New Anova Pro

[boilsover]

On 5/5/2019 at 1:48 PM, dscheidt said:

No.  10K hours continuous use is entirely different from how the consumer models are intended to be used. 

 

I suppose it depends on the consumer and restaurant you are comparing.  If Anova designed what came before to die under heavy use, shame on them.  Do you have 10K hours on a circulator?  How many hours are the basic units supposed to last?  They're basically like a disposable hairdryer.

 

Again, they've apparently improved on the basic unit(s) with this model.  That's good.  If that's what it takes to get everyone to build units like this, even better.  

 

But if this is a gambit like Polyscience's Control Freak (and other products), I don't see it.  Someone/everyone will knock them off, and it' go for more like $150.

 

Again, who cares about 0.05 degree precision?

[JoNorvelleWalker]

17 minutes ago, boilsover said:

 

I suppose it depends on the consumer and restaurant you are comparing.  If Anova designed what came before to die under heavy use, shame on them.  Do you have 10K hours on a circulator?  How many hours are the basic units supposed to last?  They're basically like a disposable hairdryer.

 

Again, they've apparently improved on the basic unit(s) with this model.  That's good.  If that's what it takes to get everyone to build units like this, even better.  

 

But if this is a gambit like Polyscience's Control Freak (and other products), I don't see it.  Someone/everyone will knock them off, and it' go for more like $150.

 

Again, who cares about 0.05 degree precision?

 

Last I checked* the PolyScience was $799.95.  As for disposable hairdryers, that's why I bought a Dyson.  Temperature?  If I can measure it I care about it.  Your mileage may vary.

 

 

*which is just now.

 

 

[boilsover]

13 minutes ago, JoNorvelleWalker said:

 

Last I checked* the PolyScience was $799.95.  As for disposable hairdryers, that's why I bought a Dyson.  Temperature?  If I can measure it I care about it.  Your mileage may vary.

 

 

*which is just now.

 

 

 

All Polyscience products are grossly overpriced.  Don't you agree?  Eh, maybe not, if you dropped $400 on a handheld hair dryer--not the kinda thing you'd put 10K continuous hours on.  

 

What on Earth are you cooking that 0.05C temperature accuracy matters?  This kind of stuff is self-worth marketing.   

[JoNorvelleWalker]

2 hours ago, boilsover said:

 

All Polyscience products are grossly overpriced.  Don't you agree?  Eh, maybe not, if you dropped $400 on a handheld hair dryer--not the kinda thing you'd put 10K continuous hours on.  

 

What on Earth are you cooking that 0.05C temperature accuracy matters?  This kind of stuff is self-worth marketing.   

 

Many PolyScience products are overpriced.  I don't see what justifies the cost of the Control Freak, for example.  Nonetheless my PolyScience 300 was a good deal when I bought it, though I notice they have since raised the price.  Still, I would not hesitate to purchase one again as I have seen nothing better for the cost.  I don't see how I ever lived without it.

 

And why the hate for Dyson?  I use it on my hair and often on my dinner.  It is a joy to use.  It brings pleasure every day.  Not all products can say that.  I'm thinking about getting a Dyson for my granddaughter.  If you want to make fun of me I also have an iPad, two of them.  They work.

 

Back to circulators, eggs matter when you pasteurize them.  I have no complaints with my original anova, it is quite accurate.

 

 

[boilsover]

13 hours ago, JoNorvelleWalker said:

And why the hate for Dyson?

 

No hate.  I admire a company that can get $400 for a handheld hairdryer.  If it brings you pleasure, that's nice.

 

13 hours ago, JoNorvelleWalker said:

[E]ggs matter when you pasteurize them

 

Sure, I get that; pork matters, too.  But are you ever in doubt that a 0.05 C discernment error could result in salmonella poisoning or trichinosis?  Isn't this like some car maker claiming to have a speedometer that is accurate out to 4 decimal places?

Edited May 7, 2019 by boilsover (log)

[paulraphael]

44 minutes ago, boilsover said:

 

Sure, I get that; pork matters, too.  But are you ever in doubt that a 0.05 C discernment error could result in salmonella poisoning or trichinosis?  Isn't this like some car maker claiming to have a speedometer that is accurate out to 4 decimal places?

 

 

No one is going to buy the thing because it's got an extra decimal point of precision. The value of the thing is that it's built to handle more use and abuse than a consumer version. Details like extra precision just tell a buyer that the company's sweating details and using high-quality parts. 

 

As far as Poly Science goes, I'd be a bit more specific and suggest that they're overpriced by the current standards of the culinary market—which is a rapidly changing one. Their prices are completely in line with other lab equipment makers (which is their back story) and also in line with the culinary market a dozen years ago (when they were the only game in town). Their problem is that is that they haven't adapted as quickly as Anova.

 

Edited to add: we won't really know that PS is overpriced in the pro circulator market until the Anova has had a chance to prove itself. I suspect PS won't be in trouble unless they sit on their hands for another year ... and the Anova turns out to be as burly as promised. 

