chocolate ganache question

[Chocoguyin Pemby]

Hi all  -  I have used a chocolate ganache recipe in the past and is has always been soft and melt in your mouth - 1 kg chocolate 500 g cream  200 g butter is the recipe.  The last time i made it i tempered the chocolate before adding the warm cream and melted butter at 90F.   When I piped this into the bonbon shells and it set up it was much firmer in texture.  Is that because of the tempered chocolate used for the ganache?  Any insights would be appreciated. 

[Kerry Beal]

Likely yes - but could also be a chocolate with higher cocoa butter content?

[Chocoguyin Pemby]

1 hour ago, Kerry Beal said:

Likely yes - but could also be a chocolate with higher cocoa butter content?

Hi Kerry - thanks for your insight - I don't think it is the chocolate as I have been using the same 811 callebaut for years - I am making another batch tomorrow and will try not tempering it - i think that is what has firmed the ganache up - I have some left over in piping bags and they are all pretty solid - in the past I could pipe them and not need to warm them - i compared the percentages in the recipe to grewling's and they are close - always fun to experiment with chocolate - only making chocolates for special occasions i don't have the routine down pat yet

[retired baker]

On ‎12‎/‎10‎/‎2019 at 11:22 PM, Chocoguyin Pemby said:

Hi all  -  I have used a chocolate ganache recipe in the past and is has always been soft and melt in your mouth - 1 kg chocolate 500 g cream  200 g butter is the recipe.  The last time i made it i tempered the chocolate before adding the warm cream and melted butter at 90F.   When I piped this into the bonbon shells and it set up it was much firmer in texture.  Is that because of the tempered chocolate used for the ganache?  Any insights would be appreciated. 

 

That much butter would tend it toward the very soft.

Tempered choc would become untempered as soon as the hot cream hits it but you wrote warm cream.

Theres the problem.

Scald the cream and it wont make any difference tempered or not.

[Francois Royal]

Hello!

You dont temper chocolate when making chocolate ganache you just melt it no more than 55°C or else it will burn (Yet tempering the chocolate wont effect nothing it still the same thing.)

Dont boil cream over 90°C or else it will burn your chocolate when poring and effect the flavor especially when you add flavors like vanilla

Talking about vanilla, never use vanilla extract for ganache bonbon making ever! LOL you will taste the artificial side of it when you enjoy the bonbon. (not like making ganache, cream patissiere, whipped cream for the cake the artificial flavor is hidden). so always use vanilla paste or beans.

 

Texture: Ganache bonbon it suppose to be very firm like a rock when you hold it, very smooth when you taste it!

I believe you have issue with storage and recipe if texture not pleasant for you.

Let me know if you have any inquiries about this subject, Ill be happy to help.

[Tri2Cook]

4 hours ago, Francois Royal said:

You dont temper chocolate when making chocolate ganache ….. (Yet tempering the chocolate wont effect nothing it still the same thing.)

I'm gonna leave the whys and wherefores to those better qualified and just agree to disagree. Not so much that it's necessary to temper the chocolate, more the part about "tempering the chocolate won't effect nothing".

[Kerry Beal]

6 minutes ago, Tri2Cook said:

I'm gonna leave the whys and wherefores to those better qualified and just agree to disagree. Not so much that it's necessary to temper the chocolate, more the part about "tempering the chocolate won't effect nothing".

Course you can always temper the ganache!

[Tri2Cook]

3 hours ago, Kerry Beal said:

Course you can always temper the ganache!

Yeah, I jumped the gun a little there. I think I was equating tempering the chocolate and tempering the ganache. Two different stages but for some reason I lumped them together in my head. It's the finished ganache that I (ez)temper, not the chocolate I'm using to make the ganache. Whoops. 

[Yoda]

Not sure if this is the right place to post my question, but I didn't want to open a new thread since mine is also a ganache question, so here goes:

When making ganache - how come the hot cream doesn't burn the chocolate?

I know this might be a silly question,  but I was wondering, if you have to be so careful not to heat chocolate beyond 45°C or so so it doesn't burn, how come the high heat from the cream (when making ganache) doesn't cause some of the chocolate to burn? Surely some of it gets heated beyond 45°C in the process, doesn't it (especially if making 1:3 chocolate:cream)?

And I'm asking because I wanted to try and combine ganache with caramel, and wasn't sure how to go about that - should I cool the caramel to 45C and then add chocolate, or should I pour the caramel over the chocolate when it cools to lets say 70-60C or so? Or maybe I could try melting chocolate to 45 and mixing it with caramel at 45?..now that I'm writing this down, the final approach seams the most reasonable, right?

To add even more confusion (to myself, maybe it's all clear to you xD) - I went through the chapter for caramels in Moratos book, and there I found my answer when to add chocolate (114C) which is beyond the temperature I'd ever dare adding it - wouldn't this burn the chocolate?? I mean, if it's in the book I completely trust and accept it wouldn't, but I'm struggling to understand why.

