New Toy: Breville/Polyscience Control Freak!

[ocd]

Doing a bit of math:

Heat_capacity_water * mass * change_temperature / power = time

4.18J/g/K * 2000g * 75K / 1800W = 350 seconds = 5.8 minutes

 

This is assuming everything is 100 percent efficient. I'd say you're doing okay.

 

[CanadianHomeChef]

4 hours ago, Foodie from Boston said:

Greetings fellow cooks and foodies,

First of all, Thank You All Very Much for starting this thread and sharing tons of helpful info - it inspired me to pull the trigger on the Control Freak, so I ordered it from Sur La Table (it was on sale) and it arrived this Monday! 

 

Happy to report that it does work with my Scanpan CS+ 10 piece cookware set (CS+ is their latest non-stick line exclusive to SLT) - at the same time, I never managed to bring water to boil in "under 2 minutes" as several online reviewers have claimed.

With my unit, 0.75 liter (about 3 cups) in a 2qt saucepan takes about 4 minutes to boil, and 2 liters take a full 6.5 minutes - that's with the lid closed, Intensity set to Fast and the temperature knob cranked up to max (482F).

 

My first thought was that perhaps the unit is not drawing enough power so I tried different outlets, and then I measured wattage with my WeMo smart plug - it hovered around 1800 W as per CF specifications. I then tried a different cookware (Staub Perfect Pan - enameled cast iron), and got similar timing with similar amounts of water. By the way, pan probe temp at boiling point is much higher than water temp, 270F vs. 212F - is this normal?

 

Question to other lucky CF owners - are you getting similar results with your cookware or is it noticeably faster than 4 minutes for 3 cups of water? If it's not too much trouble, perhaps you could run a quick test and share how long it takes your CF to boil X amount of water in Y cookware? Hopefully the difference is in the cookware - although my $1k Scanpan CS+ set is not eligible for return anymore, at least if I know what cookware works better I could buy a pan or two just for when I need a faster boil. If it is the unit itself then it should be eligible for replacement - or maybe it just needs the latest firmware? (slim chances I know). I also submitted a support ticket with Breville Support (online chat wasn't available), will report back as soon as I hear anything.

 

Thanks a lot in advance!

John.

 

Just tested mine. 

 

3 cups of water:

3 minutes to start boiling in my 1 quart calphalon triply. 3.5 minutes until full rolling boil. It’s pretty close to the top so I don’t think I’d ever boil this much water in such a small pan.

 

3.5 minutes to start boiling in All Clad 2 quart. 4 minutes until full boil. 

 

Ive seen my heavier pans go to about 230 when boiling water. But it’ll usually start full boiling around 212. I think the pan just gets a bit hotter before the water temp has a chance to regulate it. 

 

I find pan control to be close enough for many applications where I want to control the contents. However if I’m using a smaller pan (like my 1 quart) I have to make sure to not use full intensity or else there’ll be a large overshoot. Overshoot is minimal with my larger pans. 

[Foodie from Boston]

Great, thanks so much @ocd and @CanadianHomeChef - this was very helpful, I feel so much better now!  

[CanadianHomeChef]

That being said, one of the great things about the Control Freak is that you can heat water to something that won’t over boil and then walk away. Turn it up to a full boil when your ready. 

 

The only time I find myself wanting a more powerful unit is when boiling large quantities of water for spaghetti (4 quarts in an 8 quart pot). I know I can use a lot less water, but I’m a traditionalist 😂

[CanadianHomeChef]

1 minute ago, Foodie from Boston said:

Great, thanks so much @ocd and @CanadianHomeChef - this was very helpful, I feel so much better now!  

Not a problem. Hope you stick around! Not a lot of owners of this unit on the interwebs and it’s nice to collaborate. 

 

Unfortunately I don’t get to play with my two as often as I want as I’m a new teacher with a crushing work load. Hope to experiment and share a lot this summer 

[Foodie from Boston]

11 minutes ago, CanadianHomeChef said:

That being said, one of the great things about the Control Freak is that you can heat water to something that won’t over boil and then walk away. Turn it up to a full boil when your ready. 

 

Thanks - that's a great tip! 

