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paulraphael

Coffee Ice Cream

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Have you tried a "Philadelphia" version?

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Posted (edited)

no need to race.   its fine to use ' cool '

 

I put a double espresso in my standard brownie mix ( Betty's )   

 

and one can tell.

 

I agree lighter roasts have more aromatics , but you are seriously attenuating them w cream.

 

darker roasts , not burnt , have more ' coffee ' flavor for me and less  ' mud ' flavor

 

to each their own.


Edited by rotuts (log)

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4 minutes ago, weinoo said:

You might like this thread from home-barista.com...

 

Italian Like Espresso from Third Wave Roasters

 

Interesting read. That mostly fits my experience in Rome a couple of years ago, where the espressos were all good, but had a bit more of a "comfort shot" feel than what I get at the best US coffee shops these days. Not dark roasts, but a little darker. More emphasis on base coffee notes and toasted flavors. More mellow than bright.

 

The thing is, the dairy and sugar in ice cream mutes the brighter notes, so all coffee gets pushed in the direction of mellower, sweeter, toastier. The challege is if you want the brighter flavors and aromatics ... you need to start with bright beans and use an extraction method that might lead to a too-bright cup of coffee. 

 

I wouldn't put add sherry vinegar to my morning cup of joe, for that matter.

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I haven't yet read your blog post (I promise, I will), but did you experiment with extraction temps for the coffee ice cream?  Like I wonder what would happen if you used the dairy in a french press or for pour over.

 

Some temps give you more brightness, whereas others give you more, well, darkness, don't they?

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39 minutes ago, weinoo said:

I haven't yet read your blog post (I promise, I will), but did you experiment with extraction temps for the coffee ice cream?  Like I wonder what would happen if you used the dairy in a french press or for pour over.

 

Some temps give you more brightness, whereas others give you more, well, darkness, don't they?

 

Yes, many experiments with temperature and time. Things were a little different than brewing into water, partly because there are other ingredients affecting flavor perception, and possibly because the solubility of many compounds into fat is different than into water. I got the best results with a temperature that's 4°C hotter than what I like for press pot coffee.

 

The way I'm extracting is very much like using a press pot, only it's sealed, to keep the aromatics in, and I chill it before opening and straining. It wastes a ziploc bag, and gives you a strainer to clean, but otherwise isn't more work than making coffee. 

 

You got me thinking that maybe intead of using a chinois (which takes about 10 minutes to fully strain everything) I could pour the brewed mix into my press pot and strain with the plunger. 

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20 minutes ago, paulraphael said:

You got me thinking that maybe intead of using a chinois (which takes about 10 minutes to fully strain everything) I could pour the brewed mix into my press pot and strain with the plunger. 

 

Yes - and I'm also wondering if a little bit of coffee solids, but very finely ground (like powder), not brewed and put directly into the ice cream mixture, might not give you some more flavor?

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Are you trying to figure out how to get similar results more economically? I'm not trying to get any more flavor than it already has. It's pretty intense.

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Posted (edited)

Me? No - I'm just trying to help you!

 

I've got the most economical results in both time and effort - I'll be at your place at 7!


Edited by weinoo (log)
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I've made several versions now with different coffees. It's striking how the origin quality of the coffee comes through the ice cream. Right now there's a batch in the freezer made with Stumptown Ethiopia Duromina, and one made with Long Miles Coffee Burundi Gishubi natural process, roasted by my friend at a local coffee shop. The difference is night and day. The first is like  cocoa, caramel, and blood oranges. The second is like blackberries, blackberries, and more blackberries. 

 

I stopped by the shop last week for a quick espresso, and they pulled me one of the best shots I'd had in my life. It was the blackberry-bomb from Burundi. The owner happened to walk in, I told him how much ass the espresso kicked, and he said, "come back tonight, the producer is giving a talk." I came back with a pint of Ethiopian Stumptown ice cream. The shop owner and the guy from Long Miles flipped out that they could really taste the coffee. The Long Miles guy ate the whole thing. They gave me 100g of the Burundian natural process, which went into the next batch. 

 

Next experiment will probably something from Indonesia, just for something entirely different. This project is turning me into a coffee nut.

