Flat as pancake ciabatta

[Bakerchic]

Hey everyone. I'm a relatively experienced baker (50 yrs), and I've taken a semester of culinary school which included bread making.

I love ciabatta, aka, slipper bread, but have never been able to get the open texture, and a firm structure. To get the open texture, my batter is so loose, it flattens out and bakes up to only about an inch! Still tasty, but looks matter, too.

Any suggestions or help with what I might be doing wrong!?  Is there a pan of some sort I should be using?

[heidih]

What proportions of the ingredients are you using?

[jimb0]

in addition to @heidih's point above, if you could write out your general workflow start to finish, it'd be easier to maybe help figure out what's wrong.

[Bakerchic]

Thank you.  I used 6 cups flour to 3 cups water.  It made it loose, but I was still able to fold and knead a bit.  I used KA  a.p. flour.  I made a sponge of 2c flour to 1 cup water and 12/tsp yeast, let it ferment a day or so, and then added the additional water water and flour.  I used a Kitchen Aid for most of the kneading and then a few minutes by hand just to smooth it into shape. 

[Duvel]

Your recipe translates to about 85-90% hydration, which looks ok. I take it that you are able to determine proper gluten development, so I would rule that out as well. 
Could it be that shaping a high hydration dough could be an issue for you ? Are you able to shape the dough properly (and build structure) after bulk ferment to create enough surface tension, so that the oven spring will have a chance to expand the dough in all directions, rather than the dough flattening out in the oven before the oven spring happens ?

 

[Bakerchic]

Thank you.  And yes, shaping this high hydration dough is a problem.   I think I tried to roll it, while stretching slightly, to make a thick baguette-type shape, but it still collapses.  I am letting it rise after the last shaping, and that''s when it really flattens out. 

[weinoo]

Do you weigh anything, to really get a precise baker's %?

Might help if you're planning on making ciabatta frequently, and really want to get better at it.

 

A ciabatta (along with their other Italian breads) I always liked was the one by Il Fornaio bakery, in San Francisco. I've owned the book since it 

was published in '93: The Il Fornaio Baking Book. (eG-friendly Amazon.com link).  It's quite a bit different than baking books published now, for any number of reasons.

 

Here's what that baker had to say about ciabatta: (ignore my scribble, I try to work in grams now)

 

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Oh - the biga...

 

 

[Bakerchic]

Thank you.  I don't weigh, but I will start doing that, just in case that''s the problem.  It sounds like I just need to keep at it.  My neighbors will be getting a lot of ciabatta in the process. 

[weinoo]

8 hours ago, Bakerchic said:

Thank you.  I don't weigh, but I will start doing that, just in case that''s the problem.  It sounds like I just need to keep at it.  My neighbors will be getting a lot of ciabatta in the process. 

 

This is kind of what I always tell myself, especially when it comes to baking breads, pizza, etc.  I'm sure if we did it every day, they would become increasingly more professional; but we don't, so notes, impressions, taste, etc. are what's used to help us along.

 

Even when we finally bake that perfect ciabatta, loaf, pizza, etc. the next time maybe the weather's different. Maybe the temperature where the dough is rising is different; maybe the flour is different. And on it goes.

[KennethT]

11 minutes ago, weinoo said:

 

This is kind of what I always tell myself, especially when it comes to baking breads, pizza, etc.  I'm sure if we did it every day, they would become increasingly more professional; but we don't, so notes, impressions, taste, etc. are what's used to help us along.

 

Even when we finally bake that perfect ciabatta, loaf, pizza, etc. the next time maybe the weather's different. Maybe the temperature where the dough is rising is different; maybe the flour is different. And on it goes.

One thing that separates a lot of professionals from home is equipment.  Pros have temp/humidity controlled proof boxes, deck ovens,etc. all make a much more consistent product.

[weinoo]

1 minute ago, KennethT said:

One thing that separates a lot of professionals from home is equipment.  Pros have temp/humidity controlled proof boxes, deck ovens,etc. all make a much more consistent product.

Absolutely. They also get up really early to bake.

[Margaret Pilgrim]

Square one = use a scales.