 

11 minutes ago, CanadianHomeChef said:

The only time I find myself wanting a more powerful unit is when boiling large quantities of water for spaghetti (4 quarts in an 8 quart pot). I know I can use a lot less water, but I’m a traditionalist 😂

Yes, I thought about that too!  When I get home tonight I will test my electric kettle to see if maybe it boils water a little faster or at least at the same speed so I can divide and conquer (e.g. pour 2 quarts into each and once they start boiling combine them in CF). This should help if I'm in a time crunch (hungry guests etc )

 

23 minutes ago, CanadianHomeChef said:

Not a problem. Hope you stick around! Not a lot of owners of this unit on the interwebs and it’s nice to collaborate. 

Thanks - absolutely! I really like this community, and I appreciate the support and inspiration I've gotten so far - will do my best to give back and contribute.

 

24 minutes ago, CanadianHomeChef said:

Unfortunately I don’t get to play with my two as often as I want as I’m a new teacher with a crushing work load. Hope to experiment and share a lot this summer 

I can totally relate to that - my lady and I both work crazy hours and we rarely have the energy to cook something serious when we get home. We do like to cook on the weekends though - will try to keep track and share once we come up with something interesting.

 

[JeanneCake]

For what it's worth, I got an email from Williams Sonoma today announcing they have it on sale for $1499.  It's still an outrageous price; but better than the $1799 it usually retails for.

[JeanneCake]

And, it will allow the 20% professional chef's discount which brings it to $1200.  So now my question for those of you who own one becomes, is this worth it?  I'm thinking that from a reputable dealer (Williams Sonoma), the price won't get any lower and I'm not likely to chase around on eBay or other auction sites for one because I don't have that kind of time.

It's backordered and won't ship til May but is the price point worth it?

[ElsieD]

@Foodie from Boston  I just did the test as well, once in a lagostina pan, the other in an all-clad.  The lagostina took 3 minutes, 4 seconds, the All-Clad 3 minutes 38 seconds.

[Foodie from Boston]

Great, thanks @ElsieD for helping out with the research! So far it looks like time-to-boil varies from pan to pan (to be expected due to the different amount/characteristics of ferromagnetic material used), although they all seem to be in the same ballpark, and most importantly my timings are not far off, so I'm keeping the unit!  Thanks everyone for your contribution

 

P.S. By the way, turns out I misspoke when I said it takes 6.5 minutes to bring 2 liters of water to a full boil - it's actually about 9 minutes in my 2.75 qt Scanpan (with the lid on and target temp fully cranked up to max). Still, I think it's in the same ballpark with @ocd's calculations - I adjusted them a little bit (used 4.2kJ / kg*K as water heat capacity since it varies slightly from 4.183 to 4.220 from 0 to 100 C), delta Temp is 85K in my case (cold tap water was 60F or 15C), which gives us 397 seconds (or 6.6 minutes), but that's assuming 100% efficiency as @ocd pointed out. According to Wikipedia, US D.O.E. conducted new studies in 2013 and 2014 which found that induction efficiency (percentage of the energy consumed by a cooker that have been transferred as heat to a standardized aluminum test block) is only about 72% on average (and not 84% as it was previously thought). Divide 397 by 0.72 and voila - 551 seconds or 9.19 minutes! I also found an article with a video on Eater.com where they are doing a similar test with bringing 2 liters of water to a full boil - and it takes them about 11 minutes (granted, with an open pot - going to re-do my test with no lid and see if I get the same result).

 

 

[Foodie from Boston]

1 hour ago, JeanneCake said:

It's backordered and won't ship til May

Try Sur La Table - this is where I bought mine from, at the same price point ($1,499). Unfortunately, Sur La Table doesn't stack their discounts (I also had a couple of 20% coupons from them - ironically, it would have been slightly cheaper if I bought the unit at full price $1,800 with a 20% discount haha), but I think you're right that it may be at its lowest.

 

1 hour ago, JeanneCake said:

is the price point worth it?

That's a great question (and highly subjective of course /CaptainObviousModeOff>) Before I pulled the trigger, I spent about a week reading various reviews (and re-reading this thread several times 😜), at which point I realized I've become a little obsessed and figured if I'm spending so much time researching it I should just buy the damn thing 😎 (your mileage may vary)

[Foodie from Boston]

7 hours ago, Foodie from Boston said:

I also found an article with a video on Eater.com where they are doing a similar test with bringing 2 liters of water to a full boil - and it takes them about 11 minutes (granted, with an open pot - going to re-do my test with no lid and see if I get the same result).

 

JFYI - heated 2L (~2 quarts) from 50F to a full boil (212F) with no lid in 10 and a half minutes - very  close to 10’55” in the video. 

 

I’m guessing those reviewers who managed to get water boiling in less than 2 minutes either used much less water (e.g. 1 - 1.5 cups), or it was warmer to begin with, or both.