Edited May 7, 2019 by paulraphael (log)

[rotuts]

@paulraphael

 

thoughfult comments.

 

Sometimes its best to Ignore BO, if not course consistently 

 

not of course before your go to a Fine  Galla , personally etc

 

"" just tell a buyer that the company's sweating details and using high-quality parts. "

 

possibly.  Anova's , bluetooth , can be had for $ 100

 

Im only curious , and not suggesting anything at all

 

3- 4 of those

 

run 10 hours a day

 

might last , one at a time for ............... long.

 

Im just annoyed they have not put similar time in

 

the Anova Combi Oven.

 

just saying

 

 

Edited May 10, 2019 by rotuts (log)

[boilsover]

4 hours ago, paulraphael said:

No one is going to buy the thing because it's got an extra decimal point of precision.

 

Well, it's in their ad copy, else we wouldn't be discussing it.

 

Speaking of ad copy, they tout a 2-year limited warranty.  You get the same 2 years on the $129 model.       

[dscheidt]

On 5/6/2019 at 9:44 PM, boilsover said:

 

I suppose it depends on the consumer and restaurant you are comparing.  If Anova designed what came before to die under heavy use, shame on them.  Do you have 10K hours on a circulator?  How many hours are the basic units supposed to last?  They're basically like a disposable hairdryer.

 

 

I guess you think it's wrong that you can buy a Chevrolet, and not just a Daimler. 

[paulraphael]

12 hours ago, boilsover said:

 

Well, it's in their ad copy, else we wouldn't be discussing it.

 

Speaking of ad copy, they tout a 2-year limited warranty.  You get the same 2 years on the $129 model.       

 

It's a distracting detail that you won't let go of in the middle of a more interesting discussion.

 

Re: warranties, 2 years is long for a commercial kitchen appliance. A home Vitamix is warranted for 5 years. A Vita Prep for 1 year. This doesn't suggest the VP is lower quality, just that the company knows it's going to get abused. 

 

Rotus, I should listen to you.

[gfweb]

15 minutes ago, paulraphael said:

 

 

 

Rotus, I should listen to you.

 

We all should.

[boilsover]

1 hour ago, paulraphael said:

 

It's a distracting detail that you won't let go of in the middle of a more interesting discussion.

 

 

 

The only things interesting about the new Anova are:  50% more power, higher flow, and fewer plastic parts.  I doubt there's a single purchaser who will EVER run 10,000 continuous hours on one, so that claim is equally distracting as the 0.05C accuracy.   But the whole schtick feeds into the aspirational marketing needed to sell a $400 circulator.

[jimb0]

I won't buy one because I don't have 240V outlets in my kitchen.

 

But I can see the appeal. I use my Anova often enough in the kitchen that it's starting to grumble, and this is after I put the Sansaire I kickstartered in its final cabinet resting place (theoretically it still works so I've avoided tossing it, but....). You're clearly not in the market for it, and that's fine, but I frankly think it shows a lack of imagination if you can conceive of anyone being interested in it.

 

Frankly I found the Joule vaguely tempting because of its size and design but while I like chefsteps and support them, I also find their weird insistence on pushing the joule to be distasteful in some recipes.

[teonzo]

4 hours ago, jimb0 said:

while I like chefsteps and support them, I also find their weird insistence on pushing the joule to be distasteful in some recipes.

 

Agreed 200%, that's one of the reasons why I rarely follow them nowadays.

 

 

As @rotuts pointed out, there aren't many reasons for a restaurant to buy this new pro version. For the same price you buy multiple units of the home version. If you need extra power then you just have to use 2 home units in the same water vessel. Same if you need extra caution to avoid troubles if a unit breaks overnight. The 10k hours warranty is nice, but it does not imply your pro unit will absolutely never break before that time: defective units are behind the corner, human errors too. If you have only 1 pro unit and it breaks, then you are screwed for the day (or more), if you have multiple home units then you face some delay at worst. With multiple home units you can make different tasks at the same time, with 1 pro unit only 1. Can't see good reasons for a restaurant to get the pro version.

 

 

 

Teo

 

[paulraphael]

5 hours ago, jimb0 said:

I won't buy one because I don't have 240V outlets in my kitchen.

 

The 1200 watt version is 120v.

 

 

[jimb0]

3 minutes ago, paulraphael said:

The 1200 watt version is 120v.

 

 

Ah, I missed that, thanks; I couldn't find it anywhere on their site. Presumably it's cheaper? When we're talking about its wattage, do we mean total, or strictly the heater.

[paulraphael]

1 hour ago, teonzo said:

As @rotuts pointed out, there aren't many reasons for a restaurant to buy this new pro version. For the same price you buy multiple units of the home version. If you need extra power then you just have to use 2 home units in the same water vessel.