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Posted (edited)

Paul the way I designed mine for the restaurant was by combining a coffee bitters we we're doing for the cocktail bar, ground/mildly roasted coffee beans steeped into the milk overnight and the darkhan from nespresso.

The three combined gave me the punch, the subelty and the aromatic notes that only a bitter can extract from the coffee beans.

Coffee is a world so extense that turning it into an icecream is very amusing because to be honest, is there even a right answer when designing a coffee icecream?

 


Edited by Vasco (log)

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Started with  the coffee caramel ice cream recipe from Chez Panisse Desserts

every variable tweaked and refined. Some additions. 

The first time you make this, you should consider halving the recipe, in order to have some practice making the caramel

Hardware

Whisk, digital thermometer, large heavy pot, wire mesh strainer, ice creammaker (i prefer the cheapo Hamilton Beach model, yes i've tried many)

Software:

1 pound bag of Stumptown Sumatran Whole beans

2 cups of organic cane sugar (Costco)

1/2 gallon of extra heavy whipping cream (Darigold 40%, Costco)

12 egg yolks

Mexican vanilla extract

Kahlua Liquor

rock salt

ice

 

RECIPE:

add 1/2 cup of water, 2 cups sugar to large heavy pot, mix continuously and cook over high heat until you form a light caramel (this is not easy)

remove from heat and CAREFULLY add 1/2 cup of warm water. this will violently splatter, so be careful (this is dangerous)

stir until  caramel mostly dissolved, ok to add a little more water if needed.

add cream and whole beans to pot

warm mixture to 175-185 degrees stirring constantly (to further dissolve caramel) for 90 minutes. 

strain out coffee beans and discard

whisk egg yolks in a separate bowl, temper with coffee infused cream, and add back into pot stirring continuously.

continue to stir and heat mixture to 175-180 degrees for 15-20 minutes - should thicken considerably 

strain into a container

add 2 tablespoons of Kahlua

add 2 teaspoons of vanilla extract

stir

refrigerate overnite.

Make your ice cream.

Put into containers and freeze overnite.

 

The use of 100% cream and fantastic Sumatran beans makes for amazingly rich and flavorful ice cream. 

The Kahlua and caramel boost the coffee flavor even more.

 

i serve one scoop of this in an espresso cup, with an espresso spoon.

Its insanely rich, and well caffeinated.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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@Heartsurgeon, where are you getting your vanilla extract? Is it something like Nielson-Massey Mexican extract from the Mexican strain of beans? Or, just some stuff you got from Mexico? If it's the latter, you should probably read up on it and be very careful about feeding any foods you make with it to people other than yourself.

 

" Don’t be tempted by those large, cheap bottles of vanilla available in most gift shops in border towns. They don’t contain real vanilla extract, and they may contain something that could hurt you. That “something” is coumarin, an extract of the tonka bean that imparts to synthetic vanillin an intense vanilla aroma and thus makes it smell like the real thing. Coumarin was banned as food additive in the U.S. in 1940 because of moderate toxicity to the human liver and kidneys. It is listed by that agency among “Substances Generally Prohibited from Direct Addition or Use as Human Food.”

Beware, therefore, “bargain” Mexican vanilla. Double check bottles very carefully to ensure that you are purchasing pure vanilla, and if a deal on the extract strikes you as too good to be true, pass it by. "

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4 hours ago, Heartsurgeon said:

 

The first time you make this, you should consider halving the recipe, in order to have some practice making the caramel

 

add 1/2 cup of water, 2 cups sugar to large heavy pot, mix continuously and cook over high heat until you form a light caramel (this is not easy)

 


Are those warnings from the book or your own? Just curious because it seems a bit excessive. The only difficulty involved with caramelizing sugar is turning away from it at the wrong moment and burning it or getting it darker than you wanted. Even that is given some leeway through most of the process by the addition of the water. When most of the water has cooked out and it starts getting thick and bubbling more slowly, back that recommended high heat off some and that will buy you even more time to decide if it's where you want it before it goes past.  Nothing about making ice cream requires a difficulty warning but I'd argue that, if I was forced to give one, making a good custard base is higher in difficulty than caramelizing sugar. Especially with a light caramel where you're not taking it up to the edge of going from caramel to burnt. Not trying to be negative towards your post, I've just always felt it's better to instill confidence than worry or fear when teaching somebody how to cook something.