[boilsover]

11 hours ago, Foodie from Boston said:

 

JFYI - heated 2L (~2 quarts) from 50F to a full boil (212F) with no lid in 10 and a half minutes - very  close to 10’55” in the video. 

 

I’m guessing those reviewers who managed to get water boiling in less than 2 minutes either used much less water (e.g. 1 - 1.5 cups), or it was warmer to begin with, or both.

 

Try boiling 4 liters of cold tap water on any of these 1500/1800W induction hotplates (about what I use for boiling pasta), and you are in for a long, frustrating experience.

 

I just timed 1L to boil on a fairly wimpy gas hob... 2:52

[Foodie from Boston]

1 hour ago, boilsover said:

I just timed 1L to boil on a fairly wimpy gas hob... 2:52

 

yep, and my electric kettle did 0.75L in 2-something minutes (vs. 4 on the CF). I'm guessing all these "omg look how fast it is" reviews were comparing CF to an old electric range or something. A little disappointing, but at least now I know it's normal and the unit itself is not defective (at least not in this regard lol).

[eugenep]

22 hours ago, JeanneCake said:

For what it's worth, I got an email from Williams Sonoma today announcing they have it on sale for $1499.  It's still an outrageous price; but better than the $1799 it usually retails for.

yeah - found the same price on JB Prince recently and I bought mine from Amazon for that same price a month ago. 

 

It seems like all the retailers are lowering their price all in unison (maybe in response to each other's price cutting??) 

 

Hmmm...I know that sometimes the legal contract between manufacturer (Breville) and retailer (Williams Sonoma) requires retailers to sell at a certain price and can't give discounts 

 

Maybe - just a guess - Breville permitted the sale to retailers under their distribution contracts?? 

 

(but it could be price competition??) 

 

just my guesses 

[boilsover]

3 hours ago, Foodie from Boston said:

 

yep, and my electric kettle did 0.75L in 2-something minutes (vs. 4 on the CF). I'm guessing all these "omg look how fast it is" reviews were comparing CF to an old electric range or something. A little disappointing, but at least now I know it's normal and the unit itself is not defective (at least not in this regard lol).

 

I'll try 1L in the same pan on a coil.  I don't expect it'll be a lot slower.

[Anna N]

  The times being quoted here seemed so off to me that I had to try it for myself. I know if I turn my back my water boils.  

 

I just boiled 1 L of water in under two minutes on my low-end GE profile induction range.  I was able to bring it to a fall and rolling boil in that time.

Edited March 2, 2019 by Anna N
Extraneous word (log)

[CanadianHomeChef]

2 hours ago, Anna N said:

  The times being quoted here seemed so off to me that I had to try it for myself. I know if I turn my back my water boils.  

 

I just boiled 1 L of water in under two minutes on my low-end GE profile induction range.  I was able to bring it to a fall and rolling boil in that time.

 

Makes sense. A ton more wattage on a full sized range. I think my timing is similar to yours on my Kenmore Induction.

 

Overall preheating pans for searing and other applications take relatively little time on the CF. But speed isn’t the reason I have it out. It’s precision. The only time I find myself wishing it was a little faster is for large volumes that need boiling. 

 

Actuallly I find the convince of precision often outweighs speed. For example, I want to warm up a soup but not boil it. I can set the CF to 190ish and do other things (take a shower, put a load of laundry away, etc) without worrying that it’ll boil away. 

[boilsover]

6 hours ago, CanadianHomeChef said:

For example, I want to warm up a soup but not boil it. I can set the CF to 190ish and do other things (take a shower, put a load of laundry away, etc) without worrying that it’ll boil away.  

 

Well, you can retherm soup on a $75 PIC with bad temperature control, too.  It's where you need, e.g., 193F (and 189 and 198 won't do) that precision control would be nice.  Have you plugged the Control Freak into a watt meter to see whether the draw is constant?  And how often does the software sample the temp?

 

My new Panasonic all-metal induction hob has 10F temperature granularity and is pretty accurate with pans that have SS's emissivity.  I haven't felt any need for finer control than that. 

[Foodie from Boston]

12 hours ago, boilsover said:

Have you plugged the Control Freak into a watt meter to see whether the draw is constant?

 

I did - it was relatively constant (1800 +/-20 Watt) while CF was heating up a pot of water.

 

Agree with @CanadianHomeChef that the main advantage is precision, not speed.

