and I'll be back in Europe by March so it won't be that long of a wait.

[Deephaven]

This morning I ran them both with 650g of water on the gas range.  Came to boil within a second of each other and pulling the rolling boil off the heat they both stopped bubbling in 3.75-4.25 seconds and the margin of error from my lovely stop watching tells me they are fundamentally the same.

To be fair again one is a sauce pan and the other the saucier, but I grabbed two with equivalent volume capabilities as well as equivalent masses (within 50g of each other).  I also do not care about boiling water speed as that wasn't my purpose in playing, but I wanted to see how well the pan reacted to a temperature change.  Considering it is really hard to accurately measure temperature up taking the pan completely off the burner and watching the boiling subside was what I chose to do.  So far I like what I see.

[Laurentius]

11 hours ago, Deephaven said:

Demeyere plancha was sadly discontinued in 2018. 

 

 

I believe Berondi has both sizes.  https://berondi.com/demeyere-cookware/demeyere-pans/demeyere-teppanyaki-plancha.html

 

The Coer pitting issue doesn't bother you?

 

Comparing downward responsiveness is somewhat fraught.  If you plot the 10C temperature drops in, say 1L liquid volume, the bimetal should win by a noticeable margin.  If it's s stockpot in an icebath, even more.  

[Deephaven]

Understood.  My IR thermometer doesn't read right on bare stainless so I need something in the pan.  Didn't have time dinking around this morning.  

[Laurentius]

5 hours ago, Deephaven said:

My IR thermometer doesn't read right on bare stainless

 

Even if you had a $$ IR gun with adjustable emissivity, if you want good data, contact and immersion probes are mobettahs.

Edited October 4, 2023 by Laurentius (log)

[Wampa]

I'm transitioning to induction as well, and have to replace several pots and pans. Probably my biggest immediate need will be a frying pan. I've been debating between All Clad (D3) and MadeIn, but am curious about the Demeyere as well. Any thoughts on what you would do if you could only get a single frying pan (to start with!)?

[Laurentius]

2 hours ago, Wampa said:

I've been debating between All Clad (D3) and MadeIn, but am curious about the Demeyere as well

 

If evenness is important to you (and it should be with induction), IMO you will not be happy with either A-C or Made In.  You should focus on thicker aluminum bases, like those under Demeyere Proline, Fissler Original Profi, Paderno Grand Gourmet, Cristel Castelane, or Ballarini.  Or thicker (than A-C Copper Core) copper cores, as in Falk Coer or DeBuyer Prima Matera.

 

If you are strong, Coer and Proline would be my picks for a single fry pan.  They are expensive, but worth it.

Edited February 23 by Laurentius (log)

[Wampa]

On 2/22/2024 at 10:54 PM, Laurentius said:

 

If evenness is important to you (and it should be with induction), IMO you will not be happy with either A-C or Made In.  You should focus on thicker aluminum bases, like those under Demeyere Proline, Fissler Original Profi, Paderno Grand Gourmet, Cristel Castelane, or Ballarini.  Or thicker (than A-C Copper Core) copper cores, as in Falk Coer or DeBuyer Prima Matera.

 

If you are strong, Coer and Proline would be my picks for a single fry pan.  They are expensive, but worth it.

 

@Laurentius I ended up getting a Proline. Worth every penny so far! Thanks!

[horseflesh]

I have found even a small concavity to be really bad for my CF's accuracy. I had to return a pan for that reason. 

 

Emissivity setting is pretty vital unless you are measuring a perfect surface like blackened cast iron, so if you don't trust your thermometers... 

 

I find the CF temperature control to be very good but it isn't magic. It's still induction so uniformity is not perfect either. Nor is the sensor. In one thin pot I have, water boils at 212F on the dot. In a different thicker pan, the same kind of boil requires a set point of 218F.

 

I am all about numbers too but I would put away the thermometers for now and try cooking some things and see how it goes... See if you get the results you expect, see how the temperatures look when the pan is more fully loaded. 

[adrianvm]

If I need to return the concave Hestan pan that I bought specifically to have an induction compatible nonstick pan that would work on the Freak, I should do that sooner rather than later and presumably replace it with something better suited.  If I "just cook" on my nonstick pan and I'm heating it up to 500 deg when I think it's at 350 that's probably not the best situation.   The uneven browning of butter and fairly significant temperature variations across the pan while it's in equilibrium also didn't seem great.  Shouldn't the 2.3mm of aluminum in the pan be smoothing that out, especially after a long time?   But if there's nothing wrong with the pan and the problem lies in the Freak or in my expectations, or methods, then replacing the pan is not useful.    The other issue is that I'm poorly supplied with induction capable pans, so if I want to buy additional pans, I would prefer to get ones that will work----e.g. not more Hestan if it doesn't work with the Freak. 