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9 hours ago, Heartsurgeon said:

add 1/2 cup of water, 2 cups sugar to large heavy pot, mix continuously and cook over high heat until you form a light caramel (this is not easy)

 

Agree with @Tri2Cook, I find the advantage of making a wet caramel to be NOT needing to stir continuously. My method is mix sugar and water, cook without stirring over pretty high heat, once it starts to color, turn the heat down and swirl the pan until you get even, desired darkness. 

 

But yes, do be very careful when adding liquid, both the steam and the splatters can burn your skin. 

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16 hours ago, Vasco said:

Coffee is a world so extense that turning it into an icecream is very amusing because to be honest, is there even a right answer when designing a coffee icecream?

 

There's never just one right answer, but I found it surprisingly challenging to answer a more specific question: how can I get the full, thee-dimensional flavor profile of a single-origin coffee into ice cream? How can I get the kinds of intense flavor sensations I get from a one-in-a-hundred, brilliant espresso shot from a master barista? This is something I'd never experienced before. 

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10 hours ago, Heartsurgeon said:

The use of 100% cream and fantastic Sumatran beans makes for amazingly rich and flavorful ice cream. 

The Kahlua and caramel boost the coffee flavor even more.

 

 

I'd suggest that the 100% cream and the coffee are fighting each other. Milk fat mutes coffee flavor, softening any brightness and slowing its release. 

To get all the flavor I was looking for, I started with my typical 15% milk fat and ended up backing down all the way to 10%. The creamy body comes from lots of milk solids, which don't mute the flavors anywhere near as much as fat.

I'd also suggest that with proper extraction, you get so much natural caramel flavor out of most coffee beans that you'd only want to add actual caramel if you were going for something along the lines of caramel latte.

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Posted (edited)

I'm sorry I posted my ice cream recipe. I didn't know I was such a bad person.

 

Mexican vanilla extract 

It's heartening to know we have a HACCP instructor reviewing posts.

Yes, the warnings are from the Chez Panisse Dessert book, and confirmed by my own experience. The book had an even more explicit warning.

Making a good custard base is trivial if you use a digital thermometer, and even easier if you do it sous vide.

Thomas Keller (page 251,  Under Pressure) has simplified custards bases to heating in a sous vide bag at 179.6-185 degrees for 20 minutes.  

I assume the time was selected at least in part, to assure his base was pasteurized. It works great (personal experience).  I didn't list the sous vide approach, as not everyone has the equipment.

 

 

With regards the 100% cream selection, I tried a variety of bases with varying ratios of whole milk, half&half and cream.

I selected the ratio that gave me the mouth feel and flavor I thought was best

 I tried the ice cream with/without caramel.

In the end I agreed with the statement in the Chez Panisse Dessert book:

"This is a more richly flavored variation of coffee ice cream"

 

The recipe represents my personal preference for flavor and mouth feel. 

I did make one batch using wood roasted beans that I thought was terrible, but someone else loved!

To each his own.

 

Hope that helps.


Edited by Heartsurgeon added commentary (log)

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I wasn't suggesting making a custard is difficult, I was suggesting that caramelizing sugar is no more difficult than making a custard. The spattering caused by adding a liquid to the hot sugar is worthy of a warning, that's why I didn't mention it. But the "do a half batch to practice first" and "it's not easy" warnings are over-the-top in my opinion. There's no more or less difficulty in doing that batch full size vs. half size so it was an odd suggestion to me. I wasn't criticizing you posting it, I was just curious if they were warnings from the book. But the first reaction that seems to come from every question or criticism lately is for the person being responded to to say they're taking their ball and going home. When I post something here, I want to hear what others have to say, not what they think I want to hear. I guess I assumed that was universal.

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I appreciate the journey that paulrapael is embarked on.

I assume he is is a coffee lover, with the goal of capturing the varietal essence of his favorite coffees in a ice cream form. A noble effort!