 

We made some crepes yesterday on both CF (using newly bought induction-friendly Staub cast iron crepe pan) and a regular nonstick pan on a gas range, side by side. CF took longer, yes - but we could leave it unattended for the most part. Dialed pan temp to 285F (according to the chart on Breville’s website), did a quick “test crepe” to measure the times with a count-up timer, then set countdown timers for 6 minutes on one side and 4 more on the other side, so it took about 10 minutes per crepe (plus turning and pouring). The regular pan on a gas burner set to medium was roughly twice as fast (it was also smaller so not an apples to apples comparison), but we had to constantly monitor it and almost burned a crepe once (luckily noticed the smell and quickly took it off before it was too late). Sorry I forgot the pictures - the ones made on CF turned out to be slightly less brown (could have increased the temperature or the timing I guess), the taste was the same as far as we could tell. Did anyone else try crepes or pancakes? What was your target temp / time per side?

 

P.S. I also tried to measure internal temperature of the crepes with a Thermapen and it showed around 200 - which is probably off as it wasn’t thick enough for the sensor to get fully submerged. Will order another one with an integrated IR thermometer from Thermaworks soon. 

Edited March 3, 2019 by Foodie from Boston (log)

[Foodie from Boston]

13 hours ago, boilsover said:

And how often does the software sample the temp?

 

According to Breville’s website, 20 times per second. 

[CanadianHomeChef]

3 hours ago, Foodie from Boston said:

 

I did - it was relatively constant (1800 +/-20 Watt) while CF was heating up a pot of water.

 

Agree with @CanadianHomeChef that the main advantage is precision, not speed.

 

We made some crepes yesterday on both CF (using newly bought induction-friendly Staub cast iron crepe pan) and a regular nonstick pan on a gas range, side by side. CF took longer, yes - but we could leave it unattended for the most part. Dialed pan temp to 285F (according to the chart on Breville’s website), did a quick “test crepe” to measure the times with a count-up timer, then set countdown timers for 6 minutes on one side and 4 more on the other side, so it took about 10 minutes per crepe (plus turning and pouring). The regular pan on a gas burner set to medium was roughly twice as fast (it was also smaller so not an apples to apples comparison), but we had to constantly monitor it and almost burned a crepe once (luckily noticed the smell and quickly took it off before it was too late). Sorry I forgot the pictures - the ones made on CF turned out to be slightly less brown (could have increased the temperature or the timing I guess), the taste was the same as far as we could tell. Did anyone else try crepes or pancakes? What was your target temp / time per side?

 

P.S. I also tried to measure internal temperature of the crepes with a Thermapen and it showed around 200 - which is probably off as it wasn’t thick enough for the sensor to get fully submerged. Will order another one with an integrated IR thermometer from Thermaworks soon. 

 

 

Just checked my programs. I haven’t made crepes yet but I have pancakes set at 332F. I think I got to that number from a Breville video or website as it’s one of the first things I cooked on my unit. 

 

At that temp I get a nice brown. I cook 2 minutes per side. Without oil one or the sides gets really brown. The other side is paler, probably because of lack of surface contact due to a distorted shape. This is solved with a little bit of fat, but I actually just cook it in no fat and have the good side facing up. Then drizzle it in butter of course.

[Foodie from Boston]

3 hours ago, CanadianHomeChef said:

I have pancakes set at 332F

 

Thanks - will try crepes at this temp and report back, 285F works but takes a little too long

[CanadianHomeChef]

4 hours ago, Foodie from Boston said:

 

Thanks - will try crepes at this temp and report back, 285F works but takes a little too long

I just remembered that Elsie sent me some PDF recipes that came from TesTek, Canada’s official Control Freak supplier. In the crepe recipe, they say 350 at high intensity for 25 seconds a side. Makes sense since they are so thin. 

 

If you PM me your email, I can send you the PDFs. 

[ocd]

23 hours ago, CanadianHomeChef said:

 

Just checked my programs. I haven’t made crepes yet but I have pancakes set at 332F. I think I got to that number from a Breville video or website as it’s one of the first things I cooked on my unit. 

 

At that temp I get a nice brown. I cook 2 minutes per side. Without oil one or the sides gets really brown. The other side is paler, probably because of lack of surface contact due to a distorted shape. This is solved with a little bit of fat, but I actually just cook it in no fat and have the good side facing up. Then drizzle it in butter of course.

 

The Control Freak temperature chart puts 248-275F for pancakes. Your temperature and timing seem to come from this PolyScience video: