Fermentation Inspiration......

[Martin Fisher]

My current fermentation annotation:

 

I have three sauerkraut experiments going—a crankraut that includes cranberries (of course,) red cabbage, the zest of two oranges and a little reduced orange and cranberry juice.

As well as a red cabbage kraut with a little Balsamic vinegar for flavor, and one with a little red wine vinegar—not much in either case.

 

I'm also constantly making milk kefir—and kefir cheese.

 

And vinegar. Beer vinegar is 'always' the cheapest to make. LOL 

 

I'm considering trying kombucha, if i can make it keto-friendly! 

 

I'm going to ferment some hot chile concoctions soon! 

 

When it warms up some, I'll 'fire-up' the curing chamber and ferment some sausages.

 

And you—what are you currently fermenting?

[heidih]

You might enjoy Rene Redzepi's Fermentation Bible or the podcasts he did with Ed Levine. "Its a whole neq world" as they say. Do report back.  https://forums.egullet.org/topic/157691-rene-redzepi-on-serious-eats/

 

[Martin Fisher]

3 minutes ago, heidih said:

Rene Redzepi's Fermentation Bible

 

I've had that on my list for a while!

I can't decide if I want the hard copy or the Kindle version! Hmmm!!!!! 

[lemniscate]

I don't have anything fermenting at the moment but I did a batch of sauerkraut with shredded cabbage and  Brussel sprouts together.  It was based on something my Mom remembered when my Grandparents would put up the barrel of kraut in the basement.   They would shred large heads of cabbage.   Farmers sold tiny immature heads of cabbage (late in the season heads that would likely not make it to full size) and these would be put whole into the barrel embedded in the shredded cabbage.  According to Mom, these tiny heads were the most desired part of the kraut and the kids would fight over who got them when the kraut was done.  The Brussels sprouts turned out very close to what Mom remembered.  They got sweeter and lost the bitterness that can be a problem in sprouts.

 

I also did a crock of fermented garlic cloves and whole shallots once.  I thought that was really good and pungent.  I then fermented carrots  and celery in the some leftover garlic/shallot juice.  That stuff was tasty.

 

Tell me about the beer vinegar.  I have tried making fruit vinegar a couple times and it was just too funky for my tastes.    

[Martin Fisher]

39 minutes ago, lemniscate said:

Farmers sold tiny immature heads of cabbage (late in the season heads that would likely not make it to full size) and these would be put whole into the barrel embedded in the shredded cabbage.

 

Yes, those late season cabbages are the most valued—especially after a frost. That brings out the sugars.

I've posted about whole head kraut in the past, I can't remember if it was here or on another forum.

I'll post about beer vinegar later today—I've got a lot of chores to do!

[Martin Fisher]

1 hour ago, lemniscate said:

Tell me about the beer vinegar.

 

Okay, I'm taking a break already. LOL

Ruhlman's homage to his dad several years ago is what sparked my interest in beer vinegar.

Like anything, the result is going to depend on the ingredient(s) you start with.

Vinegar made from Pabst Blue Ribbon is going to be vastly different than vinegar made from Guinness Draught Stout!

 

“I started making beer vinegar back when I was at Cento,” Sawyer says. “We cleared our beer lines regularly and so were flushing about two gallons of really good European-style beers a week. I didn’t want to waste it. I first combined the beer with some Bragg’s cider vinegar, which looked like it had enough stuff at the bottom to get the vinegar going. But I thought that the result took on too many characteristics of the cider vinegar, so now I just let it ferment on its own. You could add a mother if you want to, but I haven’t needed it.”

[TicTac]

I am interested in making my own sauerkraut - 

 

I do not have any special equipment but do have access to great organic cabbage. 

 

Am I able to do so with a large glass jar?  What would a basic process be?  I like my sauerkraut very 'sour', if that helps!

 

Many thanks!!

[kayb]

5 hours ago, DiggingDogFarm said:

 

And you—what are you currently fermenting?

 

Nothing at the moment, but I made some marvelous Indian-spiced fermented cauliflower, and some Brussels Sprout kimchi that is pretty excellent.

 

1 hour ago, TicTac said:

I am interested in making my own sauerkraut - 

 

I do not have any special equipment but do have access to great organic cabbage. 

 

Am I able to do so with a large glass jar?  What would a basic process be?  I like my sauerkraut very 'sour', if that helps!

