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Paul Bacino

Looking for a deep dish cast iron pizza pan? (Now with completed Pizza )

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I turn to you all for some help.  I internet ed and came up with really nothing for making a Detroit style pizza.


Edited by Paul Bacino (log)

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I was going to suggest Lodge, but @gfweb beat me to it.

 

Should you ever find yourself in SE Tennessee, I highly recommend a stop by the Lodge factory store in South Pittsburg.

 

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Don't ask. Eat it.

www.kayatthekeyboard.wordpress.com

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I just used that particular pan for skillet pizza. Started the pizza on top of the stove on medium heat for 4 minutes (until edges puffed up slightly, and bottom was lightly brown), and then transferred to upper rack in 500 degree oven. Turned out great. 

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My Bad on this Post!!  ( Maybe one of the Mod's, can add rectangular to my topic post )

 

I wanted a rectangle one .


Edited by Paul Bacino (log)

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3 hours ago, Paul Bacino said:

My Bad on this Post!!  ( Maybe one of the Mod's, can add rectangular to my topic post )

 

I wanted a rectangle one .

 

How large?  Here is a 9.5" x 13" cast iron lasagna pan but it might be a little deeper (3") than you want...

 

https://www.amazon.com/112010-01-Artisan-Preseasoned-Rectangular-Lasagna/dp/B072QGBNHG/ref=sr_1_4?s=kitchen&ie=UTF8&qid=1550164844&sr=1-4&keywords=cast+iron+lasagna

 

 

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5 hours ago, Paul Bacino said:

This is what I'[m looking to achieve..

 

https://www.smallmangalley.org/restaurants/iron-born/

 

 

There's not a snowball's chance in hell that Iron Born is using iron pans.  Detroit style is always made with either steel or aluminum. Cast iron would take way too long to heat up in the oven,and you'd never find kitchen staff willing to work for you.  Can you imagine washing that many cast iron pans? Yeesh!

 

This is what Iron Born is using:

 

https://www.nextpittsburgh.com/eatdrink/the-detroit-style-pizza-wave-gains-momentum-in-the-citys-culinary-scene/

 

"Pittsburgh native chef Pete Tolman of Iron Born uses a two-day fermentation process to create his flavorful, cloud-like dough, but credits the same kind of small steel pans for getting the caramelization and crunch just right"

 

https://theincline.com/2018/03/10/how-detroit-is-changing-pittsburgh-pizza-as-we-know-it/

 

"His process begins with mixing the dough, letting it rest for 24 hours, rounding the dough, and letting it rest again for 24 hours before pressing it into aluminum, non-stick pans."

 

As you can see, he's using both aluminum and steel. If you watch this video carefully,

 

 

you'll see a pan at the very beginning with a squared off edge- that's aluminum.  Later, you'll see a group of pans with wired corners.  That's steel.

 

The two most popular brands of Detroit pans are

 

https://www.detroitstylepizza.com/product/10-x-14-steel-dsp-pan/ (steel)

 

https://lloydpans.com/landing-pages/detroit (anodized aluminum)

 

If you look at the video carefully, you'll see that the first pan looks exactly like Lloyds and the later pans are perfect facsimiles of the Detroit Style Pizza Co.  Based on their massive popularity within the industry, I guarantee you that these are the two brands that Iron Born is working with.


Edited by scott123 (log)
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Yeah, if this is meant to be Detroit-style deep dish, it's a steel pan.  Buddy's is the supposed origin, the pans are shown quite a bit in this video.

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26 minutes ago, Kim Shook said:

Like @scott123, my first thought was Detroit-style pizza, which I had never heard of until fairly recently, but am intrigued by.  (I guess Food Network is good for something, after all.)  I think steel is the way to go.

 

I did like the blue steel and Cast..    Cant wait to play, now.

 

@Kim Shook--    serious eats has info on cooking Detroit style/  that I'm looking at      /   I have cooked pizza in a cast iron pan and  it ain't bad.   

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6 hours ago, Paul Bacino said:

 

@Kim Shook--    serious eats has info on cooking Detroit style/  that I'm looking at      /   I have cooked pizza in a cast iron pan and  it ain't bad.   

 

 

Kenji is a valuable resource in some areas, but he knows very little about pizza.  If you're looking to do research, I"d hit up pizzamaking.com long before seriouseats.  You'll most likely get some different opinions, but the net takeaway will be head and shoulders beyond seriouseats.  Seriouseats is  ONLY for people making their very first pizza.  If you're trying to tackle Iron Born, you need both good intermediate and advanced direction.

 

Pizzamaking.com member 'Hotsawce' helped develop Emmy Squared's recipe, one of the top Detroit places in NY.  Whatever advice he gives you, follow it.

 

Detroit and cast iron pan pizza are very different animals.  Detroit is typically puffier because of the superior conductivity of the thinner steel (or aluminum).  Trust me on this, you will never match Iron Born with a cast iron pan.

 

I'm seeing articles mention Iron Born baking on steel decks as well.  This isn't the steel plate that home pizza makers use, but it is a stone deck oven analog.  You will most likely want to bake on a hearth, maybe stone, maybe steel. I would try stone first, if you have it, and see how the bottom turns out.

 

Iron Born uses the traditional brick cheese, so you're going to want to track that down.