 

We'll have to see how restaurant owners make their value calculations. Using your kind of thinking, plenty of restaurants use Kitchenaid mixers for light duty countertop stuff, rather than springing for a Globe or Hobart. 

 

But in these cases, they're comparing a $400 good-enough mixer to a $2600 commercial mixer. I don't know if they'd see the $150 vs. $400 comparison the same way. $400 is pretty cheap for a piece of commercial kitchen equipment, especially if it's one you'll be using all day every day. 

[paulraphael]

3 minutes ago, jimb0 said:

 

Ah, I missed that, thanks; I couldn't find it anywhere on their site. Presumably it's cheaper? When we're talking about its wattage, do we mean total, or strictly the heater.

 

Not 100% sure, but usually with this kind of thing, it's some engineering number that reflects the maximum number of watts the thing can draw from the wall for some length of time. Which means the real world max output of the heater would lower. This would be the same for other circulators, as well as kettles, toasters, microwaves, etc. 

 

I always start with hot water from the tap, and for large batches I use a cooler, so power output is my lowest priority with circulators. Not sure I'd notice  the difference between 800 and 1200 watts. At a restaurant where they've got 30 quart Cambros, with people opening the lid all the time, it might be a different story. 

[rotuts]

I always use coolers , as I don't have any Cambros

 

Ive used a 30 Qt cooler and a 36 qt cooler with the bluetooth Anova, starting w hot tap water

 

using bubble shipping wrap cut for the top

 

Ive never had a problem w long cooks.

 

Ive also put more packets than one might initially this is ' safe '

 

just as long as all the packed wiggle a little , and Im careful to give them a stir until the total contents of the

 

cooler reach equilibrium i.e. the set temp

 

so little heat is lost , i.e. the outside of the cooker is not even warm

 

the bluetooth Anova just keeps on chugging  and getting the job done

Edited May 9, 2019 by rotuts (log)

[paulraphael]

42 minutes ago, rotuts said:

I Ive used a 30 Qt cooler and a 36 qt cooler with the bluetooth Anova, starting w hot tap water

 

 

Yeah, I'd guess that with a covered cooler any circulator could easily manage 100L.

[dscheidt]

1 hour ago, paulraphael said:

 

Not 100% sure, but usually with this kind of thing, it's some engineering number that reflects the maximum number of watts the thing can draw from the wall for some length of time. Which means the real world max output of the heater would lower. This would be the same for other circulators, as well as kettles, toasters, microwaves, etc. 

 

I always start with hot water from the tap, and for large batches I use a cooler, so power output is my lowest priority with circulators. Not sure I'd notice  the difference between 800 and 1200 watts. At a restaurant where they've got 30 quart Cambros, with people opening the lid all the time, it might be a different story. 

The anovas I have tested (two of the BT ones, one of the piece of shit mini thing) all drew slightly more than their claimed heater output the entire time the heater is running; the excess is in line with what it draws when the heater isn't on.  In a big container, starting with cold tap water, and going to a high temperature, that can be a couple hours.  Once they get close they cycle the heater on-off, no intermediate power setting. 

[rotuts]

an advantage to coolers , with a thermal top

 

( remember : coolers are made to keep items cold, not hot .  they have very little to no insulation in the top )

 

is you can pack more into them , using as much space as possible, as long as there is a little giggling 

 

you just have to pay a little attention to the Mass before it reaches equilibrium.

[paulraphael]

27 minutes ago, dscheidt said:

The anovas I have tested (two of the BT ones, one of the piece of shit mini thing) all drew slightly more than their claimed heater output the entire time the heater is running; the excess is in line with what it draws when the heater isn't on.  In a big container, starting with cold tap water, and going to a high temperature, that can be a couple hours.  Once they get close they cycle the heater on-off, no intermediate power setting. 

 

Interesting! I didn't think PIDs worked that way. 

 

Is the POS mini thing the nano? What do you hate? I've never seen one but always thought it would be nice as a 2nd one and for travel.

[jimb0]

I was mostly wondering about the wattage because there's no reason to keep the 1800W unit to 240V if that's its maximum draw. Kind of annoying.

Edited May 9, 2019 by jimb0 (log)

[teonzo]

5 hours ago, paulraphael said:

We'll have to see how restaurant owners make their value calculations. Using your kind of thinking, plenty of restaurants use Kitchenaid mixers for light duty countertop stuff, rather than springing for a Globe or Hobart.  

 

That's what happens here in Europe, biggest stand mixer I saw in a restaurant kitchen (and heard of) is a Kitchen Aid Heavy Duty. Some restaurants have a small spiral mixer for bread (the ones that make big batches and freeze them), that's all.

Most probably it's a matter of restaurant size: here in Europe michelin star restaurants (the ones that rely heavily on sous vide) range mostly from 20 to 40 covers, few of them reach around 60, you can count on one hand the ones over 60 covers. As far as I understand there in the USA most restaurants range from 100 to 200 covers, so that's something really different. Seems like we both took for granted our different situations.

 

 

 

Teo