Similarly to when caramelizing white chocolate - wouldn't that be 'burning chocolate' in a way too? What's the difference between caramelizing and burning if caramelizing takes place in the oven at 120°C while it burns already at 45°C (or even sooner for white)?

If anyone would care to explain, my perplexed mind would be ever so grateful

[Kerry Beal]

1 minute ago, Yoda said:

Not sure if this is the right place to post my question, but I didn't want to open a new thread since mine is also a ganache question, so here goes:

When making ganache - how come the hot cream doesn't burn the chocolate?

I know this might be a silly question,  but I was wondering, if you have to be so careful not to heat chocolate beyond 45°C or so so it doesn't burn, how come the high heat from the cream (when making ganache) doesn't cause some of the chocolate to burn? Surely some of it gets heated beyond 45°C in the process, doesn't it (especially if making 1:3 chocolate:cream)?

And I'm asking because I wanted to try and combine ganache with caramel, and wasn't sure how to go about that - should I cool the caramel to 45C and then add chocolate, or should I pour the caramel over the chocolate when it cools to lets say 70-60C or so? Or maybe I could try melting chocolate to 45 and mixing it with caramel at 45?..now that I'm writing this down, the final approach seams the most reasonable, right?

To add even more confusion (to myself, maybe it's all clear to you xD) - I went through the chapter for caramels in Moratos book, and there I found my answer when to add chocolate (114C) which is beyond the temperature I'd ever dare adding it - wouldn't this burn the chocolate?? I mean, if it's in the book I completely trust and accept it wouldn't, but I'm struggling to understand why.

Similarly to when caramelizing white chocolate - wouldn't that be 'burning chocolate' in a way too? What's the difference between caramelizing and burning if caramelizing takes place in the oven at 120°C while it burns already at 45°C (or even sooner for white)?

If anyone would care to explain, my perplexed mind would be ever so grateful

Chocolate can tolerate much higher temperatures than 45º C. Burning it usually requires overheating it in the microwave with nothing added to it - adding very warm liquids to it won't burn it. 

 

Imagine if making hot chocolate resulted in burning the chocolate!

 

I pour hot caramel over milk chocolate on a regular basis to make a caramel ganache. 

 

Caramelizing white chocolate is accomplished by the maillard reaction (reducing sugar reacts with amino acids) rather than the caramelized sugar you think of when you put sugar in a pot and heat until it is golden (or darker).

 

 

[Yoda]

10 minutes ago, Kerry Beal said:

Chocolate can tolerate much higher temperatures than 45º C. Burning it usually requires overheating it in the microwave with nothing added to it - adding very warm liquids to it won't burn it. 

That's why I was confused why you should never heat chocolate above 45 or 50C.

 

10 minutes ago, Kerry Beal said:

Imagine if making hot chocolate resulted in burning the chocolate!

I know, and that's why I felt silly asking the question, but since 'don't overheat it' or 'chocolate burns so easily', etc.came up over and over, I kinda started scratching my head on the subject lol.

So chocolate doesn't burn as easily as everyone a lot of people say?

 

I think I'm going to have to read a thing or two about Millard reaction too x)

 

I must admit though, it still sounds strange (to me) to add chocolate to 114C caramel (from everything I've read and heard)..I guess it really doesn't burn as easily.. 

[Kerry Beal]

I have burned chocolate - usually has been white chocolate (although I have burned milk and dark) - but it seems to have been related to some impurities in the bowl and the microwave waves have burned a swath through it. Smells awful and leaves little crunchy bit in it!

[Yoda]

15 minutes ago, Kerry Beal said:

I have burned chocolate - usually has been white chocolate (although I have burned milk and dark) - but it seems to have been related to some impurities in the bowl and the microwave waves have burned a swath through it. Smells awful and leaves little crunchy bit in it!

Lol, as a non-native eng speaker I don't understand exactly what 'burning a swath through' means (google wasn't of much help) but I can only imagine and it sounds extreme lol - in my mind I imagine an electric arc 🤣🤣

 

I'll take this as a consolation to being stuck with the double boiler method, and not having a working microwave atm then x)..

Well, I guess I'll be trying making some chocolate caramel in the near future

 

Thanks for explaining some stuff 

[Kerry Beal]

49 minutes ago, Yoda said:

Lol, as a non-native eng speaker I don't understand exactly what 'burning a swath through' means (google wasn't of much help) but I can only imagine and it sounds extreme lol - in my mind I imagine an electric arc 🤣🤣

 

I'll take this as a consolation to being stuck with the double boiler method, and not having a working microwave atm then x)..

Well, I guess I'll be trying making some chocolate caramel in the near future

 

Thanks for explaining some stuff 

If you have ever seen the burn pattern made by lightening - would be similar - cutting a path through the chocolate - not burning the whole thing.