 

They also use organic flour.  Sperry flour (General Mills) is popular in the industry.  That's what I'd put my money on.  Central Milling is popular, but these don't feel like your typical Central Milling fan boys. If you track down Sperry, make sure it's the higher protein version (12%).  If it is Sperry, you might be able to get away with Heckers (11.8% protein).  You do NOT want Kenji's 73% hydration with Heckers.  I would say 70%, maybe less. A video of Iron Born topping pizzas would be nice, but, I can't find one.

 

Edit: Fixed incorrect reference regarding cheese.


Edited by scott123 (log)
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Gee .. thanks for all the input  @scott123

 

47272455001_0d543666fd_c.jpg

33396599978_58b9bd7909_b.jpg

40307743663_2c2c447a23_b.jpg

 

I did this for my first Detroit red 

 

KA 12/7% flour--Sperry ( GM )  / not easy to find

 

200g flour--65% hydration/ salt/ and canola honey 

1 day cellar rise and in pan spread for 6 hrs

Pre-heated 500 degree oven

Par Baked 2 mins

Added my warmed meat--I used Canadian bacon and mushroom

Add Wisconsin white chedder ( cubed ) and Provel

3 runs of red

Baked 10 mins on lower wire shelve --8 mins upper shelve and 2 min broil 

cooled on wire rack

 

Post thoughts:

I didn't make enough dough for this pan ( Detroit  blue steel )/ dont have measurements now.

Wasnt to worried about this first test run..  pan needed seasoning

Now to check other recipes, flour and Diastic malts

 

 

 

Cheers Doc B

 

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Posted (edited)

Interesting :)

 

Is this the hygluten version of the Sperry or the regular?

 

There's a variety of substitutions for brick cheese, and the direction they like to take is cheddar-y.  Personally, I've never worked with brick cheese, but, from the way it bakes up, it looks more like a quality mozzarella than cheddar. I do know that provel is not a part of the equation- unless you've spent time in S. Louis and that's your preference.  I think you'll see a much better melt with mozzarella- if not 70/30 motz/jack, then 100% of a good aged mozzarella- look for yellow and firm, not white and soft- wholesale is ideal.

 

The sauce for Detroit is always cooked separately and added post bake.

 

I played around with Detroit for the first time this week (sshh... don't tell anyone).  One conclusion that I came to is that if you add oil to your dough, it acts like a magnet and really ramps up the oiliness in the finished product.

 

Detroit is typically not parbaked.  I think you figured this out by the fact that you needed to broil it.  Getting rid of the parbake will go a long way towards giving you a better cheese melt, as the rising steam from the dough as it cooks will help bubble and oil the cheese off.

 

There's going to a be an oven shelf where the top and the bottom finish baking at the same time, but, until you figure it out, I'd go with the lower middle shelf, and start checking the color on the bottom after about 12 minutes.  If the cheese starts taking on too much color, until you get the right shelf, you can slow down the cheese with a misting of water.

 

Is 500 as hot as your oven will go?

 

I preach quite a bit about the evils of excess water in pizza dough, but, for Detroit, there's a practical aspect regarding the water.  Lower water doughs are going to take considerably more effort to stretch into the corners of the pan. Depending on which Sperry this is, I might kick the water up to 70%- or possibly even higher.

 

Kenji does a thing on his pan pies where he gently lifts the dough just prior to topping so that the bubbles between the pan and the dough deflate.

 

Edit:  Oh, and I'm sure you're working towards this, and getting rid of the provel will help, but, it's essential that you build your cheese against the wall of the pan, so it fries and you end up with the characteristic 'frico' of Detroit. Get your frico on :)


Edited by scott123 (log)
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2 hours ago, scott123 said:

 

 

2 hours ago, scott123 said:

 

@scott123

I really figured this was going to be.. the first pancake on the griddle thing, get a first season on the pan.  I didn't expect to much and I needed to see how it preformed.

 

As far as the Sperry ( roundhouse)  had 50# bags..  but when I ordered one bag.  she called me a cancelled it cuz I needed to Buy 55 bags  WTF.

 

So  locally I found King Arthur 12.7 .

 

I actually know this wasn't  near the deal, but work in progress.  I love the comments.    

 

I have a few other supplies coming..  --I ordered some Diastatic malt  and looking for a higher protein flour ( General mills said a couple )  one was Old Trump ( 14+ )  and I know in that article from the above post u gave a few others.   I was going to call IB ..just to ask a few questions But I figured they were getting ready for Vegas ( Pizza Expo ) which I wanted to attend but didn't work for my scheduled.

 

Thanks again  " x "                thats  "Bacino"  aka  " the little kiss "

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54 minutes ago, Paul Bacino said:

 

@scott123

So  locally I found King Arthur 12.7 .

 

Sorry, I missed where you said KA.  One thing that I learned about re Detroit this week, is that a 13%ish flour, with a typical thin NY stretch, can be pretty tender, but when you start getting into a Detroit thickness, bread flours can get a bit chewy.  When you get the thickness right, you should be able to compare it to your memory of IB, but, I would also test a strong AP, like Heckers.  I'm pretty sure that KABF will be happy at around 72% water, and, I might try 66% with AP. 

 

At 14%, I would definitely avoid All Trumps, unless you're certain that IB was super chewy.  

 

 

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