My recipe reflects my goals. 

That recipe results in a intensely rich, flavorful ice cream, that maintains an unctuous mouth feel  when stored in the freezer. 

In my experience, with less than 100% cream in the base,  frozen ice creams will develop a grainy mouth feel as ice crystals gradually form.

If you consume your ice cream over s short period of time, this is less of a concern.

 

If your primary goal is clarity of subtle coffee flavors, without imparting other flavors, than it makes sense to leave out caramel, leave out Kahlua, vanilla, reduce cream content.

However  in my experience, the mouth feel of such an ice cream will degrade more rapidly once frozen and stored.

 

I have only made caramel for this ice cream, using the technique from the Chez Panisse Dessert book. I found making a large batch with that technique much more difficult than a smaller batch.

It looks like there may be an easier way to make it, and I'm grateful for that information.

 

In my life, I've rarely found opinions useful.

First hand experience however, is invaluable.

That's what I look for.

That's why i posted a recipe.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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20 minutes ago, Heartsurgeon said:

I have only made caramel for this ice cream, using the technique from the Chez Panisse Dessert book. I found making a large batch with that technique much more difficult than a smaller batch.

It looks like there may be an easier way to make it, and I'm grateful for that information.

 

 

Oh, caramel can definitely be tricky, and people swear by vastly different techniques - clearly!  I'm actually really surprised that stirring wet caramel did not make it crystallize.  Usually you stir a dry caramel constantly, but that's why I don't make dry caramel :) 

 

Wet caramel should be easier to scale up, and constant stirring is not required - you only need to make sure all the sugar is damp and there are no dry crystals on the side, then stir or swirl once it starts to color.  (Or at least that is what works for me).  Sometimes I caramelize a cup of sugar, sometimes it's 4lb, the only difference is a bigger pot and it takes a little longer.  You do want to be sure the pot is big enough to contain the violent eruption of adding liquid, that'll help with both safety and clean-up.  Allow room for at least tripling in volume, ideally more.

 

Have fun!

 

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57 minutes ago, Heartsurgeon said:

In my experience, with less than 100% cream in the base,  frozen ice creams will develop a grainy mouth feel as ice crystals gradually form.

If you consume your ice cream over s short period of time, this is less of a concern.

 

There are many ways to get a creamy mouthfeel and freedom from ice crystals that don't require a 100% cream base, or even a 50% cream base. Milk fat is actually less effective at suppressing ice crystals than milk solids, and neither can compete with hydrocolloids, which work their magic in minute quantities. 

 

When you're no longer dependent on the cream for texture, you have the freedom use it purely for its effect on flavor. Some flavors work better with high fats than others. A high-fat vanilla or caramel flavor works well. Fruit flavors (in my opinion) lose some of their mojo unless the fat level comes down. High milk fat chocolate ice cream is just lousy. And for coffee ... it really depends on if you want a latte or a macchiato. I've never had a latte in my life and don't plan on it. 

 

I'm more biassed than many people against high milk fat ice creams. For me 15% or 16% is a nice point for flavors that play well with fat. I find 18% fat cloying, and 30% gross. 

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47 minutes ago, Heartsurgeon said:

 

In my life, I've rarely found opinions useful.

First hand experience however, is invaluable.

 


Opinions may not be as useful as experience but educated opinions can be very useful. Brainstorming is the tossing out of ideas and opinions based on experience and/or knowledge and often leads to all kinds of solved problems and new discoveries. I wasn't offering opinion regarding the caramel though. I based everything I said on experience. But the theme of the discussion is coffee ice cream which is what you posted about so if you're agreeable, we'll pretend I never mentioned the caramel and get on with the show. If you ever find yourself in a small remote town in far northern Ontario, I'll buy you a beer and we'll argue the difficulties of caramelizing sugar. :D

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9 minutes ago, Heartsurgeon said:

lets see some recipes!

 

 

There's a link at the end of the first post in this thread. The blog series includes a few recipes, mostly to illustrate the many pages of theory. My hope is that people can use the recipes as jumping-off points. You should be able to use the ideas to tweak a recipe in whatever direction you like.

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