 

Many thanks!!

 

Shred your cabbage and mix in 1 tbsp kosher salt per pound of cabbage. Knead it with your hands, hard, to bruise the cabbage a bit. Pack it into your glass jars, using a tamper of some sort to squish it down as tight as possible. (I use a skinny olive oil bottle.) Put a whole cabbage leaf over the top, and a weight of some sort (a plastic bag filled with salt water will work just fine) over that. If the cabbage doesn't make enough brine on its own to cover the kraut in a day, you'll need to add some water (1 tbsp salt to a quart) to cover. Cover the jars with cheesecloth or waxed paper and secure with a rubber band, and set in an out-of-the-way corner out of direct sunlight. I let my kraut go six weeks; the longer you ferment, the more "sour" it'll go. 

 

I make mine five gallons at a time in a big food-grade bucket with a dinner plate for a weight, and then I water-bath can it. Yes, it kills the good probiotics, but the wonderful taste is still there. I opened a jar the other day to have with brats, fried potatoes and beans, which led to my "needing" to buy corned beef, swiss cheese and rye bread at the grocery so I could have Reubens this week.

 

[Martin Fisher]

1 hour ago, TicTac said:

Am I able to do so with a large glass jar?  What would a basic process be?

There are many ways to do it.

I typically ferment in wide mouth canning jars, both quart and half gallon.

I pack the evenly shredded cabbage to eliminate any air.

2% equilibrium brine—in other words, add ~2% salt to the shredded cabbage, by weight.

I top off with 2% brine all the way to the rim, I then insert an empty 1/2 pint Ball quilted jelly jar to catch any expansion. (the jelly jar should fit snugly against the lid)

Making sure that the brine still comes to the rim of the canning jars, I then top the jar with a loose lid (no band), and top with a pint jar filled with water—that creates an airlock.

The jar is not opened until fermentation is complete.

No mold or yeast growth.

It will get more and more sour the longer it ferments.

 

Here's about all you need to know about sauerkraut: https://www.meatsandsausages.com/fermenting-pickling/sauerkraut

[THS]

7 hours ago, DiggingDogFarm said:

And you—what are you currently fermenting?

I'm currently experimenting with Koji and trying some new things that are in the Noma Guide to Fermentation.

 

I've made my first batch of pearl barley with A. luchuensis this weekend: https://forums.egullet.org/topic/157654-koji-and-garums-noma-guide-to-fermentation/?tab=comments#comment-2185370

I'm currently not sure what I want to do with this batch. If somebody has an idea I'm open to experiment.

[Martin Fisher]

19 hours ago, heidih said:

Rene Redzepi's Fermentation Bible

 

I ordered the book. 

Another good book, that's been around a long time, is Handbook of Fermented Functional Foods by Edward Farnworth.

It's over 500 pages with lots of information, and proper attribution!

[Martin Fisher]

Wow! 

There's a LOT of information in The Noma Guide to Fermentation by By René Redzepi and David Zilber

Over 450 pages!!! 

Black apples in the style of black garlic!? 

Interesting!!! 

[blue_dolphin]

19 minutes ago, DiggingDogFarm said:

Wow! 

There's a LOT of information in The Noma Guide to Fermentation by By René Redzepi and David Zilber

 

I took a peek at it at the library the other day and decided I wouldn't be able to more than scratch the surface in a 2-week new book loan so I ordered it, too.  Looking forward to its arrival!

[jmolinari]

The noma book for fermentation is pretty fantastic.

I'm going to try the beer vinegar with teh additional of the Bragg's to get it going. Subsequent batches can use the beer vinegar as the starter making the cider vinegar flavor less dominating.

Per the noma fermentation book i'll be using an aquarium bubbler to super speed up the fermention from alcohol to acid.

 

PS: i'm surprised beer has enough alcohol. The noma book mentions targeting about 8% alcohol for vinegar production. Beer is around 5. Wonder if i should "goose" it with some everclear to get to 8%

 

[Martin Fisher]

7 minutes ago, jmolinari said:

....i'll be using an aquarium bubbler to super speed up the fermention from alcohol to acid.

 

 

Yes, definitely. It's what I often do.

If you could to a beer blend—many malt liquors are ~8% alcohol.

 

[jmolinari]

2 minutes ago, DiggingDogFarm said:

 

 

Yes, definitely. It's what I often do.