 

I've seen some suggestions for the Analon copper but am a little puzzled about the line.  Do they really have a significant amount of copper at that price point?

 

Given that my IR thermometers are within 1 deg for the pan at room temperature I have no reason to distrust them---other than the fact that the readings I'm getting from pans are oddly high.  I know the emissivity matters---readings on stainless steel are garbage.  I don't know the emissivity of black teflon---but accuracy at room temperature suggests it's not wildly far from the 0.95 assumed by the sensors. 

[afs]

@adrianvm if you're seeing that big of a discrepancy when measuring the temperature of your pan and the readout of your Control Freak (Home or otherwise), the #1 culprit is going to be the IR thermometer.  It can be rather tricky to get the emissivity dialed in exactly for stainless steel pans.  I use contact sensors when I'm trying to get exact numbers (or an IR camera which I can calibrate to the pan).  Stainless steel also tends to reflect IR light, so that makes readings even more complicated--especially near the corners.

As far as temperatures go, it's pretty unlikely that the top of your pan is going to get hotter (or at least significantly hotter) than the bottom of your pan, since heat travels from hot parts to cold parts--and the bottom of your pan is where the heat is being applied.  Also of note, the Control Freak's temperature sensor should be accurate within 1C (or better) for the point it's touching -- and the induction ring is surrounding that contact point.  That means that technically the heat induced into the pan via the induction coil has to travel (via the pan) to its center before the Control Freak sees the temperature reading.  That's one of the principal reasons why you can get some overshoot when warming up pans: the Control Freak doesn't get the message that the pan has reached the temperature setpoint until the part that its sensor is touching has reached that setpoint.

If you were using super-thin pans which heat extremely quickly then, sure, it's possible to get quite a bit of overshoot from a ~1700 watt induction coil heating at maximum speed.  But with 2.3mm+ stainless-clad pans with an aluminum center, I wouldn't expect such a massive amount of overshoot.

I primarily use Falk Copper Core and Demeyere Atlantis/Proline pans on my Control Freaks.  The Falk are my daily drivers, giving me versatility (lids for each pan, a bazillion pan size options) and quick heat transitions--with a fairly smooth temperature gradient.  The Demeyere disc-based pans tend to give me a pretty consistent temperature across the bottom of the pans.  I have All-Clad pans in several series as well as several other brands.  I've found that pretty much any pan can make good food when there's a human involved using their repertoire of cook skills, but I tend to do a lot of simple "set it and forget it" kind of cooking so I invested more in the pans (which frees up my time and gives me consistent results).

Copper isn't super expensive, but it's rare to find pans which have a significant amount of copper.  When I'm looking for induction-compatible copper pans, I'm looking for ones that are actually copper (i.e. more than half the volume of the pan is actual copper, or ideally closer to 80%).  If the vendor won't give you any numbers to tell you how much copper is in the pan, the answer is usually "enough to say we put some in there."  Cooks know that copper pans work well historically, so having some of the material in a pan is great for marketing and justifying the price of a pan.

I would also avoid any pans that aren't flat on the bottom.  Some pans that say they get flat as they heat up are designed (or marketed) to get flat on the TOP surface but not necessarily on the bottom surface.  I would also avoid any pans that have handles that are so heavy that the pan falls over if there's nothing in it.  I have a couple of those, including some really nice smaller pans--and I have learned that I have to load them up with sufficient weight if I want to cook with them.

One final note...  The Control Freak, in my experience, is designed for pans with a bottom in the 16cm to 26cm range (6.3 to 10 inch).  With induction, it's usually ideal to match the size of the pan to the coil--especially if the pans aren't pushing the energy out to the edges for you.  And if you're going to be using cast iron, be aware that it's technically compatible with induction cooktops but you're probably going to mostly get a ring of heat directly above the coil.  I use cast iron in the oven -- or I preheat it on the oven before putting it on the induction cooktop to maintain temperature.  The only induction stove I'd want to heat cast iron on, and this is a maybe because it's untested, is a continuous-coil cooktop like the Freedom Induction Cooktop.

Edited May 2 by afs
fix typos, grammar (log)