If you could to a beer blend—many malt liquors are ~8% alcohol.

 

 

thanks. I'll start a batch tonight. I have an overabundance of delicious IPAs. I'll adjust to 8% alc using everclear for neutral flavor. Looking forward to what flavors remain after acidifications!

Question....how do you know when the vinegar is "done". Is it possible to over-ferment it? I presume no, since once the alcohol is consumed and turned to acetic acid it'll just sit there?

Normally with a bubbler how long does it take your base to become vinegar and what temp are you keeping it at?

 

thanks

 

[Martin Fisher]

51 minutes ago, jmolinari said:

Question....how do you know when the vinegar is "done".

 

It's possible to do a titration to determine the percentage of acetic acid, but it's usually not necessary—I don't do it.

The only time you need to be really careful with the percentage of acid is if you're using the vinegar for shelf stable preservation.

You can usually easily tell when it's become sufficiently acidic for common use.

If it easily dissolves egg shell, it's become quite acidic.

 

52 minutes ago, jmolinari said:

Is it possible to over-ferment it? I presume no, since once the alcohol is consumed and turned to acetic acid it'll just sit there?

 

You can't really over ferment it, but there's no reason to ferment it beyond what's absolutely necessary, of course.

 

52 minutes ago, jmolinari said:

Normally with a bubbler how long does it take your base to become vinegar and what temp are you keeping it at?

 

Depends.

It varies.

A week to two weeks usually.

Temperature, 80 to 85 degrees Fahrenheit.

 

HTH

 

[Martin Fisher]

@jmolinari Check the temperature of the vinegar as it ferments.

There will be some evaporative cooling due to the aeration.

[jmolinari]

12 minutes ago, DiggingDogFarm said:

@jmolinari Check the temperature of the vinegar as it ferments.

There will be some evaporative cooling due to the aeration.

 

That's interesting. That may be why my last batch took about 3 weeks in a room at 70 deg. F, even with aeration!

hadn't thought of that, thank you

 

[TicTac]

Well...got 2kg of organic green cabbage, sliced thin, measured out 8 tsp of salt and went to packing the heck out of it into a glass jar.  I placed a large leaf on top and a plastic bag of brine on top - cloth to cover the opening and an elastic band.

[Martin Fisher]

13 minutes ago, TicTac said:

Well...got 2kg of organic green cabbage, sliced thin, measured out 8 tsp of salt and went to packing the heck out of it into a glass jar.

 

FWIW,

To make packing easier and because I don't like to pound the cabbage.

I salt it and the keep it in the fridge in a non-reactive container, overnight, stirring it a few times.

That will make it MUCH easier to pack in to the jars!

 

ETA: Or, I compress it, in pouches, with the chamber sealer. 

Edited January 15, 2019 by DiggingDogFarm (log)

[TicTac]

Smart idea.

 

I will try that next time - I was unsure if exposure to any air was a bad thing. 

 

I could see water starting to fill the tiny gaps already when I put it downstairs.

 

How long do you typically let it ferment for?

 

 

[kayb]

44 minutes ago, DiggingDogFarm said:

 

 

ETA: Or, I compress it, in pouches, with the chamber sealer. 

 

 

Now, that brings up a question. Could one leave vac-sealed packages in room temp and would they ferment? Obviously one would have to pin-prick the bag so the co₂ could escape.

 

I let mine go 30 days before I taste. I've gone as long as six weeks.

Edited January 15, 2019 by kayb
to add answer to question. (log)

[THS]

4 minutes ago, kayb said:

Now, that brings up a question. Could one leave vac-sealed packages in room temp and would they ferment? Obviously one would have to pin-prick the bag so the co₂ could escape.

Yes you can do that. Noma does that in the book for most lactic fermented foods. Just keep enough space to cut it open and reseal it to taste/degas the bag.

I've personally also done miso in a vacuum bag some time ago.

[Martin Fisher]

3 minutes ago, kayb said:

Now, that brings up a question. Could one leave vac-sealed packages in room temp and would they ferment? Obviously one would have to pin-prick the bag so the co₂ could escape.

 

That's something I haven't tried.

I know they'll definitely expand and leak or pop without the hole, of course! LOL

It would probably be a good idea to keep the pinhole submerged in brine.

I may give it a try sometime.